Not sure if this has be discussed already but I was wondering what people's thoughts were on triggering surge abilities from shooting doors.

I think it's incredibly stupid and makes no sense (apart from maybe recover).

Here's probably the worst example, although focus is pretty bad too.

Agent Blaise can take a shot at a door from 100 miles away, not hit anything, and still interrogate to see the opponents hand and potentially discard a card.

Is that not absurd? Why the hell does interrogating a door allow him to see and affect my hand?

Kayn can shoot a door, miss and still focus a friendly Trooper. "Hey grunt, check out how good/bad I am at shooting doors", "Wow boss, that makes me really focused".

How does shooting a door make someone focused? Are doors really that challenging to hit? Does shooting a door provide some calming sensation? Do soldiers "get into the zone" by shooting at a stationary door?

Not quite as bad but Davith can attack a door, use Fell Swoop to gain hidden then move and attack something else.

In fact, triggering Hidden from attacking a door is just as bad as focus.
You know what's a great way to hide from the enemy? Make lots of noise by attacking doors.

/rant over

I really hope they FAQ that you can't trigger special surge abilities or gain beneficial conditions from shooting doors.

What's everyone else's thoughts on the issue?

How do a lot of surge abilities make sense as being triggered by combat? That's the real question. How does Blaise shooting "anything" generate information from an interrogation. Why does shooting a stormtrooper heal the attacker? I can hit someone with a blast weapon and whether or not his buddy gets caught in the blast depends on whether his armor protected him. For that natter, why is Darth Vader more likely to take damage from a blast weapon that detonates 5' away from him on the other side of a stormtrooper than if it detonates under his feet.

A great deal about this game doesn't make sense if you think about it too hard. So don't. It's a game, and a good one. That means certain things are abstracted.

How do a lot of surge abilities make sense as being triggered by combat? That's the real question. How does Blaise shooting "anything" generate information from an interrogation. Why does shooting a stormtrooper heal the attacker? I can hit someone with a blast weapon and whether or not his buddy gets caught in the blast depends on whether his armor protected him. For that natter, why is Darth Vader more likely to take damage from a blast weapon that detonates 5' away from him on the other side of a stormtrooper than if it detonates under his feet.

A great deal about this game doesn't make sense if you think about it too hard. So don't. It's a game, and a good one. That means certain things are abstracted.

Recover makes sense, your using your surge ability to heal up/bandage instead of doing damage. And even if you don't hit anything, that's just using up an action to heal. Recover doesn't need damage to be applied for it to trigger.

I don't have much of a problem with that. There isn't any other elegant way to use recover. As an action it would be difficult to balance/justify.

Interrogate makes sense when attacking an enemy figure. Perhaps being adjacent would be better, but interrogating a door is absurd.

Blast and cleave are interesting. It's probably more to do with the blast target not taking cover properly. If you're being shot at, you duck for cover, but if you don't see the grenade you take the hit. That's also why element of surprise removes a defense dice.

Vader can't deflect an explosion with the force or his lightsaber either. Cleave is a bit worse but it's still all in the heat of combat. The target could be busy fighting someone else and get a lightsaber in the back.

Cleave and blast would be far too powerful if they didn't require damage to apply.... everyone would just have free mini grenades. From a gameplay point of view, that's fine.

In any case, I'm talking more about these rules from a gameplay point of view. The fluff/lore/common sense is secondary.

Having lots of figures that can focus and hide off doors on the first turn is not fun to play against. I don't think it's in the spirit of the game.

Normally you have to put yourself in combat/danger to do that kinds of stuff, or pay points for support units like C3PO and Gideon, Or give up actions like Rebel Trooper's Get Into Position.

Doors are put there to slow figures down, either through wasting actions to open them or wasting attacks to destory them, which is just a door that takes multiple actions to open.

They shouldn't be there to buff your whole list. Especially when you can buff your whole list WHILE opening them.

The focus/hide argument can almost be separated from the special ability argument. I think it's bad for the game but getting those conditions from attacking doors at least is kind of consistent.

Maybe Blaise is interrogating the door that R2-D2 talked to. Do Luke and Leia's guns shoot out bandages in addition to lasers?

Interrogate makes sense when attacking an enemy figure. Perhaps being adjacent would be better, but interrogating a door is absurd.

In any case, I'm talking more about these rules from a gameplay point of view. The fluff/lore/common sense is secondary.

Which one is it?

As for the second bit, if you boil it down all the different skirmish maps tend to favour some lists and some types of actions over others. Yes, groups with unique surge abilities might benefit from doors that can be attacked, but the same could be said of other squad/map combos, even if otherwise less apparent advantages than that of doors and surges. E.g. Reprogrammed will give an advantage to high-speed squadrons and Constant Motion will favour a list with large figures, and so on, just as doors are advantageous to certain surges.

Bear in mind that a figure can only attack a door if the mission rules allow it, and usually thats only Rebels. Imperial guys are only sometimes allowed to attack doors.

Doors by default are always unlocked and cannot be attacked and require an interact to open. Mission rules override this by stating if they're locked, and how they can be unlocked or destroyed, and will state if rebel figures, imperial figures, or any figures can do so.

Bear in mind that a figure can only attack a door if the mission rules allow it, and usually thats only Rebels. Imperial guys are only sometimes allowed to attack doors.

Doors by default are always unlocked and cannot be attacked and require an interact to open. Mission rules override this by stating if they're locked, and how they can be unlocked or destroyed, and will state if rebel figures, imperial figures, or any figures can do so.

Talking more about skirmish here.

Interrogate makes sense when attacking an enemy figure. Perhaps being adjacent would be better, but interrogating a door is absurd.

In any case, I'm talking more about these rules from a gameplay point of view. The fluff/lore/common sense is secondary.

Which one is it?

As for the second bit, if you boil it down all the different skirmish maps tend to favour some lists and some types of actions over others. Yes, groups with unique surge abilities might benefit from doors that can be attacked, but the same could be said of other squad/map combos, even if otherwise less apparent advantages than that of doors and surges. E.g. Reprogrammed will give an advantage to high-speed squadrons and Constant Motion will favour a list with large figures, and so on, just as doors are advantageous to certain surges.

The fluff/lore is just an excuse or backup to the argument. I was just using that to demonstrate how silly some of the rules are.

The more important aspect is gameplay.

The focus problem affects heaps of units. Elite Snowtroopers, officers, elite Trandos, HKs with Sorin.... the list goes on.

I don't think it's the same as making a fast squad for objective based maps or taking massive figures to block corridors. Those are active decisions you make when building a list, which usually come with some sort of compromise (squishy units or high points costs).

The problem with shooting doors (and yes, it's not always an issue depending on map), is that you take those units anyway, and then get a free silly bonus just because that mission has locked doors.

You never build a list around focusing off doors.... but it's a free benefit you get on some missions. If you build a list to be fast or tanky or whatever, you'll be better on some missions and weaker on others.

Ultimately, I don't believe those sorts of units (with surge = focus abilities) were intended to trigger from doors. There's currently very few missions that have locked doors that can be attacked. It just happens that the current map rotation has 3 of them.

Perhaps they'll rotate all the maps out in August and we won't have this problem at all, but I think the more elegant solution is to simply not let that stuff trigger off doors.

I think, it's even more stupid, that in the current map rotation, there are doors, that aren't locked, but have health and therefore can be shot.

I think, it's even more stupid, that in the current map rotation, there are doors, that aren't locked, but have health and therefore can be shot.

Yeah that's silly but I believe that was just a ruling due to poor wording on the mission card.

That was never the intent.

It's the only mission that has that sort of wording.

I'd expect that to be FAQed, but then I also expect that map to rotate out.

Honestly, I hope all 3 maps get changed. I'm getting a bit sick of just playing those ones.

It actually makes way more sense that all of the doors in a mission are either invulnerable or able to be blown up, regardless of their locked state.

Having unlocked doors be invulnerable is actually rather strange when other doors in the same mission can be destroyed.

Honestly, I hope all 3 maps get changed. I'm getting a bit sick of just playing those ones.

So play other ones. There are almost 30 skirmish maps out currently. Why, oh why, would you limit yourself to just 3. When you get together to play, shuffle the mission deck and draw a random mission from the 60 or so available.

So far there are only a couple of missions I've played more than once.

Honestly, I hope all 3 maps get changed. I'm getting a bit sick of just playing those ones.

So play other ones. There are almost 30 skirmish maps out currently. Why, oh why, would you limit yourself to just 3. When you get together to play, shuffle the mission deck and draw a random mission from the 60 or so available.

So far there are only a couple of missions I've played more than once.

I'm well aware that other maps exist.

However, I mainly play competitive/tournament imperial assault and thus, when I practice, it's on those tournament maps.

I don't have enough time to play the other 30. I'd love to but there just aren't enough hours in the day.

I still haven't been able to finish the core campaign because it's too hard to get the same group of people together often enough.

I think, it's even more stupid, that in the current map rotation, there are doors, that aren't locked, but have health and therefore can be shot.

Yeah that's silly but I believe that was just a ruling due to poor wording on the mission card.

That was never the intent.

It's the only mission that has that sort of wording.

I'd expect that to be FAQed, but then I also expect that map to rotate out.

Honestly, I hope all 3 maps get changed. I'm getting a bit sick of just playing those ones.

I really hope so, too. There are so many good maps, that have never been in the tournament rotation. And at the same time, the current maps are so bad.