MEH... I could not even watch Team Covenant's videos this month because over half of them had dadgun-dumbass scouts or palps.

Nope not watching that crap.

Joe just click on that Team Covenant's 2013 world finals link if you are ever feeling down. Dallas with his swarm and Heaver with the Advanced Sensor B's... still the best competitive game of X-Wing I've ever seen. Glad Mr. Parker can still rock it with the swarm.

MEH... I could not even watch Team Covenant's videos this month because over half of them had dadgun-dumbass scouts or palps.

Nope not watching that crap.

Joe just click on that Team Covenant's 2013 world finals link if you are ever feeling down. Dallas with his swarm and Heaver with the Advanced Sensor B's... still the best competitive game of X-Wing I've ever seen. Glad Mr. Parker can still rock it with the swarm.

Gotta admit, it takes some serious dedication to still be breaking them out three years later.

Why? Swarms are fun and easy to play. Never understood the whole stigma behind them. They have always been useful on all metas.

And again we see the boats player failing to see that the only way to beat a Swarm is to split up. Jousting it is sheer suicide. Laziness or inexperience.

Or a game starting at 130 am after being there since 9 am. Definitely not that.

Fair enough, might be a factor, but just jousting it...

Dallas talked about this tourney on the mynock squadron podcast, fatigue played heavily into the results of the game

Why? Swarms are fun and easy to play. Never understood the whole stigma behind them. They have always been useful on all metas.

I'm not sure about stigma. I think he was just referring to the extra upkeep. Keeping track of 6+ ships is a little more taxing than a 3 or 4 ship list. I'd imagine that adds up over the course of a tournament. Personally I think it's impressive that Dallas maintained his focus with that list at 1:30 in the morning, or whenever it was. I'm not sure many players would be up to it.

MEH... I could not even watch Team Covenant's videos this month because over half of them had dadgun-dumbass scouts or palps.

Nope not watching that crap.

Joe just click on that Team Covenant's 2013 world finals link if you are ever feeling down. Dallas with his swarm and Heaver with the Advanced Sensor B's... still the best competitive game of X-Wing I've ever seen. Glad Mr. Parker can still rock it with the swarm.

I know Brother... I have watched that great match like half a dozen times and it is in my playlist of favorite X-WING Battles.

Back when the game was not ACE-Wing.

What a great ending to a great game!

Why? Swarms are fun and easy to play. Never understood the whole stigma behind them. They have always been useful on all metas.

I'm not sure about stigma. I think he was just referring to the extra upkeep. Keeping track of 6+ ships is a little more taxing than a 3 or 4 ship list. I'd imagine that adds up over the course of a tournament. Personally I think it's impressive that Dallas maintained his focus with that list at 1:30 in the morning, or whenever it was. I'm not sure many players would be up to it.

Glad we could give you a good laugh?

Glad we could give you a good laugh?

Thank you

Why? Swarms are fun and easy to play. Never understood the whole stigma behind them. They have always been useful on all metas.

They were kinda the first netlist or whatever that we had in x wing too, fly howl and 6 ties and grind people down

Funny enough this is an interesting phenomenon to Xwing: Finals matches are rarely actually good to watch. They typically happen after the contestants are so tired that both sides can make egregious mistakes or dumb maneuvers.

Funny enough this is an interesting phenomenon to Xwing: Finals matches are rarely actually good to watch. They typically happen after the contestants are so tired that both sides can make egregious mistakes or dumb maneuvers.

Sounds like my sex life

In terms of mental fatigue, probably the worst game I've seen recently was a game night kit final at our local store; two players had earlier in the week been talking about Phantoms, and had both for nostalgia's sake broken out a pure TIE phantom squad - and one had taken "Echo" to boot. Watching the two of them try to work through the assorted decloak possibilities when setting their dials was.....amusing. For everyone else, anyway.

I can't say enough about Texx's skill and perseverance with TIE Swarm. The archetype took a beating in waves 4 and 6 with Phantoms and BroBots, and he's always found a way. Fatigue is definitely a factor over a long tournament. I don't know Hujoe; I don't want to make assumptions or cast aspersions, but if it's not wearing you out to run them in major events, maybe you aren't pouring enough consideration into all the numerous permutations of options a TIE swarm has at its disposal?

Long time Swarm player here, never had any issues keeping track of my ships and I personally believe that the whole "swarm playing is very taxing" - is a myth.

Fatigue is fatigue and is not brought on by flying many ships, it is brought on by a long day of X-Wing - regardless of flying 2 or 7 ships.

It isn't for me though, never have been.

Remembering triggers though (Kenkirk, Ysanne, Captive, Lone Wolf being one example) is taxing for me.

This is an interesting disagreement. I know when I play control squads in a tournament, it wears me out faster. Scrutinizing possible range bands two turns into the future with Panic Attack was taxing. Flying a proto-Bumpmaster-Fringer + 3 B-Wings with all the dial options X 2 barrel rolls would give me a literal headache within 3 rounds. Hujoe or Keffisch...I'm trying to grasp why you aren't fatigued, and I'm stuck at the assumption that you might be playing on autopilot. Running through all the permutations of 6-8 ships that can reposition certainly wears me out faster than playing say...3 or 4 Rebel dogfighters with limited options.

Talk me through the hows?

Remembering triggers is solved by writing them on my hand

This is an interesting disagreement. I know when I play control squads in a tournament, it wears me out faster. Scrutinizing possible range bands two turns into the future with Panic Attack was taxing. Flying a proto-Bumpmaster-Fringer + 3 B-Wings with all the dial options X 2 barrel rolls would give me a literal headache within 3 rounds. Hujoe or Keffisch...I'm trying to grasp why you aren't fatigued, and I'm stuck at the assumption that you might be playing on autopilot. Running through all the permutations of 6-8 ships that can reposition certainly wears me out faster than playing say...3 or 4 Rebel dogfighters with limited options.

Talk me through the hows?

Remembering triggers is solved by writing them on my hand

People's brains are wired differently. It isn't hard for me to believe moving 6 or 7 ships isn't taxing for some people. Maybe they have good Instincts for pruning the decision tree down to a few important possibilities. I haven't run swarms in competitive situations, so I can't say one way or another how tired I would get, but when playing agaisnt swarms, I know that they often have moves that can counter anything I do because there are so many moving parts. Consequently, it's not worth a lot of mental energy to consider every possibility for every opposing ship. This might be a limitation of me as a player.

This is an interesting disagreement. I know when I play control squads in a tournament, it wears me out faster. Scrutinizing possible range bands two turns into the future with Panic Attack was taxing. Flying a proto-Bumpmaster-Fringer + 3 B-Wings with all the dial options X 2 barrel rolls would give me a literal headache within 3 rounds. Hujoe or Keffisch...I'm trying to grasp why you aren't fatigued, and I'm stuck at the assumption that you might be playing on autopilot. Running through all the permutations of 6-8 ships that can reposition certainly wears me out faster than playing say...3 or 4 Rebel dogfighters with limited options.

Talk me through the hows?

Remembering triggers is solved by writing them on my hand

I usually am playing 2-3 rounds ahead of where I am at the time. I can usually call out moves my opponents make, and I have stopped doing that, mostly cause I know it's a annoying mind game. When I fly a swarm my dials are usually down before combat is done. Adjustments being made for combat resolve. Usually out pacing players with 2-4 dials to do. It's not terribly difficult if that's how you have played since day one. When I first got into X-wing it was right at the wave 2 announcement, after wave 2, I flew nothing but interceptors. After the regional of that year I switched from pure interceptors to swarm/ace mixes. Some of my skill has slipped cause I made a change over to scum this past year, but I'm making my way back to my roots.

I'm used to always visualising where a ship can be with a PtL boost and barrel roll, so when a ship doesn't have both those, it makes life simpler for me. I love echo and ran her and 2 RGPs for the longest time as well. Also one of the main reasons I don't play rebels, unless it's a ace it usually can't do all that.

I know there is at least one video of my playing at a store championship which was a mixed swarm/aces list.

I'm not as well know as you Dee, but if you ask around enough for the central valley players, they will know who I am and vouch for my play style. Usually the only thing after a regional of x-wing that I suffer from is sore feet, which I should really bring those foam mats to stand on to help relieve.

Indeed. I keep planning to try a TIE/fo swarm - getting an actual 'swarm' on the board limits your options a bit, though - if you want 6 ships it'll cost you access to Crack Shot. 5 Ships with Crack Shot and Weapons Guidance might work, but I'm not sure if you're starting to lose too much raw firepower.

For sheer simplicity I find myself thinking about Epsilon Squadron - Epsilon Leader (Comms Relay), Epsilon Ace, 4 x Epsilon Squadron Pilot.

http://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Galactic%20Empire&d=v4!s!184:147:-1:-1:;184:147:-1:-1:;184:147:-1:-1:;184:147:-1:-1:;184:147:-1:-1:;184:-1:-1:-1:&sn=Unnamed%20Squadron

Can you guess who the dedicated blocker is?

Indeed. I keep planning to try a TIE/fo swarm - getting an actual 'swarm' on the board limits your options a bit, though - if you want 6 ships it'll cost you access to Crack Shot. 5 Ships with Crack Shot and Weapons Guidance might work, but I'm not sure if you're starting to lose too much raw firepower.

For sheer simplicity I find myself thinking about Epsilon Squadron - Epsilon Leader (Comms Relay), Epsilon Ace, 4 x Epsilon Squadron Pilot.

The new TIE Fo's really are great. I like a pair of trios going in on the flanks... these rascals can move, and you will get some nice fields of fire with them.

TFA stuff is awesomeness in general.

Indeed. I keep planning to try a TIE/fo swarm - getting an actual 'swarm' on the board limits your options a bit, though - if you want 6 ships it'll cost you access to Crack Shot. 5 Ships with Crack Shot and Weapons Guidance might work, but I'm not sure if you're starting to lose too much raw firepower.

For sheer simplicity I find myself thinking about Epsilon Squadron - Epsilon Leader (Comms Relay), Epsilon Ace, 4 x Epsilon Squadron Pilot.

This is an interesting disagreement. I know when I play control squads in a tournament, it wears me out faster. Scrutinizing possible range bands two turns into the future with Panic Attack was taxing. Flying a proto-Bumpmaster-Fringer + 3 B-Wings with all the dial options X 2 barrel rolls would give me a literal headache within 3 rounds. Hujoe or Keffisch...I'm trying to grasp why you aren't fatigued, and I'm stuck at the assumption that you might be playing on autopilot. Running through all the permutations of 6-8 ships that can reposition certainly wears me out faster than playing say...3 or 4 Rebel dogfighters with limited options.

Talk me through the hows?

Remembering triggers is solved by writing them on my hand

I usually am playing 2-3 rounds ahead of where I am at the time. I can usually call out moves my opponents make, and I have stopped doing that, mostly cause I know it's a annoying mind game. When I fly a swarm my dials are usually down before combat is done. Adjustments being made for combat resolve. Usually out pacing players with 2-4 dials to do. It's not terribly difficult if that's how you have played since day one. When I first got into X-wing it was right at the wave 2 announcement, after wave 2, I flew nothing but interceptors. After the regional of that year I switched from pure interceptors to swarm/ace mixes. Some of my skill has slipped cause I made a change over to scum this past year, but I'm making my way back to my roots.

I'm used to always visualising where a ship can be with a PtL boost and barrel roll, so when a ship doesn't have both those, it makes life simpler for me. I love echo and ran her and 2 RGPs for the longest time as well. Also one of the main reasons I don't play rebels, unless it's a ace it usually can't do all that.

I know there is at least one video of my playing at a store championship which was a mixed swarm/aces list.

I'm not as well know as you Dee, but if you ask around enough for the central valley players, they will know who I am and vouch for my play style. Usually the only thing after a regional of x-wing that I suffer from is sore feet, which I should really bring those foam mats to stand on to help relieve.

Hujoe, you and your game are known to me! My reputation is completely specious, as it's primarily composed of yelling on the internet each week.

Thanks, I figured I was making an error in assumption. Biophysical's response was helpful as well, as people are clearly wired differently. I still like to talk out varying perspectives, to have a clearer bridge to others' minds.

Hujoe is the best X Wing player I have ever played against, he is really slick! I completely agree with him on his swarm opinion.

Calculating permutations, bro... I mean, seriously bro? You look at board and plan 2-3 turn down road. Especially when we are not talking whisper/soontir... And aces? That is opportunity play and high level strategy/tactics for swarm.

Let's not conflate X Wing to being MtG or anything really demanding, ok bro?