At the moment this seems to be the key to diversify the meta..

The list should have ok amount of health, reliably deal a lot of stress, and preferably be a miniswarm, perhaps Imperial Veterans have provided us with a tool:

Scimitar Bomber (16pt)

Tie Shuttle (0pt)

Tactician (2pt)

Systems officer (2pt)

Scimitar Bomber (16pt)

Tie Shuttle (0pt)

Tactician (2pt)

Rebel Captive (3pt)

Scimitar Bomber (16pt)

Tie Shuttle (0pt)

Tactician (2pt)

Mara Jade (3pt)

Scimitar Bomber (16pt)

Tie Shuttle (0pt)

Tactician (2pt)

Intelligence Agent (1pt)

Scimitar Bomber (16pt)

Tie Shuttle (0pt)

Tactician (2pt)

Intelligence Agent (1pt)

100pt total

No sure if it will cut it, but what do you see as a list capable of handlig both?

Firing round 1, blow up Rebel Captive

Firing round 2, blow up Mara Jade

Everything else is sweep up even with 2 dice turrets

Isn't Tactician limited?

Crackswarm does a good job of both, that's why its the other meta card.

Isn't Tactician limited?

Limited - not Unique - so fine on multiple ships ?

Black Crack /ln, Green Crack A-Wings, mixed /ln swarms and Dengar + another hunter seem to be the answer.

Isn't Tactician limited?

There certainly are lists from Veterans that should be able to handle palp/aces and Jumps.

This is not one such. It doesn't have anywhere near the guns it needs to get through palp/aces' defenses, and it'll get shredded by torps. I'm sure it could beat either, but I wouldn't expect it to do so reliably against players of equal skill.

Black Crack /ln, Green Crack A-Wings, mixed /ln swarms and Dengar + another hunter seem to be the answer.

X Gonna Give it to ya

Biggs Darklighter (25)
R4-D6 (1)
Integrated Astromech (0)

Wes Janson (29)
Veteran Instincts (1)
BB-8 (2)
Engine Upgrade (4)

Wedge Antilles (29)
Stay On Target (2)
Proton Torpedoes (4)
Targeting Astromech (2)
Guidance Chips (0)

Total: 99

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

This is where my thinking is at the moment. Biggs and VI Wes are the obvious combo in my mind - Biggs ensures that Wes won't get smashed early on in the approach, Wes and an init bid (small though it may be) ensures that he can move after everyone except VI Vader, helping to blunt Aces biggest weapon, and, of course, his focus stealing shenanigans mean that U Boats are disrupted. They're the core around which I'm building everything at the moment.

Wedge, at PS9 with an init bid, is the wildcard. Against Aces, I think he's very potent. His Stay on Target/Targetting Astromech combat means he can be reactive when needed even though he doesn't technically have any reposition actions. He's also shooting before Whisper cloaks (again, this assumes the init bid is good enough), and (hopefully) after Wes has stripped one (or most) of Soontir's tokens, or Omega Leader's target lock or evade. A pair of (nearly) guaranteed crits from his proton torpedo help too.

That said, the list is weak to a couple of things. First off, vs jumpmasters, it's good, but you'll have to get some lucky crits to kill one in the first round of firing. Biggs should only suffer two torps because of Wes, but even so, apart from Wedge, spike damage is limited, and with probably defensive actions much of the time, the list is vulnerable to being plinked away by the PWTs. One option here, if your meta is very jumpmaster heavy, might be to replace Wedge with a pair of homing missile/guidance chip Talas. These give you some anti-ace effectiveness (thanks to the homing missiles, though realistically you're probably better off smashing the palp shuttle with them), but primarily they give you the spike damage boost that will allow you to almost unquestionably wipe a jumpmaster off the board before it can shoot. I'm yet to really exhaustively test both variants though, so I'm not sure which is better in a more generalist setting, though I feel like Wedge's ability gives him an edge in more cases.

It's also going to suffer badly against crack swarms. Yes, you shouldn't have any trouble Alphaing Howlrunner off the board, but then it becomes a TIEs vs Biggs dice-off that is strongly weighted in favor of the swarm (thanks to crackshot, and red dice being better than green). Again, the homing missile/Tala variant might be valuable here, but they're going to find themselves very vulnerable to being blocked in a way that Wedge wont.

It's also going to have some issues vs anything with tonnes of HP and not much in the way of subtlety, like BBBBZ, double Decimators, Party bus or Ghost lists. Unlike the crackswarm, I think you can outfly any of these - it's much less weighted against you in the list building phase, but it will be trickier than either of the two it's built to kill. One advantage of most of these lists is that they tend to be more reliant on hull than shields or agility, and Wedge, firing after Wes has hopefully done some shield damage, has the potential to deliver a couple of useful crits from his torp, but of course you have the RNG factor to consider there.

[EDIT]Forgot about veterans. Potentially very, very vulnerable to triple defenders - against D type Defenders, any exclusively small base list is always going to struggle vs. Ion, but Biggs helps there, so your aces should (hopefully) survive the first joust, and the Wes/Wedge Torpedo combo should deal with at least one defender - after that it's about arc dodging I guess. As for the x7 variants, yeah, a real struggle. The Tala/homing version would obviously be a boon, but they move after a lot of the defenders that are likely to be popular, making getting those target locks a challenge - that will be a meta call in future I guess.

Glaive - X7, PTL, MK II

Ryad - X7, PTL, MK II

Gamma Squadron - Vader, Rebel Captive, Hull Upgrade, TIE Shuttle

99 Points

Game 1 - Loss - Trip Jumps

Two set up on the my left and the other on the right. I lined my guys up facing the one. Flew out to meet him and right into his trap. He turned the loner to his mates, who then all turned and fired at me. I'd not flown against them before and it didn't go well. Ended up taking one out and taking the shield off another. Need to be more careful with ranges next time. I do think it's doable though.

Game 2 - Win - Fel, Carnor and a Royal Guard

This guy is a regional champ so I knew it would be tricky. But I did have a crit machine so I just wanted in the bombers's arc. I didn't do a great job of focusing on one ship but we ended up with both defenders on one hull and a full health Royal Guard. Managed to get behind him and take him out (PTL to focus and TL). Glorious.

Two very different games. Both challenging and good learning experiences though.

I might change the Glaive for Vessery as I was getting more TLs than I thought I would. Change Rebel Captive for Jerjerrod too. Maintains my 99 points initiative bid and could save Doombomber.

I've been pondering this as a possible Rebel build. It's got some counters to both Imperial Aces and JumpMasters, but I'm not sure if it's strong enough against either. Biggs should help to ensure that both Wes and the Stresshog survive for a while, and the Bandit might be able to do some useful blocks.

Firing round 1, blow up Rebel Captive

Firing round 2, blow up Mara Jade

Everything else is sweep up even with 2 dice turrets

Wrong.

Firing round 1a Uboats : Blow up Rebel Captive, First Uboat gets stress.

Firing round 1b (4) Tac bombers: Hail 2 stress to remaining 2 Uboats. Now all Uboats have stress, and 2 needs two green manouvers to clear stress and fire another munition.

Firing round 2a Uboats : One Uboat may fire a missile IF it clears stress and gets arc. otherwise only 3 2dice turret shot.

Firing round 2b (4) Tac bombers: Hail further 4 stress.

and now Mara Jade keeps range 1 off all Uboats until it dies.

Perhaps they will win in the end, but not that easy.

Firing round 1, blow up Rebel Captive

Firing round 2, blow up Mara Jade

Everything else is sweep up even with 2 dice turrets

Wrong.

Firing round 1a Uboats : Blow up Rebel Captive, First Uboat gets stress.

Firing round 1b (4) Tac bombers: Hail 2 stress to remaining 2 Uboats. Now all Uboats have stress, and 2 needs two green manouvers to clear stress and fire another munition.

Firing round 2a Uboats : One Uboat may fire a missile IF it clears stress and gets arc. otherwise only 3 2dice turret shot.

Firing round 2b (4) Tac bombers: Hail further 4 stress.

and now Mara Jade keeps range 1 off all Uboats until it dies.

Perhaps they will win in the end, but not that easy.

Like the uboats are going to stay in range 2 arc of ships they move after when they have barrel roll.

IG-B & D, each with Mindlink, FCS, HLC, Feedback Array, Autothrusters, IG-2000.

Not hard counters, but capable of dealing with both. The nice thing about Brobots and this list specifically is its resilience to bad matchups. The only one really is Super Dash, most other things I have at least a fair fight against. Haven't tried against triple Defenders yet though, maybe that will be a problem IDK.

Triple aces and A-Holes are solid versus scouts and Palp plus two.

Defenders will really push around trip aces, the better the defender player is.

Sadly, bashing both requires some OP Bantacraр to burst out.

I don't want to see Phantom menace 2.0

I like this

Glaive X/7

Crack shot

Glaive X/7

Crack Shot

Marek Steele X/7

Crack Shot or Calculation or VI take your pick

I feel like doing 5 of these over the pilot shuttle thing.

Scimitar Squadron Pilot — TIE Bomber 16
Flechette Torpedoes 2, Seismic Charges 2, Long-Range Scanners 0 Ship Total: 20

I you want to swap out for Extra Ma and or Chips they work well.

This could be fun also Glitterstim a bunch of attacks and use Suhlak for added damage.

4X Black Sun Soldier — Z-95 Headhunter 13 , Cluster Missiles 4, Glitterstim 2, Guidance Chips 0
N'Dru Suhlak — Z-95 Headhunter 17, Cluster Missiles 4, Glitterstim 2, Guidance Chips 0, Rage 1

Tell me if I am wrong on this but Glitterstim would work on both attacks for the Cluster Missiles and Suhlak says When attacking, if there are no other friendly ships at Range 1-2, roll 1 additional attack die. So that would be 4 dice per attack with Rage to add rerolls and Glitterstim for damage with Chips. I hope that's all hits with Suhlak.

Glitterstim text - At the start of the Combat phase, you may discard this card and receive 1 stress token. If you do, until the end of the round, when attacking or defending, you may change all of your focus results to hits or evade results.

If am not wrong that's 24 atks for the black sun and 8 for suh. I believe that's a chance to destroy two jumpmasters on the opening round of fire, the return back could be bad but it would be fun. (pap aces would be a tougher deal but with blocking there is a good chance at taking 1 or 2 down)

if they drop the points on a t-65 by even 1, Five rookies would own both lists...........

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Cartel Marauder

Cartel Marauder

Cartel Marauder

I counter PalpAces AND Triple Jumpmaster with clever dials.

Theorycraft may help you avoid blank dice; but it's still dials that win you games.

yes

already made a massive post about this, but the gist of it is simple

you need more Wes Jensons (ie, ways to remove excessive offensive or defensive modifiers) that trigger independent of PS (so, "at the start of the combat phase)

tie them to mechanics that reward maneuvering (in-arc, perhaps in multiple arcs ala Eathn's ability; within range X of a friendly etc.) to actually reward you for catching aces in arc and presto

example:

"at the start of the combat phase, choose an enemy ship at Range 1-3 and within your firing arc. If at least one other friendly ship has that enemy at Range 1-3 and within its firing arc, you may remove one focus or evade token from that ship"

Well quad gamma vets with plasma deadeye em and chimps should toast jumps at their own game and could potentially dunk on aces by just giving an extra arc to have to dodge or take a hefty torpedo. It's not really new or exciting though and is essentially an escalation of what already exists (triple jumps)

Firing round 1, blow up Rebel Captive

Firing round 2, blow up Mara Jade

Everything else is sweep up even with 2 dice turrets

Wrong.

Firing round 1a Uboats : Blow up Rebel Captive, First Uboat gets stress.

Firing round 1b (4) Tac bombers: Hail 2 stress to remaining 2 Uboats. Now all Uboats have stress, and 2 needs two green manouvers to clear stress and fire another munition.

Firing round 2a Uboats : One Uboat may fire a missile IF it clears stress and gets arc. otherwise only 3 2dice turret shot.

Firing round 2b (4) Tac bombers: Hail further 4 stress.

and now Mara Jade keeps range 1 off all Uboats until it dies.

Perhaps they will win in the end, but not that easy.

Like the uboats are going to stay in range 2 arc of ships they move after when they have barrel roll.

Nope, Uboats cannot reposition, they are stressed! In fact lower pilot skill is advantageous as you can block, and guess what the intelligences agents are for?

I faced this exact list in a store championship finals. It was a tough fight and very well flown list but my Brobots won out in the end.

Cartel Marauder
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