Granted, it'll be a less subpar carrier if it ever gets a way to just produce squadron tokens independent of its command dial

Would be a nice use of liberty, then; just a very cheap way to enable two squadrons while the ship also does its job unimpeded

You can produce those tokens in a few ways that don't seem terribly inconvenient. To mind:

1. Garm as commander with a Veteran Captain onboard as officer. You'll get 3 squadron tokens throughout the game, which should be sufficient.
2. 1+ Comms Net GR75(s) that mainlines squadron commands. When it can't meaningfully activate squadrons itself, it passes the token off to the Liberty, which gets the same value from the token as an unupgraded GR75 would from executing the order normally.
3. Raymus on the Liberty could be used for fake squadrons 4 (as we've been discussing) or a pair of squadrons 2, effectively. I expect Raymus to be on the Liberty MC80 (with or without the Liberty title) in Crix Madine fleets anyways due to Crix buffing the Nav tokens as well.

I don't really rate Tantive IV (+Raymus, optional) well for this kind of thing as Tantive IV is a bad squadron commander intrinsically and nothing else really buffs squadron tokens like Liberty does, so it feels like a waste of the CR90's potential.

You hit upon an I interesting theory there at the end. What if you are using the Liberty with just tokens?

Thanks. I think with Garm this is a pretty easy sell. With other commanders it takes a bit more doing but could be worthwhile depending on your fleet build.

raymus is tied to the liberty's command dial, so no dice there. You'd need Wulf, basically, for an effective 10 point Squadron 2 ship which beats out even gr-75s ito "Squadron value"

if you're using the squadron command judiciously, you're just flying a dedicated carrier at that point which I don't think is an effective/efficient use of the ship. If you can somehow just generate squadron tokens for no dial cost, though, it becomes a very cheap squadron 2 that just happens to be stapled to front-arc sledgehammer

Garm and captain I think is the winning combo, as the captain is a token of your choice whereas raymus is "1 matching command token"

flying around with a pair of H-6 Sillies could be interesting

ultimate payoff is what is hopefully an efficient offensive ship and an efficient Squadron 2 carrier rolled into a single package

not sure what the rest of the fleet would look like, though

You can produce those tokens in a few ways that don't seem terribly inconvenient. To mind:

• Garm as commander with a Veteran Captain onboard as officer. You'll get 3 squadron tokens throughout the game, which should be sufficient.
• 1+ Comms Net GR75(s) that mainlines squadron commands. When it can't meaningfully activate squadrons itself, it passes the token off to the Liberty, which gets the same value from the token as an unupgraded GR75 would from executing the order normally.
• Raymus on the Liberty could be used for fake squadrons 4 (as we've been discussing) or a pair of squadrons 2, effectively. I expect Raymus to be on the Liberty MC80 (with or without the Liberty title) in Crix Madine fleets anyways due to Crix buffing the Nav tokens as well.

4. GR75 with Comms Net and Raymus. Activates 2 squads and passes token to LIberty for 2 more squads.

You can produce those tokens in a few ways that don't seem terribly inconvenient. To mind:

• Garm as commander with a Veteran Captain onboard as officer. You'll get 3 squadron tokens throughout the game, which should be sufficient.
• 1+ Comms Net GR75(s) that mainlines squadron commands. When it can't meaningfully activate squadrons itself, it passes the token off to the Liberty, which gets the same value from the token as an unupgraded GR75 would from executing the order normally.
• Raymus on the Liberty could be used for fake squadrons 4 (as we've been discussing) or a pair of squadrons 2, effectively. I expect Raymus to be on the Liberty MC80 (with or without the Liberty title) in Crix Madine fleets anyways due to Crix buffing the Nav tokens as well.

4. GR75 with Comms Net and Raymus. Activates 2 squads and passes token to LIberty for 2 more squads.

Works for me, provided Raymus wasn't needed elsewhere. Probably a better solution than relying on Raymus to generate the token himself (due to dial, which I'd rather avoid).

given the Raymus net Gr-75 set-up + Liberty, what squadrons would we then take?

If the Liberty is providing a hefty anti-ship punch, do we go full on anti-squadron or do we try and enable something a bit more balanced?

Squadron speed is an issue for the GR-75 getting close to the enemy (not as much for the blue heavy liberty) and Bright Hope will keep rhymer off its ass, so maybe we can even afford to go in on Xs, Jan and Ys/H-6s

Liberty

*title (3)

*gunnery team (7)

*medical team (1) - because why not?

[107]

-not complete (needs token mitigation), but as a base

Bright Hope

*title (2)

*Raymus (7)

*Comms Net (2)

[29]

Now, Comms Net have the added benefit of flinging tokens to friendlies during round 1 when no shots are exchanged (barring fleet ambush, I guess?) so it can set up navs and repairs as well (round 1, Liberty takes a token of choice and Bright Hope flings it a bonus token). I guess Madine is sort of the default choice with the liberty, so the nav token that Bright Hope can feed/enable will be nice to have

166 total and 234 remaining

now what?

Nebulons for Madine? Another winged turd (Mon Karren)?

This is my Liberty Trial list. I'm really interested in how it works.

Squishy on the Objectives, somewhat. It's basically a slasher. You have the maneuverability, deployment, and command dial flexibility w/ Leia to treat her as basically a Wing Commander for Liberty.

1-2 punch with Lib and Admon w/ A Wings being thrown to intercept anything long enough for the cap ships to either do their thing or not, Jan and X Wings cause havoc, or screen as necessary. Then GTFO.

Madine's Liberty

Faction: Rebel Alliance 
Points: 391/400 


Commander: General Madine

Assault Objective: Precision Strike 


Defense Objective: Fire Lanes 


Navigation Objective: Dangerous Territory

[ flagship ] MC80 Star Cruiser (96 points)


- General Madine ( 30 points) 


- Liberty ( 3 points)


- Raymus Antilles ( 7 points)


- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)


- Engine Techs ( 8 points)


- H9 Turbolasers ( 8 points)


- X17 Turbolasers ( 6 points)


- Leading Shots ( 4 points)


= 169 total ship cost

GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)


- Bright Hope ( 2 points)


- Leia Organa ( 3 points)


- Expanded Hangar Bay ( 5 points)


- Slicer Tools ( 7 points) 


= 35 total ship cost

MC30c Torpedo Frigate (63 points)


- Admonition ( 8 points)


- Intel Officer ( 7 points)


- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)


- X17 Turbolasers ( 6 points)


- Assault Proton Torpedoes ( 5 points) 


= 93 total ship cost

3 A-Wing Squadrons ( 33 points)


1 Tycho Celchu ( 16 points)


2 X-Wing Squadrons ( 26 points)


1 Jan Ors ( 19 points) 


Fleet created with Armada Warlords

*Also, I'm very much looking at this as ver. 1 of a list I really want to evolve. It is primarily set for "fun" rather than, "hyper-tournament ready with maximum point efficiency", but either way, it's gonna hurt when it hits.

** The gun configuration is a good place to mess with I think, incl Gunnery Teams, to look at what consistently puts out the most damage.

*** Must haves are Liberty, Engine Techs, Leading Shots, Madine, Raymus, Leia and four interceptors. Everything else is movable I suppose, but the GR75 and Shrimp make sense to me for the play style.

Here's the basic framework for modding the fleet. Stripping it down to what are, arguably, the basics while maintains the basic composition with 65 points to spare.

Madine's Liberty

Faction: Rebel Alliance

Points: 335/400

Commander: General Madine

Assault Objective: Precision Strike

Defense Objective: Fire Lanes

Navigation Objective: Dangerous Territory

[ flagship ] MC80 Star Cruiser (96 points)

- General Madine ( 30 points)

- Liberty ( 3 points)

- Raymus Antilles ( 7 points)

- Engine Techs ( 8 points)

- Leading Shots ( 4 points)

= 148 total ship cost

GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)

- Leia Organa ( 3 points)

- Expanded Hangar Bay ( 5 points)

- Slicer Tools ( 7 points)

= 33 total ship cost

MC30c Torpedo Frigate (63 points)

- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)

- Assault Proton Torpedoes ( 5 points)

= 72 total ship cost

2 X-Wing Squadrons ( 26 points)

4 A-Wing Squadrons ( 44 points)

1 HWK-290 ( 12 points)

Fleet created with Armada Warlords

Since the Liberty can only really work with 2 squadrons, why not just focus on which 2 squadrons would work the most effectively? I'd also add that the rest of the fleet can assist carrier duty and/or support those missiles after they launch.

well there's the rub, which two squadrons would those be?

you're dumping 29 points of Bright Hope + raymus + comms net + 3 points of Liberty for a total of 32 points (30 without Bright Hope, but Bright Hope is crazy) for an effective two Squadron 2 ships, which is cheaper than two GR-75s (yay!)

do we do that either to just take a gaggle of As and then pour everything else into ship-to-ship combat? (since that's what the winged turd apparently does well anyway?)

if so, we could be looking at something like

Madine

Star Cruiser

*liberty

*intel officer

*sw-7

*gunnery

*medical team

[119]

Star Cruiser

*Mon Karren

*sw-7

*gunnery

*medical team

[117]

CR-90a

*TLRC

[51]

GR-75 Transports

*raymus

*comms net

*Bright Hope

[29]

4 A-wings [44]

For a grand total of 390

--> kinda want Blissex on the Mon Karren for defense, as it's the only defensive upgrade available and it should work nicely with the double brace

no earthly clue if that's any good or not

do we do that either to just take a gaggle of As and then pour everything else into ship-to-ship combat? (since that's what the winged turd apparently does well anyway?)

I think Engine Techs really like your fleet.

Great discussion going on guys.

Just to point out, putting Raymus on Liberty can result in a squadron 2 every turn, while still allowing other dial commands. You just have to alternate commands each turn. Nav, squadron, nav, squadron, repair, squadron for example. Save the tokens. That way you get a squadron command each turn, and (with Madine) an extra click each turn.

In case you don't want to spend the points for a GR-75 and just go with Squadron 2. In which case you could have Wedge/Dutch come along for the ride, or some such combo.

Something like:

Star Cruiser, Liberty (3), Raymus (7), Flight Controllers (6), Leading Shots (4)

Wedge (19), Dutch (16).

That's 16 points of upgrades supporting 35 points of fairly hard-hitting fighters. If you drop Flight Controllers it's only 10 points of upgrades.

If you go the Garm route, you could increase fighter effectiveness even more at small cost:

Star Cruiser, Liberty (3), Adar (10), Flight Controllers (6), Leading Shots (4)

Wedge (19), Dutch (16)

That's 19 points of upgrades to support (effectively) 35 (49) points of fighters (effectively 3 squadrons). Again, Flight Controllers is optional so potentially only 13 points of upgrades, but really helps get the most out of Wedge and Dutch.

For this niche build, the title seems like a pretty darn good value!

well there's the rub, which two squadrons would those be?

you're dumping 29 points of Bright Hope + raymus + comms net + 3 points of Liberty for a total of 32 points (30 without Bright Hope, but Bright Hope is crazy) for an effective two Squadron 2 ships, which is cheaper than two GR-75s (yay!)

do we do that either to just take a gaggle of As and then pour everything else into ship-to-ship combat? (since that's what the winged turd apparently does well anyway?)

if so, we could be looking at something like

Madine

Star Cruiser

*liberty

*intel officer

*sw-7

*gunnery

*medical team

[119]

Star Cruiser

*Mon Karren

*sw-7

*gunnery

*medical team

[117]

CR-90a

*TLRC

[51]

GR-75 Transports

*raymus

*comms net

*Bright Hope

[29]

4 A-wings [44]

For a grand total of 390

--> kinda want Blissex on the Mon Karren for defense, as it's the only defensive upgrade available and it should work nicely with the double brace

no earthly clue if that's any good or not

I do like the overall list to start doing some testing on. Maybe dropping the one medical team for a Skilled First Officer or something. I feel like I'd want to replace an A-Wing for Dutch or even start testing out 2x of certain ships to see how they feel. A-Wings do feel like the overall best option considering the lean towards squadrons and the flotillas.

When I think about it, I'd even test out a few of the other commanders like Rieekan for more focus on named squadrons or even Garm for more basic tokens.