So, considering Armada came out after X-wing, can we take design decisions from that game as a "how would ffg have handled this in X-wing in retrospect", reading how Armada does alternating activations made me wonder how X-wing would be done now, cause the PS system is quite iffy as it stands.

eh

the alternating activation and complete removal of green dice does make it an objectively better system, but they're also radically different games so there's no telling what we could actually cherry pick

apart from the complete removal of green dice, of course

In what sense do you consider the PS system iffy? You're not really giving anyone anything to go off of with your post.

Armada is more tactical. X-Wing is more dogfighting-ish. I doubt we'll see the removal of defensive dice if they ever made X-Wing version 2.... but I WOULD expect more abilities like CRACK SHOT - stuff you KNOW you have... and you have to decide exactly when to use it.

For example, ships that have an evade might not actually take an evade action... but they may start with an evade token that never leaves - until they spend it.

...apart from the complete removal of green dice, of course

But no overall Armada should give you very little to no indication of what FFG may due with a hypothetical X-wing 2.0.

Armada has different mechanics because it needs different mechanics in order to differentiate itself from X-wing. The two games will always be different in fundemental ways because FFG wants to be able to sell both games. If they were too similar one would fail.

The only thing I'd expect them to do is raise the point costs and point limit so they have more room to cost things appropriately. There's a lot of stuff that are equal in cost that just outright shouldn't be and only are because there is no 1.5pt upgrade.

I would expect different dice at the least. Whether that's separating accuracy from power or just different ships get different dice I don't know. I would also expect to see an alternating initiative. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if that came out still at some point for the current system - they have the token and everything (plus there would then be a use to the challenge coin!). Winner of init chooses who starts with it, and it alternates at the conclusion of the end phase. This would make mirror matches less dependent upon who wins the initial coin flip.

They really are entirely different games.

In what sense do you consider the PS system iffy? You're not really giving anyone anything to go off of with your post.

The binary nature of it mostly, the difference in PS doesn't really matter aside from just beating the other ships'. I seem to remember discussions on here saying as well that middling PS tends to be underwhelming cause of that.

The lack of defense dice is one of the things I don't like about Armada.

It takes a big chunk of the excitement and unpredictability out of the game, which is something I enjoy.

the alternating activation and complete removal of green dice does make it an objectively better system

You *would* say that.

The lack of defense dice is one of the things I don't like about Armada.

It takes a big chunk of the excitement and unpredictability out of the game, which is something I enjoy.

Interesting point. People psychologically enjoy rolling a complete miss LESS than rolling a hit and having the defender evade the attack completely. Same outcome, different feeling given to the attacking player.

I think it further reinforces that, like it or hate it, Armada and X-Wing are completely different games, with completely different mechanics...

Unlike (as I have read) some Nay-Sayers who have commented that X-Wing is toned down and Childish, or that Armada is just Redundant.... I believe both games have their places, and cater to different - neither better nor worse - whims...

The lack of defense dice is one of the things I don't like about Armada.

It takes a big chunk of the excitement and unpredictability out of the game, which is something I enjoy.

attack dice still exist

The only things I see FFG borrowing from Armada are things Armada shows it learned from X-Wing : build a victory system other than "table your opponent" into the game so game length can be regimented, and don't have separate rules for tournament and casual games.

Try play X-Wing with no dice. Your ships needs to be in range 1 to make damage!

Oddly enough, I'd expect surprisingly little.

Some timing and mechanic-flow cleanup, some redos on overall rules, but expect old ship bases and upgrade cards to remain relevant .

This allows backwards compatibility, but restricts just how much they can change.

Then it's likely to include, eg, a new damage deck, a suite of v2 pilot cards for various pilots with changed prices (rhymer, alpha squadron), upgrade bars (Kir Kanos, Horton Salm), and updated abilities (Xizor), or complete rewrite (Fels Wrath ).

It might also have a very select scattering of rewritten upgrade cards (blaster turret and bodyguard, for example)... bit don't expect complete rule changes that obsolete old collections or old ships beyond those particular pilots, note a change to the fundamental business model.

How do I predict this? Descent 2.0.

I think there would be a lot of merit in adopting a different attack dice mechanic. The different coloured dice in Armada open up the design space and these would not necessarily have to be range restricted in X-Wing 2.0

There could be different dice for ordnance vs other dice standard lasers which can represent the different probabilities of crits or other effects aspects.

I like armarda and the need for forward planning but it's ill suited to a dog fighting game where it's more about reaction than planning.

Losing green dice for their version of defence tokens I could live with.

Armada doesnt play at all like xwing does. Its got a ton of mechanics that are either handled way differently or are completely unique between the two.

If anything, Armada should be a template to follow for Epic Xwing. **** near every complaint i have about the epic ships would be resolved if they simply added a few rules from Armada...namely "Fighter in range 1, cant target ship!" and the ability to tag several fighters for light damage instead of trying to obliterate a single fighter (which isnt even done right imo in xwing).

Only complaint i have about epic xwing ships that wouldnt be fixed like this is the slots they gave us lol. Personally i feel like the Teams slot is pretty **** pointless to have more than 1 of. Engineering Team is awesome, others are either meh or utterly useless.

So, considering Armada came out after X-wing, can we take design decisions from that game as a "how would ffg have handled this in X-wing in retrospect", reading how Armada does alternating activations made me wonder how X-wing would be done now, cause the PS system is quite iffy as it stands.

Yep, Armada has a ton of "we had experience in X-wing and made better than that" desicions like multiple dice types.

but it's entirely different game, with completely different gameplay and depth of planning.

Trading Green Dice for defense tokens could work, but by the time they where done adapting the system for X-Wing it would look quite different- One turn in Armada represents a significant amount of time (Perhaps half a game of x-wing given how quickly squadrons can disappear), and every capital ship has a whole team assigned to each function. Having a supply of 3 defense tokens wouldn't really represent the split second reactions of a dogfight.

Alternating activations would be easier to implement, although some costs might need to be rebalanced.

Diversity in Attack dice would be a good addition- It would allow for precise but weak attacks (A-wings, which were designed to hunt Tie Interceptors in Legends) as well as powerful, but inaccurate attacks (Proton Torpedoes). I don't like the idea of split defense dice, though- Adding one or two symbols might not complicate things too much, but different defense dice would need to have fundamentally different functions.

Black ordnance dice would have easily fixed the ordnance issues without need for tons of extra "make ordnance great after 7 waves of promises" autoinclude cards.

the same can be said about ion weaponry or kinetic weaponry.

The lack of defense dice is one of the things I don't like about Armada.

It takes a big chunk of the excitement and unpredictability out of the game, which is something I enjoy.

Armada seems far more strategic due to not having defense dice. I think the less random the better. I love x-wing, but the worst thing about it is probably green dice.

Actually, having more dice and more types of dice would help, too. It would help increase design space for ship and weapon stats.