Uh...r4 errata didn't make over clocked better

Hell, the main reason you took over clocked was to bid AGAINST r4 torpscouts

Now jm5ks can't torp, white segs and torp again

Hell, they can't even Torp, move right and torp again

Their pwts also suffer from lack of rerolls that r4 aggro provided

All in all, it's pretty **** significant

Easily? Heck, I had to push people to even read the FAQs to begin with.

This is a strange thing to me. Everyone I play with endeavors to play the game by the rules and the FAQ is the rules as much as anything else.

Not everyone wants to play the game the right way...

*walks away slowly*

Uh...r4 errata didn't make over clocked better

Hell, the main reason you took over clocked was to bid AGAINST r4 torpscouts

Yeah it did. It stayed the same and the more expensive equivalent got worse. It's relative power increased. Taking overclocked+1 point crew is better than R4 agro hands down.

Yeah it did. It stayed the same and the more expensive equivalent got worse. It's relative power increased. Taking overclocked+1 point crew is better than R4 agro hands down.

The 'relative power' compared to r4 is irrelevant. Everything got more powerful compared to deadeye + r4 since deadeye + r4 is dead now. Overclocked is just empirically weaker than r4 and any weakening of the jump lists is generally considered an ok thing.

Yeah it did. It stayed the same and the more expensive equivalent got worse. It's relative power increased. Taking overclocked+1 point crew is better than R4 agro hands down.

The 'relative power' compared to r4 is irrelevant. Everything got more powerful compared to deadeye + r4 since deadeye + r4 is dead now. Overclocked is just empirically weaker than r4 and any weakening of the jump lists is generally considered an ok thing.

yup, basically this

overclocked only got better relative to the previously superior option. it is completely unchanged from its original incarnation

not to mention you only took overclocked anyway to directly counter the superior option in a mirror match, or to throw 4lom on the jumpmaster with r4 aggro

overclocked is far weaker than r4 aggro.

First, you can't re-roll your attack dice with overclocked. This is a huge blow to the flexibility of the jm5k, which could actually punch throw aces using full modifiers + 4-lom on its 2 dice primary. Now? no re-rolls from overclocked, just a defensive focus maybe provided you've been able to manuever around the stress you're getting with that asymetrical dial

Second, you can't fire consequetive torpedoes with overclocked unless you go foward or turn left (no white segnors)

what you could do, ie secure intitiative to block opposing r4 aggro lists while keeping your own focus...well, you probably won't be seeing deadeye r4 jumpies anymore

Even the best r4 jumps with rec spec are hurting because they lost their favorite spend focus to get lock then spend focus trick. They max at one of each modification now.

Yeah it did. It stayed the same and the more expensive equivalent got worse. It's relative power increased. Taking overclocked+1 point crew is better than R4 agro hands down.

The 'relative power' compared to r4 is irrelevant. Everything got more powerful compared to deadeye + r4 since deadeye + r4 is dead now. Overclocked is just empirically weaker than r4 and any weakening of the jump lists is generally considered an ok thing.

Empirically weaker eh? Got anything empircal to back that up?

Overclocked was common before this. It helped with initiative bids, slotting in cheap crew, trimming points for a 3rd non-jump bids, and it could be used defensively an unlimited number of times per turn.

Let's put it this way, if you see this list across the table:

(3x) Scout, Proton, EM, Overclocked R4, Chips (total: 99)

You're feeling significantly better than a triple jump list with R4 agromech?

Easily? Heck, I had to push people to even read the FAQs to begin with.

This is a strange thing to me. Everyone I play with endeavors to play the game by the rules and the FAQ is the rules as much as anything else.

When I'm the only one of the group who has time to waste on these forums/etc, it kind of makes more sense.

The only elements of this FAQ that are any good (GONK, Stygium/discard) we were already using anyway. Plans are to implement bomb-speed rules in a few weeks as well.

Yeah it did. It stayed the same and the more expensive equivalent got worse. It's relative power increased. Taking overclocked+1 point crew is better than R4 agro hands down.

The 'relative power' compared to r4 is irrelevant. Everything got more powerful compared to deadeye + r4 since deadeye + r4 is dead now. Overclocked is just empirically weaker than r4 and any weakening of the jump lists is generally considered an ok thing.

Empirically weaker eh? Got anything empircal to back that up?

Overclocked was common before this. It helped with initiative bids, slotting in cheap crew, trimming points for a 3rd non-jump bids, and it could be used defensively an unlimited number of times per turn.

Let's put it this way, if you see this list across the table:

(3x) Scout, Proton, EM, Overclocked R4, Chips (total: 99)

You're feeling significantly better than a triple jump list with R4 agromech?

proton and overclocked are compltely redundant (both give focus modifications)

also overclocked was common, for the expressed purposes of getting initiative v the mirror match, but there was always at least one r4 aggro scout

if you played him (esp with 4-lom), you'd know that that guy was the lynchpin and the only competent late game torp scouts were capable of putting out

he's gone now

Crits and hits are so identical in effect as to be "completely redundant"? You must get the luckiest crits, because they tend to cause problems in my games.

Lando can however use two Evades on two different attacks, yes?

-Cal

Crits and hits are so identical in effect as to be "completely redundant"? You must get the luckiest crits, because they tend to cause problems in my games.

you've never hit shields with crits before?

or drawn that garbage that disallows straight moves for a turn?

yes, the difference between crits and hits is so minor that you're better off using that saved point for literally almost anything else, all while enjoying the benefit of plasma's extra shield damage ( especially against the coming storm of Veteran Defenders)

unless you want to run boba, ofc, but then you're going to feel the sting of the errata as r4 aggro's re-rolls + proton focus mods was far more reliable than even 4 dice + focus + chips

Yeah it did. It stayed the same and the more expensive equivalent got worse. It's relative power increased. Taking overclocked+1 point crew is better than R4 agro hands down.

The 'relative power' compared to r4 is irrelevant. Everything got more powerful compared to deadeye + r4 since deadeye + r4 is dead now. Overclocked is just empirically weaker than r4 and any weakening of the jump lists is generally considered an ok thing.

Empirically weaker eh? Got anything empircal to back that up?

Overclocked was common before this. It helped with initiative bids, slotting in cheap crew, trimming points for a 3rd non-jump bids, and it could be used defensively an unlimited number of times per turn.

Let's put it this way, if you see this list across the table:

(3x) Scout, Proton, EM, Overclocked R4, Chips (total: 99)

You're feeling significantly better than a triple jump list with R4 agromech?

proton and overclocked are compltely redundant (both give focus modifications)

And sure, the focus could convert them all, but if you arent against shields the free crit helps

Yeah it did. It stayed the same and the more expensive equivalent got worse. It's relative power increased. Taking overclocked+1 point crew is better than R4 agro hands down.

The 'relative power' compared to r4 is irrelevant. Everything got more powerful compared to deadeye + r4 since deadeye + r4 is dead now. Overclocked is just empirically weaker than r4 and any weakening of the jump lists is generally considered an ok thing.

Empirically weaker eh? Got anything empircal to back that up?

Overclocked was common before this. It helped with initiative bids, slotting in cheap crew, trimming points for a 3rd non-jump bids, and it could be used defensively an unlimited number of times per turn.

Let's put it this way, if you see this list across the table:

(3x) Scout, Proton, EM, Overclocked R4, Chips (total: 99)

You're feeling significantly better than a triple jump list with R4 agromech?

proton and overclocked are compltely redundant (both give focus modifications)

. Cause its totally impossible to roll more than 1 eyeball on 4 dice...

And sure, the focus could convert them all, but if you arent against shields the free crit helps

so you're going to pay a point and eat stress for the fear of rolling the least likely result multiple times?

why not just do what everyone else did and run plasmas with overclocked?

They're cheaper, exactly as reliable (same mods; focus modifies all focus results in the unlikely event that multiples come up in such a way that can't be addressed by cheaps) and comes with a surprisingly useful shield-damage benefit we seem fond of overlooking

when 1 point buys you the awesomeness of 4-lom (or bids in a mirror), I don't think you'd want to spend it on something as marginally beneficial as a crit result from a focus you might not even roll, which is all you're getting when you go from plasmas to protons

without the re-rolls from r4 aggromech, they're far less attractive. Barring that, you can just run protons without the redundant overclocked if you're desperate to utilize boba fett

Empirically weaker eh? Got anything empircal to back that up?

Yeah, pretty easily pre-faq.

Shooting torps:

R4 - +25% to hit

Or4 - +25% to hit +1 stress (thus halving your dial and removing the real strength of the white sloop)

Shooting primaries:

R4 - +50% to hit on blanks you roll after the normal focus benefit

0r4 - no benefit other than normal focus benefit

It's kind of unquestionable that overclocked is worse than r4 pre-faq and I'm uncertain why you are arguing it. The reason it saw play was purely to counter other jump lists via initiative, not to be better somehow than the r4 option.

Empirically weaker eh? Got anything empircal to back that up?

Yeah, pretty easily pre-faq.

Shooting torps:

R4 - +25% to hit

Or4 - +25% to hit +1 stress (thus halving your dial and removing the real strength of the white sloop)

Shooting primaries:

R4 - +50% to hit on blanks you roll after the normal focus benefit

0r4 - no benefit other than normal focus benefit

It's kind of unquestionable that overclocked is worse than r4 pre-faq and I'm uncertain why you are arguing it. The reason it saw play was purely to counter other jump lists via initiative, not to be better somehow than the r4 option.

and now R4 is dead and UUU suddenly went downwards.

and now the ace-festering meta goes up. all of a sudden.

That's a slippery wet path that leads to damnation and PTL-infested top-8

Empirically weaker eh? Got anything empircal to back that up?

Yeah, pretty easily pre-faq.

Shooting torps:

R4 - +25% to hit

Or4 - +25% to hit +1 stress (thus halving your dial and removing the real strength of the white sloop)

Shooting primaries:

R4 - +50% to hit on blanks you roll after the normal focus benefit

0r4 - no benefit other than normal focus benefit

It's kind of unquestionable that overclocked is worse than r4 pre-faq and I'm uncertain why you are arguing it. The reason it saw play was purely to counter other jump lists via initiative, not to be better somehow than the r4 option.

and now R4 is dead and UUU suddenly went downwards.

and now the ace-festering meta goes up. all of a sudden.

That's a slippery wet path that leads to damnation and PTL-infested top-8

not really

we were ace infested even during the high tide of torpedo scouts, so it's not like losing them is going to change much

assuming we even lose them to such a degree, ofc

Empirically weaker eh? Got anything empircal to back that up?

Yeah, pretty easily pre-faq.

Shooting torps:

R4 - +25% to hit

Or4 - +25% to hit +1 stress (thus halving your dial and removing the real strength of the white sloop)

Shooting primaries:

R4 - +50% to hit on blanks you roll after the normal focus benefit

0r4 - no benefit other than normal focus benefit

It's kind of unquestionable that overclocked is worse than r4 pre-faq and I'm uncertain why you are arguing it. The reason it saw play was purely to counter other jump lists via initiative, not to be better somehow than the r4 option.

So we're going to continue to pretend there are no defensive benefits to overclocked? I know comparing things fairly tends to muddle "empirical" data.

What if Palpatine cost an epic point?

What if bank boost was made red?

Empirically weaker eh? Got anything empircal to back that up?

Yeah, pretty easily pre-faq.

Shooting torps:

R4 - +25% to hit

Or4 - +25% to hit +1 stress (thus halving your dial and removing the real strength of the white sloop)

Shooting primaries:

R4 - +50% to hit on blanks you roll after the normal focus benefit

0r4 - no benefit other than normal focus benefit

It's kind of unquestionable that overclocked is worse than r4 pre-faq and I'm uncertain why you are arguing it. The reason it saw play was purely to counter other jump lists via initiative, not to be better somehow than the r4 option.

Overclocked also greatly improves survival potential of a focused JM. When one of your JMs gets focused, it's often a certainty it will not live long enough to shoot both torps, so how much stress it has after shooting the first is largely irrelevant. Having Overclocked R4 might however mean the difference between dying before it shoots and living long enough to get 1 torp off.

That being said, the turret with overclocked absolutely sucks, especially vs 3 green dice imperials (token stacking not even needed, 1 focus or evade makes you largely impervious to JM turret fire as you get 2 evades on average, and the JM even at Range 1 struggles to get 3 hits). This means that, once the doom&gloom of 'OMG Jumpmasters are useless now' passes and FOTM people move on to Palp Aces (IMO there is a distinct possibility this will be hands down the best archetype in the game post this FAQ) we'll probably see a lot more 2 JMs+something else than 3 JMs.

Rebels still screwed I think, as I doubt JMs will go extinct enough to matter.

This is an exciting FAQ because it means we are going to be stacking evades on otherwise-vulnerable ships at some future date. Gives them design space.

It just nerfs the mighty Ezra Bridger with PTL and Jan Ors, giving 2 Evade token per turn. A pity.

Furthermore, Lando plus Experimental Interface (and Jan Ors) in VCX not working anymore

This is an exciting FAQ because it means we are going to be stacking evades on otherwise-vulnerable ships at some future date. Gives them design space.

It just nerfs the mighty Ezra Bridger with PTL and Jan Ors, giving 2 Evade token per turn. A pity.

Furthermore, Lando plus Experimental Interface (and Jan Ors) in VCX not working anymore

The evade change makes no sense whatsoever. AFAIK, Rebels are the only faction affected by this. It seems specifically targeted Lando crew and Jan crew--two cards that didn't need a nerf.

When Imperial aces are running amok and Rebels are struggling, the best thing to do is remove some rebel-specific defenses, right?......Right?

This is an exciting FAQ because it means we are going to be stacking evades on otherwise-vulnerable ships at some future date. Gives them design space.

It just nerfs the mighty Ezra Bridger with PTL and Jan Ors, giving 2 Evade token per turn. A pity.

Furthermore, Lando plus Experimental Interface (and Jan Ors) in VCX not working anymore

The evade change makes no sense whatsoever. AFAIK, Rebels are the only faction affected by this. It seems specifically targeted Lando crew and Jan crew--two cards that didn't need a nerf.

When Imperial aces are running amok and Rebels are struggling, the best thing to do is remove some rebel-specific defenses, right?......Right?

The evade change tied to the change that stops spending multiple focus and target locks to modify the same rolls. It wasn't a targeted change to nerf Lando. The same rule that permitted spending multiple evades is what permitted the other.

Defensive Ghost builds just got a considerable buff through the Reinforced Deflectors change. The odds of it triggering on an attack to restore a shield just went way up now that crits count towards triggering it.

What if Palpatine cost an epic point?

What if bank boost was made red?

What if FFG came out with a rule saying you weren't allowed to play Palp Aces. I could come up with a lot of things that are never going to happen.