Cards are cheap to produce. I agree, just make new balanced pilotcards...

T h a t s n o t h o w i t w o r k s

Not a bad idea. Imperial assault had no problem doing it. Only current change is maybe getting rid of the EPT on the scouts (A low cost unique bot to replace it?). At least makes more thematic sense, as a 3 pilot skill scum scout has an EPT?

Im smelling $$$ on why they added this in- it would sell a lot of scouts!

Imperial Assault had a huge problem doing it, but they had absolutely no choice because of how bad the core set was when it came to Skirmish.

Balance is hard. Correcting it later is even harder.

In this case, there has been precisely two changes in the FAQ that could make a tournament list illegal: Tacticians became Limited, and Experimental Interface was clarified to be Unique (an issue due to a misprint in some translations).

If you show up with those lists, you'll not be allowed to play. Hopefully they simply let you leave the cards behind and play a terribly nerfed list, but the fact of the matter is that every time they do such a change, it's a terribly risky proposition.

Changing the point costs on cards is similar - if you show up with Triple Jumpmasters, so proud to have worked out your Killer Combo, and they dropped an FAQ two days before while you were off the internet that says they're now 27 points base... you've shown up to a tournament with a literally illegal list.

This is bad design.

Thus they try to patch stuff via 'rules clarifications' and upgrade cards instead. That way, lists remain legal even if their mechanical interactions are changed, tweaked, or entirely set on fire.

I suspect the only wholesale points-repricing that we'll ever see would be in an X-wing 2.0 model, in which they re-release pilot cards with updated costs (Rhymer)/upgrade bars (Kir Kanos)/abilities (Fel's Wrath, Xizor) as appropriate, and hope like heck that the benefit of hindsight was enough to make it work.

If they're smart, when they do such a model they'll officially add in the concept of upgrade cards and rules text cards having versioning numbers, and explicit rules about the text on these cards being 'contagious' - so if you have v1 cards, and you buy even a single v2 card with the updated text, all v1 cards are forcibly expected to reference the new one. This might sound blindly obvious for v2 vs v1, but the real power comes when they do reprints - and want to have v2.1 cards 'spread the word' among casual groups with the older stuff.

It'd be worth a shot, anyway.

Have proposed a digital suqd builder app as a mandatory component in the past an been ridiculed for it. Eventually, I think it's an inevitability.

No printed card cost, just a code. Squad builder has a version # and expiration date posted in the screen corner at all times. It could work.

Well that sort of goes against the architecture of X-wing which uses cards for model stats and available upgrades. When you go away and just make it necessary for an online app you end up with the Warhammer architecture where they can replace stats and point cost for older models by simply releasing a new army book (or E-book).

If you want to adjust stats you simply make a new card (and a alt paint model) and give it new card just like Poe9. However the previous card Poe8 will always be in the game and if not careful you get into that rut where the newest expansions are always better than older models. In X-wing at least Wave 1 and 2 ships are still commonly used although they do need their sepcial pack and other upgrades from more recient waves.

IF they were going to make point adjustment I believe the only way they could/should go is DOWN. Why? It's pretty simple, if you bring a squadron with something that has had a price reduction it is still a legal squadron after the points are corrected but you've just gained an initiative bid but if something is to be more expensive you've suddenly got an illegal squadron that would take some serious work to fix.

Example: Hypothetical ship at 20 points. If reduced to 19 points you x5 squadron goes from 100 points to 95 points but it's still a legal squadron even if it is leaving some points off the table. Increase points to 21 points and now you're at 105 points and over the limit means you've committed a crime and can not use what you brought.

While I could see a use for point reductions to give some pilot+ships I'm not sure it is the best way to make corrections although in a few cases it certainly would be the easiest. Of course instead of point reductions some of those same ships could turn playable with some other change like maybe gaining an EPT slot or access to some other upgrade.

Imagine a card where both the text and the cost has been errata-ed. What's the point of still requiring the player to have it?

Imagine a card where both the text and the cost has been errata-ed. What's the point of still requiring the player to have it?

You could say the same about any errata. Should they just not bother?

FFG is really against changing cards. The most theyve done afaik is add Limited to some cards like Tac. Other than that its all been rule clarification or event sequence breakdown.

Warzone Resurrection has the same issue. They use a card system for stats, hp tracking, and resources. Every time they updated an army (especially my imperials) SOMETHING had a stat change, and it took me awhile to see it changed. Majority of my unit cards had marker gunk on it so i didnt have to pull the PDF out to check a stat i knew changed and forgot the number.

It was frustrating, and one of the reasons i stopped playing. Keeping my cards up to date was a nightmare, and SOMETHING changed every single **** update. Now, granted, i was playing a "beta faction" and thats why they were being updated so much, but still...they sold card packs for these factions only to have them either rendered useless via main rule changes or require marking a dark colored card with the correction. Think i had 3 units that were completely untouched across ~16 available to me.

If FFG started updating point costs, people would want them to update stats too. If they updated stats, then they'd want updated abilities. Eventually they'd have to release an "Updated Pack" with all the changed cards or everyone would have cards covered in corrections.

Hmm, several games I play do do balance changes, Malifaux does do them occasionally (though it does have a way of getting new copies of individual cards), and Guild Ball has done several extensive rebalancings, but of course also has their rules available for free. The way they handle it convinces me more and more that free online rules and stats is the model to go for.

Especially since having older cards is already a mess due to errata'd stuff and such. (Honestly, if X-wing had all the rules and stats just available and legal to use online I'd be way more likely to invest more money in it again.)

Imagine a card where both the text and the cost has been errata-ed. What's the point of still requiring the player to have it?

You could say the same about any errata. Should they just not bother?

Most errata either clarifies, adds, or changes part of the text on a card. The cost remains the same, which means the card is at minimum useful for squad building and MOV calculation.

I'm talking about a card where absolutely nothing printed on it is still relevant. Why still carry the card as opposed to a printout of the update?

Balance is hard. Correcting it later is even harder.

In this case, there has been precisely two changes in the FAQ that could make a tournament list illegal: Tacticians became Limited, and Experimental Interface was clarified to be Unique (an issue due to a misprint in some translations).

If you show up with those lists, you'll not be allowed to play. Hopefully they simply let you leave the cards behind and play a terribly nerfed list, but the fact of the matter is that every time they do such a change, it's a terribly risky proposition.

Changing the point costs on cards is similar - if you show up with Triple Jumpmasters, so proud to have worked out your Killer Combo, and they dropped an FAQ two days before while you were off the internet that says they're now 27 points base... you've shown up to a tournament with a literally illegal list.

This is bad design.

Thus they try to patch stuff via 'rules clarifications' and upgrade cards instead. That way, lists remain legal even if their mechanical interactions are changed, tweaked, or entirely set on fire.

I suspect the only wholesale points-repricing that we'll ever see would be in an X-wing 2.0 model, in which they re-release pilot cards with updated costs (Rhymer)/upgrade bars (Kir Kanos)/abilities (Fel's Wrath, Xizor) as appropriate, and hope like heck that the benefit of hindsight was enough to make it work.

If they're smart, when they do such a model they'll officially add in the concept of upgrade cards and rules text cards having versioning numbers, and explicit rules about the text on these cards being 'contagious' - so if you have v1 cards, and you buy even a single v2 card with the updated text, all v1 cards are forcibly expected to reference the new one. This might sound blindly obvious for v2 vs v1, but the real power comes when they do reprints - and want to have v2.1 cards 'spread the word' among casual groups with the older stuff.

It'd be worth a shot, anyway.

Bad design is creating a value system where values remain static in an ever evolving meta.

The only problem I see about reprinting the cards is where do I get the reprints. I still don't have the updated Imperial assault cards.

So should all pilots and upgrades be digital content that you print out onto your squad list from an official FFG app, and the products sold by FFG are merely ships, dials and pilot bases?

Well, that'd certainly make it easier to rebalance things, but it'd also mean that FFG loses all sales that are strictly for upgrade purposes. Every sale they had where someone bought a Starviper for the autothrusters but not the Starviper would be gone.

It'd also make things a bit clunkier as you'd have to fire up a printer and use the internet every time you wanted to build a squad. That may be well and good for players who take the time to browse these forums, but it probably wouldn't be fine for ALL players. Alienating part of the player base is probably not high on their agenda.

I'm envious of games like Clash Royale and Hearthstone which can just go in and alter their digital content for balance purposes after they see how the content is performing, but I can't figure out how it'd be viable for X-Wing to do the same thing.

No solution is perfect. The cards-in-box system means that they can release lightweight expansions without having the stats cause headaches (or having to reveal which ships they're releasing ahead of time) - but they also mean that the stats are linked to the packaged product.

Compare a rulebook that either spoils future releases, or is eternally out of date, yet you're expected to buy the replacements every few years. (This model is actually pretty unpopular with FLGS owners, because it means that your expensive niche stock risks becoming unsalable, and often with very little warning.)

Or you go online - but this means that the design work you put in isn't being compensated at all outside model purchases, and means that many casual players have only limited interest.

Remember: the game was released as a boxed, scenario-based casual wargame, folks! Ships living or dying based on single point differences was never a major thought at the time.

The system includes some artifacts, but we do what we can.

The prices on the cards can stay and the system doesn't need to alter for casual play.

For tournament play tho, prices should be dynamic and be able to change at the end of a season/short period to deliberately counter the tier 1 meta and free up the unplayable content.

I think its false to assume sales as the reasoning to not have a dynamic points structure. A majority of the current product is never bought or just sits on shelves because the contents are never used. If everything was tournament viable over time everything has a purchase demand. For the casual environment the niceties of a ship is most important, and the game balance does not usually affect purchase habits.

The logistical hassle of printing new cards is insignificant compared to the power of better game balance.

The logistical hassle of printing new cards is insignificant compared to the power of better game balance.

Nicely quoted.

Wrong, but nicely quoted.