the thing is I'm not sure speed 2 is a problem for MC80a,c... it just floats there in the middle of the field and with its range and wide arcs can easily reach its targets without requiring too much maneuverability at all.. which is great because i can now just queue up CF commands and wreak havoc... MC80libs requires you to keep your target in your front arc, and that can be a challenge for second player lists, and of course once ships fly past you, you are no longer a threat, meanwhile they have shots at some fairly vulnerable arcs...
MC80 vs MC80
There is a lot more to this game than raw stats. I've been using it a bit lately and as a mostly Imperial player I've found the Home One style gloriously effective to play with.
Its all about the engagement geometry. An ISD has a fantastic front arc but it is locked into its line of movement. Most compentent players can outflank it by splitting up to either sides of it. (This is not to disparage the ISD - its a great ship too).
The Home One avoids this by having a MASSIVE side arc which can catch ships from almost directly ahead to almost directly behind. Moreover, this arc is easily adjustable because it if off set to your line of advance. A speed 1 move is perfect for keeping the side arc on target wth minimal risk of being outflanked. You just need a second shooter in close attendance to hose anyone that is trying to block you to the front.
....
A 105pt Liberty (Liberty + Gunnery Teams) is almost entirely equivelant to 2x Neb-Bs at 102pts...
... Both throw a combination of around 6-8 dice (reds and blues vs all reds)
... Both have Speed 3 with Engine Techs if they want it.
... Both have 2-4 Squadron activation
... Both can shoot two targets... (either through GT, or the fact that you're two ships...)
... Both have 2 Braces, and a buttload of shields up front (5 vs 3+3)..
... both are stupid fragile on the side (2 vs 1+1)
I think, if anything, the liberty is a touch more survivable with the redirect, but that's countered by the Evades...
If anything the Liberty is more straightforward, but the Nebulon is two activations....
>>>> At least, in my head, that's why I'm not liking the Liberty... I'm not feeling like they open up much new ground that I wasn't already doing.....
One of the bigger differences for me is the width of the front arc, so while there are only 2 shields at the side, it should be harder to hit them.
The Nebulons suffer a lot from this - unless they are pointing *directly* at their target, chances are that the return fire can hit their sides.
There's also the Blue dice that double the firepower as you (inevitably) get closer
The Lib is going to be a harder ship to use definitely, what with its glass cannon-esque persona and speed chart.
I dont reckon HMCs ever suffered for being speed 2 - as Ophion and Skycake emphasised, it can just gently sweep along like a trawler boat with it side arcs, hosing folks down whilst enjoying a speed 2 pleasure cruise. Doesnt take much thinking and is very useful with most of the Reb admirals.
The Lib is a bit of a madam and will require constant attention/ particular admirals etc to get the most out of it.
ah, so it's flying turd v winged turd eh?
they're not even remotely similar, so that's something
the flying turd is a ship you gotta pour love into, because the base statline is incredibly sub-par for what you're getting. It also doesn't have room for Gunnery Team despite the VSD side arcs. Offensively, it's pretty naf for its price, but it can be nicely defensive. Most of the appeal of the ship, imo, rests in its titles. Those define how you use it, basically, and I don't think you should ever take a generic flying turd
speed 2 sucks on the MC80 when trying to run around imperials, but engine techs takes care of that really easily and its broadsides help keep it in the game even when going full tilt
now the winged turd is the exact opposite, a very efficiently priced offensive ship with low defenses and titles that provide nice, esp Mon Karren, but not gameplay defining benefits. It's almost full on "plug and play", except for certain obvious admirals like Akbar or MM, whereas the flying turd has to be built around
Edited by ficklegreendiceah, so it's flying turd v winged turd eh?
I always liked Space Turd for the home one.
I guess it's the SFT
the Space-faring Turd
I want to run a list with both MC80 variants. Using the liberty to run straight at the enemy while home one is used to hem them in with its huge broadside. Don't know how it will work, but I think it would be fun.
How about this?
MC Mateys
Author: Lochlan
Faction: Rebel Alliance
Points: 400/400
Commander: General Madine
Assault Objective: Most Wanted
Defense Objective: Fire Lanes
Navigation Objective: Dangerous Territory
[ flagship ] MC80 Assault Cruiser (114 points)
- General Madine ( 30 points)
- Engine Techs ( 8 points)
- Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points)
- X17 Turbolasers ( 6 points)
= 165 total ship cost
MC80 Battle Cruiser (103 points)
- Liberty ( 3 points)
- Skilled First Officer ( 1 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- X17 Turbolasers ( 6 points)
= 120 total ship cost
GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
- Quantum Storm ( 1 points)
- Slicer Tools ( 7 points)
= 26 total ship cost
GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
- Leia Organa ( 3 points)
- Comms Net ( 2 points)
= 23 total ship cost
6 A-Wing Squadrons ( 66 points)
I like that list. I think it would be fun to play, with a decent shot at winning.
Almost every time I fly against the flying turd I manage to either stick something directly in front of its incredibly predictable path and smash its face in or if that is looking unlikely I smash it to bits with bombers it can't run away from.
Not likely to want to stick something in front of the liberty, however.
Flying turd is a vehicle for titles (as has been said before) in other words it is a gimmick humper you have to build around.
The whole 2 nebs vs 1 lib is also an interesting observation, I think the main difference is the Lib really wants to use its upgrade slots to synergize and amplify its strengths. Of course, this ends up making a tasty target, which is the balance.
I've had lots of people try to stick a raider, but the surprise 90-degree turn out of the Nav-Team usually puts end to that.
TBf, the gimmick humping abilities of the flying turd are pretty dang stellar 
Except maybe independence but I never tried it
As for winged turd v nebs, imo the nebs are just as defined by their titles as the mc80. Yavaris and Salvation are game swinging upgrades
Liberty should be easier to bring to bear than your standard nebs too, and obviously gets a lot scarier at blue dice range
Edited by ficklegreendiceEDIT: never mind, I figured it out 
I want to run a list with both MC80 variants. Using the liberty to run straight at the enemy while home one is used to hem them in with its huge broadside. Don't know how it will work, but I think it would be fun.
Thematic if you've played X-wing Alliance:
Author: Iskander4000
Faction: Rebel Alliance
Points: 400/400
Commander: Garm Bel Iblis
Assault Objective: Advanced Gunnery
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost
Navigation Objective: Superior Positions
MC80 Star Cruiser (96 points)
- Liberty ( 3 points)
- Skilled First Officer ( 1 points)
- Fighter Coordination Team ( 3 points)
- MS-1 Ion Cannons ( 2 points)
= 105 total ship cost
GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
- Bright Hope ( 2 points)
- Boosted Comms ( 4 points)
- Bomber Command Center ( 8 points)
= 32 total ship cost
[ flagship ] MC80 Command Cruiser (106 points)
- Garm Bel Iblis ( 25 points)
- Independence ( 8 points)
- Boosted Comms ( 4 points)
- Advanced Projectors ( 6 points)
= 149 total ship cost
2 X-Wing Squadrons ( 26 points)
1 Jan Ors ( 19 points)
4 B-Wing Squadrons ( 56 points)
1 YT-1300 ( 13 points)
Card view link
Fleet created with Armada Warlords
I want to run a list with both MC80 variants. Using the liberty to run straight at the enemy while home one is used to hem them in with its huge broadside. Don't know how it will work, but I think it would be fun.
Check out my Dice Dice Dice and more Dice list 
Edited by MadaghmireI want to run a list with both MC80 variants. Using the liberty to run straight at the enemy while home one is used to hem them in with its huge broadside. Don't know how it will work, but I think it would be fun.
Check out my Dice Dice Dice and more Dice list
I want to run a list with both MC80 variants. Using the liberty to run straight at the enemy while home one is used to hem them in with its huge broadside. Don't know how it will work, but I think it would be fun.
Check out my Dice Dice Dice and more Dice list
Nice!
I've been thinking about this a lot myself, and I'm not sure where I stand on it. Personally I think it's going to come down a lot on whether or not you're happier with an inexpensive but potentially fragile one-trick pony or a much pricier christmas tree that needs more love and attention. Seems kind of like the MCH needs to have a list constructed around it, whereas an MCL could just sort of slip into any list that can spare the points for it.
I've been mucking around with a list that has an MCL as a forward shooter, with an MCH that follows behind/to the side and uses Projection Experts to try and keep the Lib alive for longer. Add in a GR-75 Medium Transport and some hefty squadron support and it might work?
Completely forgot the coordination team was spoiled
With a Squadron of 4, the command variant wingless turd is utterly perfect for it
So there's another distinguishing feature
I was fully prepared to rage quit* if the Liberty wasn't speed 3
* may not actually be true
I was fully prepared to rage quit* if the Liberty wasn't speed 3
* may not actually be true
Ha. On the other end of the spectrum I was 100% convinced it was going to be speed 2.
Illegal list, you cannot have more than one modification on a given ship.
I want to run a list with both MC80 variants. Using the liberty to run straight at the enemy while home one is used to hem them in with its huge broadside. Don't know how it will work, but I think it would be fun.
Check out my Dice Dice Dice and more Dice list
Okay here is a legal version of Dice, Dice, Dice and more Dice list, (well less dice )
Home one garbage. Liberty new hotness. If a ship can't run gunnery team it's not worth running.
Such a wonderfully narrow minded view that I exploit far too often.
Home one garbage. Liberty new hotness. If a ship can't run gunnery team it's not worth running.
The top two lists at nationals disagree with you