Are we due a map rotation? Who else is half expecting FFG to shoot themselves in the foot by making it a map that requires Bespin?

Actually, I've only played the carbonite map and isb training maps. The isb map is awesome, the carbonite chamber is slightly imbalanced. I would be fine playing a Bespin map

I'm 100% expecting a Bespin map. The question is, which one?

Are we due a map rotation? Who else is half expecting FFG to shoot themselves in the foot by making it a map that requires Bespin?

I don't see how it involves them "shooting themselves in the foot" if they rotate in a Bespin map.

To me, I feel that if you're playing in Skirmish tournaments, then you're probably buying of everything, or at least the box sets for this reason, so that you will always at least have the materials to play legally in your meta.

For anyone that might feel like swapping in Bespin is "too soon" when there are enough missions that might use Hoth or Twin Shadows tiles, it's only a matter of time before they phase in Bespin anyways, so if not this rotation, expect it on the next one.

If your concern here is that you haven't had the time or resources to keep up with the map tiles as such, then I do empathize with your situation but I'd have to feel like said situation would be in the minority. This, over X-Wing, Armada, is the extra layer that can make IA seem inaccessible for some, as it requires you to keep up with the tiles at the very least, along with potentially other packs (like Stormtroopers for Training Ground) as you couldn't just theoretically keep showing up at each event, year after year, with the same Core Set list and never re-invest in the game system.

Again though, I feel like that demographic is in the minority here. I'd welcome some hard data to counter my speculation.

In any case, I believe the Cantina is the oldest map in the block? If so, expect that to drop out with something (probably Bespin but who knows?) replacing it on the next FAQ update.

I'd bet on Bossk's map being the next, right before GenCon.

_{First if your in the US you need to understand that every component of this game is 1.5 to 3 times more expensive everywhere else.}

_{Secondly its also quite hard to get, the distributors for my local stores are out of Twin Shadows and Bespin, and I am lucky to live near a large and small store with tables.}

_{Yes I think it is too much to expect anyone wanting to play in a event to have to buy a new expansion every moth, that basically averages 50% of the original core which in its self is expensive.}

_{It's also expensive for most people to get into, I have had a couple of people ask me about it and when they look at skirmish and find they would need to spend £150 before buying the units its an instant turn off, and its only going to get worse.}

_{Clearly the store is selling the product, but in terms of events, the two stores have between them maybe four events a year, so that's a high bar for an infrequent occurrence, and these events are so badly attended that I wouldn't be surprised if both stop running them I don't know if either will even run a summer event, so could bite the bullet and find no more events. The last two events in one store had 3 people, the second store they cancelled on the day as only two of us turned up for a store championship, atm only the same two of us are down for the next event.}

_{Compared to Xwing, which has a lower buy in in the first place, and you don't need to buy a copy of every wave, there is a great scene I can turn up at the store on an average night and pick up a game (not a chance with IA) there are a dozen or more events a year, the smallest had 16 players and the regional event had over 60, the comparison would be if FFG had written into the rules that you had to bring an official mat to the event and then changed the mat every 6 months, I very much doubt that would be popular, look at what happened when they said had to use an official mat for premier events or you had to use the new damage deck U turn on both.}

_{I am not against them having official missions, in fact I would like them to change them more often, nor am I against them using those out of new expansions, but expecting everyone to buy every expansion is madness and easily solved by allowing printed maps, and there are a fair number of people that don't like the jigsaw element, saves a lot of time at time critical events and means that the TO is more inclined to actually use all six of the missions as a pool instead of we have that map built lets use the second mission for it.}

_{I would say that there is a greater chance of IA events disappearing in my area than it expanding to be half as popular as Xwing, which is a great shame as its a good game.}

Are we due a map rotation? Who else is half expecting FFG to shoot themselves in the foot by making it a map that requires Bespin?

You should absolutely expect a change that requires Bespin before GenCon.

August 2nd is apparently the date when we'll get a new map rotation (and hopefully FAQ/errata).

I can't remember where I read it but I believe that date has been mentioned a few times.

As for the next map.... I fully expect Cantina to be out, and a Bespin map to be in.

It makes sense from a sales point of view.

For the other two, I really hope they are Core Set maps just for the sake of growing the game. The missions could be from some of the A&V packs but I hope they only use core set map tiles.

The barrier to entry for new players in the competitive scene is immense. You literally have to buy every expansion and the stormtrooper pack at a bare minimum to be technically considered tournament legal. That's near a $300 buy-in in some countries. It's hard to convince new players with that sort of price tag, especially compared to X-wing (yes I know competitive lists are expensive, but you can be technically be tournament legal with a core set and a large ship eg Dash for under $100).
Obviously there's a bit of leniency there but that's how the rules are worded.

Only way that will change is if they allow printed maps, and I doubt that will ever happen.

I hope we get an announcement soon, even if the actual rotation comes right before GenCon as I'd like to know what to start testing. Announcing right before GenCon and expecting everyone there to be ready to play on a new map would be poor planning and rather unfair.

If they are going to refresh the Legal Maps list, then I hope they do it well before August 2. I want a chance to play the new missions and see which of my 15 squad ideas I want to settle on, so that I can start practicing.

And I thoroughly agree with the need for allowing printed maps. You could say that the huge events like Nationals and Worlds will be tile-only, but it should be completely fine for people to play on printed maps at any local or Regional event. I know that a lot of stores completely ignore the tile requirement for their Regionals anyway. It's frankly a very difficult rule for FFG to enforce at the local store level, but quite easy for them to enforce at the National/World level. So yes, I think they should just honestly admit that the emperor has no clothes, and change the floor rules to reflect that.

I think the game would be helped a lot if people who wanted to play Skirmish only needed to buy the Core Set and then whatever individual products they wanted after that. If they really do get hooked on Skirmish, then we all know that most of them will eventually pick up at least 1 copy of each product anyway. But I think it's the "buy it all at the start" requirement that really turns people off at the start.

And yes, I actually do think that FFG will revise its policy on this issue, at some point. Everything is proceeding as I have foreseen.

I know at my regional event they allowed printed maps and alternate Terminal/Door tokens/models. I have quite a few friends that enjoy the skirmish game, but it's too expensive for them to hop in to.

about 14 days before worlds they released the new legal maps so expect the same for GENCON...i expect a map with the bespin tiles as well...so that would be blaise, ISBs or bespin

i expect a map with the bespin tiles as well...so that would be blaise, ISBs or bespin

Most maps, that were in the tournament rotation 'til now, were from figure packs. From a sales point of view, this absolutely makes sense. Therefore my bets are on Blaise or ISBs.

Because it would be rather stupid to have Training Grounds and ISB Training Grounds in the same Rotation (because they might get mixed up), my bets are on Blaise.

By the way, I like Blaise's map ...

statistically spoken that is not true only hoth was not in the rotation all the other big boxes were...it probably just depends on how tournament balanced the missions/maps are

anyway skirmish is dead (here)...we cannot even get 4 people for a gnk tournament...so will probably stop playing soon

about 14 days before worlds they released the new legal maps so expect the same for GENCON...i expect a map with the bespin tiles as well...so that would be blaise, ISBs or bespin

Or it could be Kenobi, Inquisitor, or Greedo as well.

I am hoping for any of them but Bossk's map--- it's horrible.

I am looking to get a map printed up...any safe bets to print or should I wait for the announcement?

I don't see how it involves them "shooting themselves in the foot" if they rotate in a Bespin map.

To me, I feel that if you're playing in Skirmish tournaments, then you're probably buying of everything, or at least the box sets for this reason, so that you will always at least have the materials to play legally in your meta.

I'm guessing that the map and mission rotations hurt sales to prospective skirmish players. Especially, since they use content from expensive expansions that are mostly filled with campaign crap. I still play skirmish every once in a while with people I play X-Wing with but stopped going to the local tournaments because I don't have the all of the maps and the missions in the rotation. I don't think I'm the only one. Local IA participation seems to be dropping the more expansions they release.

I've more or less stopped buying Imperial Assault product because I'm not willing to spend the kind of money on it that I spend on X-Wing. I don't care about having a cutting edge meta crushing squad. If I can't just make the occasional purchase to update the squad I want to run, it's not worth it to even bother buying anything. I think Boba Fett is the last thing I bought. I may end up buying Bossk.

I'm guessing that the map and mission rotations hurt sales to prospective skirmish players. Especially, since they use content from expensive expansions that are mostly filled with campaign crap.

Don't be so quick to lash out at the campaign. There's a fine game in there.

I still play skirmish every once in a while with people I play X-Wing with but stopped going to the local tournaments because I don't have the all of the maps and the missions in the rotation. I don't think I'm the only one. Local IA participation seems to be dropping the more expansions they release.

This is more reasonable. I would point out that you don't need to necessarily buy the Stormtrooper pack to get the map per se, just download a PDF of it so you have it to assemble the tiles with.

I think if your local tournament participation is dropping, then you need to take a look at what the player base is. If it's a handful of more casual players, then you can all collectively agree to use preprinted maps. If the cost of THAT is a deterrent, then work with the store to have everyone's entry go towards covering costs for them to buy the maps.

Each set of maps will host 2 players, so an 8 player event requires 4 sets. If you source out a decent price from a printer, this could curtail some of that expense.

I've more or less stopped buying Imperial Assault product because I'm not willing to spend the kind of money on it that I spend on X-Wing. I don't care about having a cutting edge meta crushing squad. If I can't just make the occasional purchase to update the squad I want to run, it's not worth it to even bother buying anything. I think Boba Fett is the last thing I bought. I may end up buying Bossk.

Trying to keep current with several games is difficult for a lot of people, and I think this, at its core, is what keeps IA and Armada down in terms of attendance in a lot of areas.

If you're already deeply invested in X-Wing, and have all those people and friends playing that, you're hardly going to stop keeping up with that in favour of a fledgling game system by comparison. It could be the best game in the world but if your area isn't getting into it, justifying the expense becomes difficult.

I actually prefer IA and Armada's objective based gameplay, as 4 years of X-Wing 100pt death matches has gotten a little stale for me. My infrequent outings to IA events are a breath of fresh air.

The campaign side I enjoy with my wife and some friends who aren't tournament players of these games, so for me IA has been of incredible value to our gaming group. I enjoy painting them up and seeing all those classic images play out on the tabletop.

I would recommend exploring that element of the game as well, and if you don't have a group, or a local store with a regular meetup going on, check out the "Automated Emperor" variant that is floating around.

Exeter regionals this weekend and the only tiles use were on the top table.

Ibsh's maps have no setup time, no requirement to buy the tile sets, and have the missions printed on them.

I think that needs to become the norm for ia to really kick on.

For us in Exeter the game is really going strong, we just hosted a 26 man regionals with 18 local players in it, I guess two dozen people playing off and on.

I think it's easier once you hit critical mass though and a reduced buy in due to not having to get tiles has helped with that for us, people end up buying those sets eventually anyway!

I think once there are 4-6 people playing regularly others are much more likely to jump in as they don't see their investment being useless when the next big thing comes along.

LIke I said, I really enjoy a lot of of the new maps. That being said, ObiWan and the Inquisitor's maps look to be made of mostly core set pieces anyway.

the local scene is just that, meant to be played as the needs of the local players require or whatever is good for that community. FFG even supports modifying tournament kits to fit a community's needs. The only time the Bespin or whatever new stuff would be required is at one of their higher level tournaments.

LIke I said, I really enjoy a lot of of the new maps. That being said, ObiWan and the Inquisitor's maps look to be made of mostly core set pieces anyway.

the local scene is just that, meant to be played as the needs of the local players require or whatever is good for that community. FFG even supports modifying tournament kits to fit a community's needs. The only time the Bespin or whatever new stuff would be required is at one of their higher level tournaments.

They're really only required in so much as your TO is going to follow the rules. Your best bet for running local events is to make your announcement include a mention that printed maps will be allowed and in use. A person who travels to an event and doesn't know the area would still do well to bring the analog components, just in case, because ANY tournament using that framework (seasonal kits, and Store Championships all the way to Worlds) could have someone calling you out for that, and they wouldn't be wrong.

It's a game component like any other, and it's not different, functionally speaking, than bringing in your old Wizards of the Coast Star Wars minis and printing out the deployment cards online.

For me, buying the sets or not isn't the issue. It's a competitive game that will require some capital investment over time to stay competitive. What that means for me versus everyone else is going to change to meet the needs of the individual in terms of budget and value. What we do all have in common is a desire to have a tournament roll off with a minimal amount of fiddly setup.

Do you think someone crossing over from X-Wing or Armada is going to enjoy assembling a jigsaw puzzle before each match when they're used to dropping their ships and 3 asteroid tokens and getting stuck in? Do any of us want to drive home from an event only to realize someone might have one or more of our tiles in error? What if you don't know them, how do you get that back? FFG Customer Service is amazing and would probably replace it, but you'd have to wait for that tile to show up in the mail. What if you're doing a Regional every weekend for 3 weekends in a row? You're basically DQ'ed out of the following 2 if you lose your materials on the first one if you can't get a loaner while you wait, because you're sure as hell not buying another Core Set for 1 tile.

I'm bringing both my tiles and printed maps to Worlds but I'm expecting to be forced to use the tiles. Maybe they'd let me get away with it in the Swiss but I'd imagine that the bracket would be 100% tiles, especially if it's a match they're streaming, for PR and marketing purposes, naturally.

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I have been to three store tournaments for IA. The first one there was only four of us. So I placed in the top four. LOL The next two it was just me there. So basically the tournaments in my area are really low. I also feel that it is the expense of trying to keep up. I almost chose to not get the latest wave till Cool Stuff Inc. had it on sale. Plus I used the printable skirmish maps at the store tournaments. I think that Asmodee/FFG really need to rethink some of the tournament rules. Such as the printed maps. When pixartprinting has a sale it is cheap to print them. That way people will carry the three legal maps and can use them and it is quicker to setup. Just my opinion. If they don't want to use the ones we have. Maybe they should print them even on paper to use at those tournaments where the use of the ones we have are not legal. It is cheaper to print them on paper and they will be FFG legal.

Actually, I don't have any Problem with buying all the needed expansions to be tournament legal. But I have a big problem with all the time that gets wasted while puzzling the maps.

By the way: Outside of the US, everyone I know is using printed maps, even up to national championships. On the last nationals I've been to, the TO even had preprinted maps for everyone.

I'm a TO myself. Printing IBSH's maps is so cheap, that I usually have enough maps for every player attending.

Map rotation announced today:

Starting August 1st, the legal maps—and their accompanying missions—for the season are: Nelvaanian War Zone, Training Ground, and Coruscant Landfill .

Where is that posted bud I can't see it sorry?