So, one of my players is interested in this power, because from what we understand, it basically allows you to vanish from the enemy's sight for one round, provided you're in their line of sight and in short range or closer.

This means he can disappear, and then surprise the enemy, correct?

Also I'm having trouble finding rules in the book describing surprise, as in when you attack someone and they are completely unaware of it.

But, the description says it can't be activated multiple times. Does this mean you can only do it once per encounter? And if not, how often?

Ok first off i would ask for an opposed Discipline v Discipline (if target is force sensitive) or Discipline v Perception for this power if the target is an important Rival or any Nemesis.

There are no guidelines for attacking a target who is unaware of you, a free upgrade is probably a good starting point, or decrease the difficulty of the combat check by 1. Boost is another option, but it would probably need to be at least 2 if not 3 for that level of surprise.

As an important balancing factor i would also remind the player that unprovoked attacks are a thing of the Dark Side and will provide the PC with a certain amount of Conflict additional to any gained from the use of Dark Side pips to activate the Power.

There are none, because it's left up to the GM's discretion. I usually add 1 to 2 Boosts to an attack from surprise, depending on how unable to react the target is.

But there is something you have to realize about Misdirect: activating the power takes your action, meaning you can't attack on the same turn you use it, and it lasts until the start of your next turn. Now, I rule that if you use Misdirect again immediately (your action to use the power is the first thing you do) you stay invisible, but generally you won't be able to attack someone while invisible unless you've invested in (and activated) the duration upgrade.

What the description means by it can't be activated multiple times is that you can't spend 3 Force Points and become invisible to 3 people without using the Magnitude upgrade too. You can use the power as many times per encounter as you wish, it just takes an action each time you do.

As an example, let's say you always roll 4 Force Points when you use Misdirect (very unlikely, I know, but work with me here ). If you only have the basic power, three of those points are useless - you can spend 1 to become invisible to one person within short range, but that's it. When you buy a range upgrade, each Force Point you spend increases the range by 1 band. But no matter what, you're only affecting one target. However, once you get the Magnitude upgrade, you can spend 2 of your points to make yourself invisible to more people.

for a guide on how to handle the attacking while concealed i took a look at FaD core p219. the concealment section talks about modifiers for attacking or using concealment for sneaking. I would go straight to the +3 boost there and use that.

Ohhhhh. It's clear now. Thank you!!!

Ok wait, but there's this upgrade:

Commit (2 Force dice) to sustain this power while the beguiled target remains in range.

THIS would allow for stealth pewpew right.

I would assume so.

Yep it sure does. The Dark Side always finds a way!!!

Hahaha yeah, I told the player "That's one quick way to rack up some Conflict, man."

There are so many better uses for this power then the tired I turn invisible use.

There are so many better uses for this power then the tired I turn invisible use.

This is beside the point and does not contribute to the post, although I do agree. This player just seems to always have a very Dark Side oriented line of thought about everything, it's amazing!

Also, it's not necessarily so much a matter of "turn invisible", so much a matter of making yourself "unnoticeable" to the enemy's senses.The old D6 system had a equivalent power called Dim Another's Senses, which reduced your enemies' Perception rolls, making it harder for them to notice you. Of course as you advance in the power, you can create illusions and such. But, once again. these only affect the targets of your power. The effects are in their minds, whereas other passersby who weren't the target of your power still see you (your ship, or whatever else you're trying to obscure).

If, say, a player used misdirect base power and the only target was a minion group, per the rules for the power it only affects a single minion in that group?

No the power would affect the entire minion group, minions keep things simple so always treat a group as a single thing

That's good to know. Makes sense.

It depends on how you want to handle it.

1. I'd give 2 bonus dice to hit for the whole misdirect thing.

2. I'd give 2 set backs on the opponents attack rolls for having to use other senses to try and hit them.

3. I would consider the weapon they are using to be a second sil 0 object that is visible if they draw it. The reason being that while holstered, sheathed, clipped to the belt its considered to be a part of them, but once drawn unless they use misdirect again they make it visible as its no longer part of the original illusion effect. The same thing would apply for anything they pull out of backpacks or pick up along the way.

Keep in mind the wording if Misdirect says that the target cannot PERCEIVE the subject, not simply that they can't see them. That means the ensorcelled target cannot hear, see, smell, or anything the person who has been vanished. I would throw 5 Setbacks against trying to attack someone so totally imperceptible, but that's just me.

Also, I would disagree about a drawn weapon being perceivable and a holstered one being not. That screams "D&D Magic" much more than "Force Powers" to me.

I just had a thought. Could a player use Influence to trick someone into thinking they have bad eyesight? Like make them see things all blurred?

I don't think so; Misdirect has two people it works on: the target and the subject. The target is the one whose mind you're messing with, and the subject is the one whom the target cannot properly perceive. There isn't really a way, with that sort of setup, to blur the entirety of a target's senses.

Perhaps with the mastery that lets you create multiple illusions, and with enough Strength upgrades activated, you could effectively use the "Alter" control upgrade to create that effect, and perhaps as a GM I might allow it if you got enough points, but as written, no. That's not a thing that you can do.

EDIT: I'm so sorry! I didn't read your post thoroughly enough to realize that you'd changed to talking about Influence, not Misdirect! Let's see...

Once again, I think the answer is "no." Influence is about altering how someone's mind works, either subtly (with the "Social Grace" Control upgrade), overtly (with the "Mind Trick" upgrade), or saying "Screw This," and using the basic power to give them an aneurism. You could clearly Mind Trick them and make them believe "We are not here to hurt you," when you clearly are here to hurt them, or you could send them a blast of happiness so they feel content and not want to resist you, but I don't think that you could alter how they perceive their surroundings; that's the purview of the Misdirect power, and brings us back to my original post.

That's an interesting idea, possibly. It would be less of a "you don't see anything" and more of a "what you see is not a threat". Or even "your response to threat is to smile and wave". Misdirect changes what your senses tell your brain, Influence changes the way the brain reacts to those senses and also it's emotions.

It's worth noting that this is only really useful against one target when you're a starter character. Having used Misdirect for a character I'd have to say there are better uses for your XP than this power if all you want to do is hit people while invisible. More so when you consider starting characters only have 1 Force Dice.

It's worth noting that this is only really useful against one target when you're a starter character. Having used Misdirect for a character I'd have to say there are better uses for your XP than this power if all you want to do is hit people while invisible. More so when you consider starting characters only have 1 Force Dice.

Yeah but it's super handy simply for bypassing problems. Everyone's talking about using it to shiv people in the dark, but I keep thinking of using it to bypass a security guard at a checkpoint without even making him aware of you at all. Being able to avoid that spot ship inspection by the Empire without actually having to suit up and stick to the outside of the hull, seeing as you have a bounty on your head for helping your sister escape Imperial reconditioning. Being able to escape from a hostage situation and escape so you can call for help. Tons of useful applications of the ability to obfuscate yourself from your opponents senses.

If a person is only thinking of using this in combat, they are sorely under-utilizing this powerful ability.

Our favorite martial mustelid has a very good point: Misdirect, just like any other illusion power, requires you to be very cunning to use to its full ability. Both for the character and the player. I had a self-made super heroes game and one of the characters was an illusionist. However, since the player wasn't very creative, she had trouble using her abilities to the full of her potential. The other players and I helped out at much as we could, of course, but it wasn't quite the same.

Misdirect functions on the same principle: you need to be creative and think outside the box to really get the most use out of it. Going invisible is the most simplistic use. A very nice one, to be sure: being able to get past just about anyone you want with ease is amazing. But those first two Control upgrades can make you incredible difficult to pin down if you know what you're doing.

Also - Firefly reference. I most verily approve .

It's worth noting that this is only really useful against one target when you're a starter character. Having used Misdirect for a character I'd have to say there are better uses for your XP than this power if all you want to do is hit people while invisible. More so when you consider starting characters only have 1 Force Dice.

Yeah but it's super handy simply for bypassing problems. Everyone's talking about using it to shiv people in the dark, but I keep thinking of using it to bypass a security guard at a checkpoint without even making him aware of you at all. Being able to avoid that spot ship inspection by the Empire without actually having to suit up and stick to the outside of the hull, seeing as you have a bounty on your head for helping your sister escape Imperial reconditioning. Being able to escape from a hostage situation and escape so you can call for help. Tons of useful applications of the ability to obfuscate yourself from your opponents senses.

If a person is only thinking of using this in combat, they are sorely under-utilizing this powerful ability.

I'm not saying it's not useful for other things. I've found it very useful (if not a bit unreliable at times on one FD without wanting to take Dark pips). My point was that it kinda sucks as a combat power when you're starting fresh and don't have higher than a Force Rating of 1. There are better ways to spend your xp than on turning invisible to stab people.

If you're picking up Misdirect to do a number of things then it's a nice power to have. If you're picking the power so that you can knife people from stealth mode then you're better off going with a different Force Power and a different tactic. I don't think the player will be happy with the proposed use in the long run.

Our favorite martial mustelid has a very good point:

I'm someone's favorite! I feel special!

Also - Firefly reference. I most verily approve .

I felt confident someone on this site would get that one.

I'm not saying it's not useful for other things. I've found it very useful (if not a bit unreliable at times on one FD without wanting to take Dark pips). My point was that it kinda sucks as a combat power when you're starting fresh and don't have higher than a Force Rating of 1. There are better ways to spend your xp than on turning invisible to stab people.

Oh I know that's not all you meant, I just wanted to point out that there are tons of applications for that power that nobody had addressed in the thread yet. Personally I think it's a super useful power even at Force Rating 1. But yeah it does have the same problem every other power has at FR 1, which is inconsistent usage if you are avoiding DS pips. Well every power except the ones that allow you to commit that die.

If you're picking up Misdirect to do a number of things then it's a nice power to have. If you're picking the power so that you can knife people from stealth mode then you're better off going with a different Force Power and a different tactic. I don't think the player will be happy with the proposed use in the long run.

I've never actually looked at this for combat purposes, but what would the result be of a simple stealth check in combat for this very purpose? I mean, that would honestly be the easier thing, what with having skill ranks, multiple dice, not worrying about having enough pips, or having to take Conflict to do so.

How do you guys generally handle this in combat. The "I want to roll stealth to hide and then sneak up behind him and stab him while he shoots at my friends!" tactic. Which to me, seems way more viable for this kind of combat, at least low XP wise anyway. You could likely get the exact same results functionally, without having to try and use a Force power with only 1 die.