sigh

Deadeye isn't the problem.

Is too.

One could just as easily argue that guidance chips are the problem. Without that guaranteed blank to hit conversion it wouldn't be nearly as scary

I flew against a Uboat list at a tournament. He fired all 6 torps, the only ship I lost was Palob (he did his job though, and survived much longer then he should have), and half points on Manaroo. 2 torps where spent on Palob. The first was used to weaken him and my opponent had hoped to finish him off with a primary. Instead, Palob survived for 3 extra turns, handing out focuses with mindlink. My opponent spent a second torp just to finish him off, and also because I never allowed him the chance to shoot at my other ships. Guri ate the other 4 torps, and remained on the board. I destroyed one boat, and got half points on another before time was called. At that point, my opponent admitted that if it weren't for the time being called, I could have easily taken his whole fleet out. Uboats hit hard and consistent, you just gotta know how to out fly them, out fly your opponent, run proper defensive upgrades, and don't let them focus on a single target. Everyone thinks they are OP and that the star viper is useless. Guri with Autothrusters, sensor jammer and mindlink is what's OP!

sigh

Deadeye isn't the problem.

Is too.

One could just as easily argue that guidance chips are the problem. Without that guaranteed blank to hit conversion it wouldn't be nearly as scary

Without a modification like Chips or Longe-Range Scanners, ordnance is rarely worth using.

The problem with Deadeye is the way it changes the information and decision-making process for ordnance. It makes range restrictions less consequential, and allows targeting decisions to be made when a ship activates during the Combat phase--when the player has MUCH more information. That didn't cause a problem when ordnance was generally expensive and ineffective, because typically it just meant throwing good points after bad.

But in the Extra Munitions + Chips/Scanners metagame, it either needs to be unique or more expensive.

sigh

Deadeye isn't the problem.

Is too.

One could just as easily argue that guidance chips are the problem. Without that guaranteed blank to hit conversion it wouldn't be nearly as scary

Without a modification like Chips or Longe-Range Scanners, ordnance is rarely worth using.

The problem with Deadeye is the way it changes the information and decision-making process for ordnance. It makes range restrictions less consequential, and allows targeting decisions to be made when a ship activates during the Combat phase--when the player has MUCH more information. That didn't cause a problem when ordnance was generally expensive and ineffective, because typically it just meant throwing good points after bad.

But in the Extra Munitions + Chips/Scanners metagame, it either needs to be unique or more expensive.

I think scouts with deadeye and r4 before the FAQ would have been just fine without chips.

And without deadeye, its basically pointless to even bother trying to use ordnance on low PS ships.

sigh

Deadeye isn't the problem.

Is too.

One could just as easily argue that guidance chips are the problem. Without that guaranteed blank to hit conversion it wouldn't be nearly as scary

Without a modification like Chips or Longe-Range Scanners, ordnance is rarely worth using.

The problem with Deadeye is the way it changes the information and decision-making process for ordnance. It makes range restrictions less consequential, and allows targeting decisions to be made when a ship activates during the Combat phase--when the player has MUCH more information. That didn't cause a problem when ordnance was generally expensive and ineffective, because typically it just meant throwing good points after bad.

But in the Extra Munitions + Chips/Scanners metagame, it either needs to be unique or more expensive.

I think scouts with deadeye and r4 before the FAQ would have been just fine without chips.

And without deadeye, its basically pointless to even bother trying to use ordnance on low PS ships.

I'm not suggesting Deadeye be removed from the game. I'm saying that you shouldn't be able to spam low-PS ships with ordnance and Deadeye; as with other facets of the list-building game, players considering ordnance should have to choose between having many ships that do something, or a small number of ships that do the same thing really well.

I flew against a Uboat list at a tournament. He fired all 6 torps, the only ship I lost was Palob (he did his job though, and survived much longer then he should have), and half points on Manaroo. 2 torps where spent on Palob. The first was used to weaken him and my opponent had hoped to finish him off with a primary. Instead, Palob survived for 3 extra turns, handing out focuses with mindlink. My opponent spent a second torp just to finish him off, and also because I never allowed him the chance to shoot at my other ships. Guri ate the other 4 torps, and remained on the board. I destroyed one boat, and got half points on another before time was called. At that point, my opponent admitted that if it weren't for the time being called, I could have easily taken his whole fleet out. Uboats hit hard and consistent, you just gotta know how to out fly them, out fly your opponent, run proper defensive upgrades, and don't let them focus on a single target. Everyone thinks they are OP and that the star viper is useless. Guri with Autothrusters, sensor jammer and mindlink is what's OP!

Well this anecdotal evidence has me sold!

But seriously though...

We can't look at individual stories and get the whole picture. Give the FAQ some time to settle in and then let's make observations.

Honestly though, I am more worried about 2 Jumps and a Buddy than I am about U-Boats because those two Js can still make fair use of R4 and maybe even now have the justification they need to take more and better upgrades. Nerf Triple Jumps will you? I'll just make two of them better!

Also I am really leery of doing anything to Deadeye. That card was so unloved and now it is a staple of any ordnance list, now and going forward. Do we really want to hamstring ordnance squads before they're even born? Looking at you Gamma Squad Vets...

Why are most of the topics you start on here simply moans about FFG decisions? Do you derive no joy from this game at all? Perhaps, just perchance, it's not everyone else that's the problem...

3-4 hits sounds good. What is the new hit rate for plasmas and protons?

Assuming GC and they have a focus token from OCR4? Approximate figures are:

4 hits (74%), 3 hits (21%), 2 hits (4.5%), 1 hit (0.5%)

Raw numbers are the same because proton torps have a focus effect.

They half 1 focus effect.

Never thrown 3 eyeballs and a blank?

Or 4 blanks?

hell, we have. and now the only thing standing between damage chances and "spend a torp with 0% chance to penetrate they meter-thick level of ace-token-stack" is gone.

Sure thing, but it gives another thing. It allows you not to require R3 to get the TL

Because when you need R3 to get that, filthy boosting ace will get his R1 "close and personal" in a moment. As if game wasn't infested with boosting maggotry.

sigh

Deadeye isn't the problem.

Is too.

One could just as easily argue that guidance chips are the problem. Without that guaranteed blank to hit conversion it wouldn't be nearly as scary

Without a modification like Chips or Longe-Range Scanners, ordnance is rarely worth using.

The problem with Deadeye is the way it changes the information and decision-making process for ordnance. It makes range restrictions less consequential, and allows targeting decisions to be made when a ship activates during the Combat phase--when the player has MUCH more information. That didn't cause a problem when ordnance was generally expensive and ineffective, because typically it just meant throwing good points after bad.

But in the Extra Munitions + Chips/Scanners metagame, it either needs to be unique or more expensive.

If Scouts were nerfed into the ground, no one would jump to other ordnance based lists. You just wouldn't see much of it.

It seems that many of you guys that hate U-Boats don't want ordnance to actually be effective. That's fine to think that, but that you hate effective ordnance because Deadeye allows you to choose targets in the combat phase when you have MUCH more information while being okay with Palp Aces ships being able to boost after everyone else when you have MUCH more information is something that's inconsistent to me.

There is a player in my area that was complaining about ordnance and that guidance chips should cost 1 point. This player would play 65 point RAC+Soontir and Palp Aces for multiple weeks in a row, yet ordnance is too powerful and undercosted. I don't get why everyone fixates on U-Boats when Palp Aces ruins the game just as much if not more. Why?

I'd give the changes a bit more time to settle in. U-Boats certainly are more restricted in where they go now, allowing for new tactics when flying against them.

By the way I would be rather not amused if Deadeye were unique, since it gives the Gamma Vet one of its viable configurations.

Contracted scouts nerfed after FFGs FAQ? Ha nope. Yes using 4R Agromech is pointless. However, Overclocked Astromech is used instead, sometimes Recon Specialist to avoid stress. It still gets 3-4 hits, rarely 2 hits after the scout fire its torpedo - worse, proton torpedo is used instead of plasma...

Contracted Scouts could have been balanced if:

It had 4 Hull and 5 Shields instead - flechette torpedo would work then, give out 1 stress each attack. Also more use of Plasma Torpedo

Lose 1 torpedo slot.

Cost more to use - should cost similar to Wild Space Fighter (YT-2400) Around 31 points.

---

What I'm quite sure is never going to happen: FFG nerfing a ship via declaring that the stats on the card are just flat-out wrong.

I flew against a Uboat list at a tournament. He fired all 6 torps, the only ship I lost was Palob (he did his job though, and survived much longer then he should have), and half points on Manaroo. 2 torps where spent on Palob. The first was used to weaken him and my opponent had hoped to finish him off with a primary. Instead, Palob survived for 3 extra turns, handing out focuses with mindlink. My opponent spent a second torp just to finish him off, and also because I never allowed him the chance to shoot at my other ships. Guri ate the other 4 torps , and remained on the board. I destroyed one boat, and got half points on another before time was called. At that point, my opponent admitted that if it weren't for the time being called, I could have easily taken his whole fleet out. Uboats hit hard and consistent, you just gotta know how to out fly them, out fly your opponent, run proper defensive upgrades , and don't let them focus on a single target. Everyone thinks they are OP and that the star viper is useless. Guri with Autothrusters, sensor jammer and mindlink is what's OP!

Overclocked is the superior choice over aggromech anyway, as your example proves. This faq is just getting scout players to evolve to the better build anyway, not nerfing the ship at all.

Point in case, your guri would never survive 4 torps from an overclocked scout: sensor jammer has been coincidentally nerfed. The best defensive upgrade in the game is now totally ineffective against the best damage dealer in the game.

Why is overclocked better? R4 gave target lock which is better chance of crits and doesn't cause stress which means once you've unloaded your ordnance you are still able to take actions get your free target locks and use barrel roll etc.

Overclocked is the superior choice over aggromech

Only against Sensor Jammer enemy.

And still can't say it's so, because you simply smiled and used PTorp or Chips anyway and re-rolled the other results.

There's no statistical difference between plasma chips with focus and plasma chips with tl.

The stress is a problem, but it just means a different playstyle - alternating torps and green-move blocks. The ship becomes much harder to kill too, with defensive focus always available. Finally, the build allows for a 4 point initiative bid, or a choice from the excellent scum crew upgrades - zuckuss, dengar, 4-lom.

Honestly, it seems scout players were migrating towards overclocked as the superior choice anyway. The only loss was the boba/aggro/proton build. That's it, really.

There's no statistical difference between plasma chips with focus and plasma chips with tl.

The stress is a problem, but it just means a different playstyle - alternating torps and green-move blocks. The ship becomes much harder to kill too, with defensive focus always available. Finally, the build allows for a 4 point initiative bid, or a choice from the excellent scum crew upgrades - zuckuss, dengar, 4-lom.

Honestly, it seems scout players were migrating towards overclocked as the superior choice anyway. The only loss was the boba/aggro/proton build. That's it, really.

Statistical difference is statistical bullship. With Ordnance list you have that one window of opportunity to fire off the torp. If you lose it and don't deal any damage, you're toasted. Even 3\4 isn't enough to penetrate the concrete wall of Focus+Evade+Autothruster+Palp on 3-4 dice.

It wasn't a superior choice ever. It was only useful in mirror matches due to being 1 point cheaper. Nothing else here.

Proton torp on R4 aggro had 4\4 damage with crit almost auto-included.

Plasma torp had almost the same 3,75 chance to 4\4

Without R4 getting 2\4 or 3\4 is your statistical average.

aaaaand you can get the stress and don't roll any eyeballs. While TL works on blanks just as well.

how can guri take the sensor jammer upgrade, since is a System slot?

do i miss something?

how can guri take the sensor jammer upgrade, since is a System slot?

do i miss something?

There is "Virago" title for starviper, gives System and Illicit slots.

ok noob madness here

thank you

SCARM YOU STUPID SOB YOU!!!

SCARM YOU STUPID SOB YOU!!!

SCARM YOU STUPID SOB YOU!!!

"Statistical difference is statistical bullship."

- There is no difference in expected damage between a chip/plasma overclocked and a chip/plasma aggro'd. That's not 'bull', that's a true statement: they both deliver an expected 3.7 points of damage.

"It wasn't a superior choice ever. It was only useful in mirror matches due to being 1 point cheaper. Nothing else here."

- A plasma with zuckuss or 4-lom on board is a lot scarier to Soontir, for example, than a proton aggro - that's another nailed on fact (and still 1pt cheaper). Ghost, Zuckuss, Deci, Corran, etc all hate the extra shield damage too.

"aaaaand you can get the stress and don't roll any eyeballs. While TL works on blanks just as well."

- That tells me you haven't really run overclocked very much. I mean, neither have I, but I at least know how the card works! You don't take the stress unless you need another focus. Basically, the odds are that 2/3rds of the time you will have to take a stress for an extra focus token. But that's the not the end of the world, as I was saying, it seems to have had little impact on the alpha strike of the list, just the turn after - before the white sloop was optimal, now the bump is.

- There were three regionals the day after the faq, and two of them were won by overclocked scouts. plus ça change...

- Finally, in the endgame, the scouts get tankier in exchange for being less deadly with their turrets. A fair trade for a 1-2pts cheaper ship.

"Statistical difference is statistical bullship."

- There is no difference in expected damage between a chip/plasma overclocked and a chip/plasma aggro'd. That's not 'bull', that's a true statement: they both deliver an expected 3.7 points of damage.

"Statistical difference is statistical bullship."

- There is no difference in expected damage between a chip/plasma overclocked and a chip/plasma aggro'd. That's not 'bull', that's a true statement: they both deliver an expected 3.7 points of damage.

Up until the point when you roll some blanks. Chips will save you from one, but any others you can do nothing with. Also, if you have just one eyeball and at least one blank, taking a stress for converting one die seems much less appealing than just using the free TL.

Correct. Although something is on average the same, it doesn't translate into everyday impact. For example, 1.3 people are killed by giant asteroids every year. Target Locks also give you better odds for rolling natural crits (~33% chance rerolling 3 dice).

The stress is also valuable to the opponent, since a simple Flechette Cannon at PS4 can inflict stress beforehand which will prevent a second round of torpedoes.