The ship in general is crazy good for the points. You can use it as a cheap turret, a pwt, a torpedo boat, a blocker.

It has a great dial, tons of upgrade slots, can barrel roll, awesome unique pilot abilities (especially dengar), and of course that cheap base price.

You could argue that dengar/manaroo is just as annoying to face as triple uboats, or 2 uboats and a 3rd ship.

All the more reason I'd like to see a fix for the firespray, even though it's not a bad ship, it's really lagging behind most other large ships, especially in scum.

Here is a good quote to think about from Imperial Victory on Endor article, the winner of the event and how to over come.

What match-up did you fear most coming into the event?

Piotr: “I was afraid of playing against squads with huge firepower—Triple Jumpmaster 5000™ lists and Crackshot Swarms. That was another reason why I decided to choose ships with more vitality.”

Also look at this only 2 of the top eight had jump masters

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2016/4/5/scum-victory-on-hoth/

They are a good list but not an instant win.

That's the problem, they don't win but they're a giant filter. You have to be able to beat them to have a chance to win.

Exactly this. They hard-counter quite a lot of squads - and, worse yet, entire ship archetypes. There's a reason B-wings, Y-wings, and even the new G1A are no longer really in much contention, when only last wave they were vibrant in their variety, and it's because U-boats murder them too easily, while having few obvious murdered-in-turn scenarios. Presumably the 'nerf' (which was actually quoted as 'a hard counter') will be something that shuts down U-boats very effectively, meaning they have some easy wins, but also some easier losses.

My money is on the Old Master pilot they're releasing with the Fang fighter, whose pilot ability hints something to do with removing focus tokens (the lynchpin of the U-boat tactic). Unfortunately, if they think a PS7 arc dodger is going to fix things... they may have miscalculated. At least at PS8, it would've been a Scum Carnor.

Here is a good quote to think about from Imperial Victory on Endor article, the winner of the event and how to over come.

What match-up did you fear most coming into the event?

Piotr: “I was afraid of playing against squads with huge firepower—Triple Jumpmaster 5000™ lists and Crackshot Swarms. That was another reason why I decided to choose ships with more vitality.”

Also look at this only 2 of the top eight had jump masters

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2016/4/5/scum-victory-on-hoth/

They are a good list but not an instant win.

That's the problem, they don't win but they're a giant filter. You have to be able to beat them to have a chance to win.

Filter List is probably the best way to describe them. The reason JMx3 list is OP is that it filters out 95% of every list, except the ones that can beat them. Wanna play that wonky XXBB list you've been having fun with? Too bad, JMx3 wipes it in 3 turns.

Me? I wish they'd go back and change "Dark Curse's" entry in the FAQ. He used to shut down Blaster Turret because the attacker couldn't spend a focus token to fire. Then they figured that was resulting in some negative play experiences, so they ruled that he could be the target of an attack that requires the expenditure of a focus token. Can you imagine how popular he'd be now if he straight up said, "Nope, Deadeye doesn't work on me. Thanks for playing!" He might be a contender for "Wampa's" spot in some squads, although "Wampa" is more of an ace hunter, so they do different things.

However, please pay attention, Palp Aces takes lots of skill and practice to fly well, very little margins for error. I've seen Uboat tripplets get over with lots of mistakes. You have to fly aces pretty; you can fly boats ugly.

Imperial Aces are a High Risk High Reward squad. Palp gets rid of the risk.

Meanwhile Scouts are just as susceptible to bumping (no focus=no Torps) but they also have to do range and arc control at PS3 without repositioning.

Me? I wish they'd go back and change "Dark Curse's" entry in the FAQ. He used to shut down Blaster Turret because the attacker couldn't spend a focus token to fire. Then they figured that was resulting in some negative play experiences, so they ruled that he could be the target of an attack that requires the expenditure of a focus token. Can you imagine how popular he'd be now if he straight up said, "Nope, Deadeye doesn't work on me. Thanks for playing!" He might be a contender for "Wampa's" spot in some squads, although "Wampa" is more of an ace hunter, so they do different things.

FFG didn't change the ruling on Dark Curse, they changed the sequence of events that the original ruling was based on. The same thing happened with Night Beast.

EASY NERF 3 pilot Skill is NOT elite... they should NOT have an EPT.....

Here is a good quote to think about from Imperial Victory on Endor article, the winner of the event and how to over come.

What match-up did you fear most coming into the event?

Piotr: “I was afraid of playing against squads with huge firepower—Triple Jumpmaster 5000™ lists and Crackshot Swarms. That was another reason why I decided to choose ships with more vitality.”

Also look at this only 2 of the top eight had jump masters

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2016/4/5/scum-victory-on-hoth/

They are a good list but not an instant win.

That's the problem, they don't win but they're a giant filter. You have to be able to beat them to have a chance to win.

Filter List is probably the best way to describe them. The reason JMx3 list is OP is that it filters out 95% of every list, except the ones that can beat them. Wanna play that wonky XXBB list you've been having fun with? Too bad, JMx3 wipes it in 3 turns.

U-Boats wipe a lot of ships.

Palp Aces is the defensive version of U-Boats. You're going to lose just as hard, you'll just continue playing longer with the illusion that you have a chance. A B-Wing will be wiped in two torpedoes. Similarly, that B-Wings 3 hits will be shrugged off by the Palp Aces player and his ability to pull 3 evade results out of a completely blank roll.

Jouster lists have been dead since the one two punch of the Phantom followed by Fat Turretwing ruined the game. What, everyone is magically sad that jousters are dead now? You guys weren't sad about this 3 waves ago?

U-Boats are a necessity. You want to know why? Stupid ******* regen, fat turrets that negate at least 3 damage a turn automatically, and the Imperial version of regen Poe BS, except instead of taken a token amount of damage that you can just regen back, your ships are just flat invincible.

A blank blank focus result on a 1 health Soontir? That's 4 evade results. Focus, Palpatine, Autothrusters, evade token.

If you bump Soontir, and all he has to defend with is his naked 4 agility dice and Palpatine, the Palp Aces player has a 48% chance of taking no damage on a 3/3 hit attack. /That's assuming you get 3 hits/.

Your humble wave 3 Joustwing squadron? Just as ****** against Palp Aces as U-Boats.

You want to know what a filter list is? A list with the ability to pull 3 evade results out of its ass when it completely blanks.

Yes, yes, we get the memo.

With that said, BBXY would've stood a chance - if you can get enough stress on an ace, it gives the 'jousters' a chance to shoot them.

That the current jousters were already borderline in efficiency before jumpmasters showed up to nuke them out of the water is merely an unfortunate detail. Jousters aren't dead; they're just costed against one another in a world that's moved on.

How much is the G1A worth? Certainly not 23 points. But you can't admit it's not worth 23 points without explicitly obsoleting the B-wing in the process. Were it 20 points, though? You bet it'd still have a place. To make my point clearer: so would a 12 point X-wing. It's the prices that matter, not the inherent job.

If Jumpmaster had 4 hull and 5 Shield instead, that would have balanced the game a lot! Why? Then a lot of players would use flechette torpedo and munitation failsafe. That would block Jumpmaster to repeat its "deadeye, focus to target lock spam with guidence chip".

If Jumpmaster had 4 hull and 5 Shield instead, that would have balanced the game a lot! Why? Then a lot of players would use flechette torpedo and munitation failsafe. That would block Jumpmaster to repeat its "deadeye, focus to target lock spam with guidence chip".

Except that's a terrible combo that didn't see any play at all last wave, when Aces really were the main threat to counter. 1 stress on 1 enemy ship is not worth 4 points, your action, your attack, and your modification, and that's before we consider that the combo wouldn't work against certain targets.

Why do they need a nerf? They aren't dominating the meta. What was the last tourney that triple scouts won?

They are kicking the crap out of rebels, any build that's keeping a faction out competitive play needs looking at.

Once in a lifetime rebels aren't the top dog and now we need something to kick bantacrap out of the one responsible? xD

Doesn't the mighty Stresshog counter both Scouts and Palp Aces?

Doesn't the mighty Stresshog counter both Scouts and Palp Aces?

PalpAces, yes. But Scouts just tend to kill it before it can do anything.

Doesn't the mighty Stresshog counter both Scouts and Palp Aces?

Scouts shoot before Stresshogs do. Even if you pay extra points to PS-bid the Scouts, the stress token doesn't stop their shot this turn, only the next one.

And two torpedos (and a turreted primary from the third, even if it doesn't have arc) have very, very good odds of killing you in the very first round of fire.

Yes, you might shut down a single U-boat from firing next turn, but it's nowhere nearly enough to justify trading a 25-27 point ship over.

Rebels have been dominant for so long that it is great to see the other 2 factions dominating.

So no U-Boats and Palp Aces do not need a nerf.

Rebels can take the back seat for a while until a nice upgrade comes for them.

This Discussion leads to nowhere.

Maybe there will be a Nerf maybe not .

Does it really matters ?

There always will be a few top tier lists which will usually break everything else ,except their counter list(s).

Same story in so many games , table top or online , makes no difference .

I am not the most experienced player, started back in January last Year, but i slightly can see a plan behind this OP list thing .

I am used to Stress-bot list, Swarms and stuff, it was the top meta when i started and the Triple B list was nothing really shocking .

Well of course its strong , but its not a guaranteed win. People here talking like u bring them on table and your opponent instantly flees of the board ?! BULL!!!

Stop weeping about top-lists , it does not help at all.

Why do they need a nerf? They aren't dominating the meta. What was the last tourney that triple scouts won?

They are kicking the crap out of rebels, any build that's keeping a faction out competitive play needs looking at.

Once in a lifetime rebels aren't the top dog and now we need something to kick bantacrap out of the one responsible? xD

I'm an imp player so it's not a personal preference thing, it's a game balance thing.

No faction should be left out in the cold not even the terrorists.

Why do they need a nerf? They aren't dominating the meta. What was the last tourney that triple scouts won?

They are kicking the crap out of rebels, any build that's keeping a faction out competitive play needs looking at.

Once in a lifetime rebels aren't the top dog and now we need something to kick bantacrap out of the one responsible? xD

I'm an imp player so it's not a personal preference thing, it's a game balance thing.

No faction should be left out in the cold not even the terrorists.

Yeah! Nobody puts Porkins in the corner!

This thread completely turned into what I hoped it would not. Genuine apology for that folks. I suppose I should have anticipated it.

I'm not of the opinion the JM needs a nerf. Future waves will balance it out as always. I let my curiosity get the better of me after hearing the "nerf" rumor 3 times in one day simply because, barring the phantom, nerfs in this game are unheard of. Counters happen every wave, but nerfs... no. It was just something that, if true, would really stir up the community. As is obvious, lol, by how stirred up it gets with just a discussion on the matter.

Anyway... posted without considering where it could lead. Consider my original question answered and thank you!

Consider my original question answered and thank you!

But we haven't been around the mulberry bush 100 times again yet

The thing I would do is "Dead Eye" EPT should be unique pilot only.

That´s all, fixed

seriously why all these complex fixes.. change shield/hull.. change dead eye ect... as i mentioned earlier a 3 pilot skill pilot has NO BUSINESS having an EPT slot... fix that and the problem is solved.. people might actually start using Denger WITH the 12 point punishing one upgrade!!! lol I think the contracted scout is the ONLY ship in the game with a ps3 pilot AND an EPT but I didnt look that hard....

lol I think the contracted scout is the ONLY ship in the game with a ps3 pilot AND an EPT but I didnt look that hard....

Game needs seasonal handicapping for points adjustment on dominant or underused cards.

Mechanical fixes via cards come too slow and never fix the balance for long if at all.

Me? I wish they'd go back and change "Dark Curse's" entry in the FAQ. He used to shut down Blaster Turret because the attacker couldn't spend a focus token to fire. Then they figured that was resulting in some negative play experiences, so they ruled that he could be the target of an attack that requires the expenditure of a focus token. Can you imagine how popular he'd be now if he straight up said, "Nope, Deadeye doesn't work on me. Thanks for playing!" He might be a contender for "Wampa's" spot in some squads, although "Wampa" is more of an ace hunter, so they do different things.

FFG didn't change the ruling on Dark Curse, they changed the sequence of events that the original ruling was based on. The same thing happened with Night Beast.

I know they changed this but I thought it was a fine that Dark Curse couldn't be attacked my the Blaster Turret. It was a unique ability and the fluff we made up sounded cool. Blaster Turret was a complicated weapon. to use and require focus to use it; however while Dark Curse was neither Jedi or Sith the force was strong in him and because the people often found it difficult to concentrate (read focus) when attacking him make certain weapons unusable against him.