Wasn't there a thread recently where people argued that the Tournament scene was the most tolerant group of guys? All the attitude was the Casual players who demanded things? Here is a guy that wants a conversation about a ship he likes and it's 4 pages of people saying how the ship sucks and should never be used.

Your point? He can still bring the ship to the table, it was bad before, it is still bad. On the grand scale of things nothing changed.

And speaking of nothing changed, the topic was dead on arrival as well.

The point is that just because it's not good in tournament play doesn't mean it's not a good ship. I've used it in a number of missions and it's been an utter ace. It's a situational ship that perhaps doesn't shine in 100 pt death match. That doesn't mean it's a bad ship. There are a lot of ways to play the game.

Tournament play isn't the end all be all of X-wing.

...that sounds like it would generate the maximum amount of fun that is possible with pants and/or without cheese. It took mgr a little bit to figure out how the sensors fit in there. Problem is, I'm at work right now, so I have to suppress the giggling.

I would say that this doesn't kill Redline in general (he's still good), however it does kill any Punisher/Cluster Missile/FCS combo.Personally I enjoyed that combo, but I'm willing to pay that price to nerf triple UBoats.

The fcs nerf didn't do anything to uboats. This nerf ruined the punisher completely and only affects the ghost with tlt. I don't see why this was even needed. You don't see a lot of tlt on vcx-100's anyway.

The only reason I could possibly see is that something new is coming with a system slot AND possibly turret or missiles...and has at least 2 defence dice.

I certainly never saw anyone cry about the punisher being OP and needing a nerf - lol.

The point is that just because it's not good in tournament play doesn't mean it's not a good ship. I've used it in a number of missions and it's been an utter ace. It's a situational ship that perhaps doesn't shine in 100 pt death match. That doesn't mean it's a bad ship. There are a lot of ways to play the game.

Tournament play isn't the end all be all of X-wing.

If there were more mission based games we would see more ships played overall. More generic pilots, more variety of aces depending on the need. Slow and tanky or quick in and out; maybe something in between or a bit of both is needed.

Situational ships would then not be outliers but the go-to ship depending on the mission.

Just my two cents.

A interesting thought. Gimme a few.

Well, I have 4...

I've only got the one, and games where I field it are usually my favorites, even when I lose(which is more often than not). How much fun are multi-Punisher squads?

I'll expect my cut in the mail.

If I am honest, I have only used two at the same time maximum, because I really can't get myself to use the generics. Thats fun, though. Redline and Deathrain are both high priority targets for your opponent, so they make target priority difficult.

I am curious to try 3 with EM, Proton Bombs and Advanced Sensors, though. Then, with one of them beong repainted as First Order craft, I might have justified my purchase.

Or try 3 Black Eights, all with FCS, EM, Advanced Homing Missiles, Thermals, and GC/LRS

Bonus points if you can drop your bomb when you reveal a 4K, then shoot them with your missiles.

I had this same problem with 40k, where the casual and meta-breakers had to justify spending money on products that only looked good because they played like crap. In armies like Chaos Marines who needed to be babysit by Forgeworld and Demons on a regular basis to make level ground.

That being said, I'm more interested to see what new munitions and upgrades are worth it on Redline. Kinda ironic that I switched to Deathrain before hearing about this patch, which still doesn't fix pricing balances.

Without Cluster Missiles, it is almost not worth it for FCS on Redline. Well...unless you expect ships to still be alive after the first volley. You can go with another System or save the points. Even going without makes Redline more streamlined. That's 33 pts for Redline with Extra Munitions and a 4 pt Ordnance. That's not bad.

Without jm5k benefits of a pwt, white seggys or deadeye, it's pretty bad

Tomax with homing may be missing 3 shields, but he is superior in just about every other way

Without Cluster Missiles, it is almost not worth it for FCS on Redline. Well...unless you expect ships to still be alive after the first volley. You can go with another System or save the points. Even going without makes Redline more streamlined. That's 33 pts for Redline with Extra Munitions and a 4 pt Ordnance. That's not bad.

I've not done the math but isn't Redline without FCS but with Cluster Missiles and Guidance Chip still effective? That is three dice with a guarantee of one hit before you use your second Target Lock. If you did use the Target Lock on the first attack you would still have another three dice attack with one hit guaranteed.

[edit] P.S. the TLT Y-Wing still seems far more cost effective. Add an R-2, BTL you have more green maneuvers and 8 points cheaper for Gold Squadron but then lower Pilot Skill too.

The point is that just because it's not good in tournament play doesn't mean it's not a good ship. I've used it in a number of missions and it's been an utter ace. It's a situational ship that perhaps doesn't shine in 100 pt death match. That doesn't mean it's a bad ship. There are a lot of ways to play the game.

Tournament play isn't the end all be all of X-wing.

If there were more mission based games we would see more ships played overall. More generic pilots, more variety of aces depending on the need. Slow and tanky or quick in and out; maybe something in between or a bit of both is needed.

Situational ships would then not be outliers but the go-to ship depending on the mission.

Just my two cents.

Fun and good are unrelated.

I need to thank you. Your words were the final nail in the coffin of my desire to EVER enter a tournament, and as such, you've probably saved me quite a bit of money and stress.

Don't let some forum guy ruin it for you. Tournaments are fun. You get to play a ton of X-Wing, (nearly) everyone is very friendly, and most people go for the experience and as a day out... and keep going back. In my experience, losing a game or two at the beginning can actually make for the best tournament experience, as the pressure's off so you just get to play fun games of X-wing where you and your opponent are relaxed and just want to fly toy ships around for an hour, recreating space battles.

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