Hello, I was reading the FAQ on the back of the KH expansion rulebook and came across a question that spawned another question that I have.

Q: Why is an investigator delayed when a gate opens up in his location, but not delayed when he enters a gate normally in the Arkham Encounter Phase?

A: If the investigator were not delayed by a gate opening in his location, he would be able to pass through an Other World and only have one encounter there.

Now bare with me, looking up delayed in another question in the FAQ the instruction book clarifies the following:

Q: If a card instructs, "lose your next turn," does the player skip all of the next turn's phases, including the Upkeep Phase?

A: Yes. Not that "Lose your next turn" is different from "stay here next turn;" the latter means simply that the investigator is delayed.

Now that being said one would think that if you get delayed you still have your action phases, seeming how the Other World Encounter Phase is after the Arkham Encounter Phase, why wouldn't an investigator have 3 encounters in the Other world? Say during the Arkham encounter phase an investigator has a gate opened up on him which in turn delays him, thus you put him/her on their side. So now the Otherworld encounter phase is up next and the investigator that was delayed should then get an encounter (other world) since they are only delayed, that is if the second Question I pointed out from the FAQ holds true. That being the case...say next turn the investigator no longer is delayed, you turn him face up again during movement phase and now have yet another encounter during the Other World phase. Eventually another turn comes, you move to the second side of the Other World and now you must make a 3rd encounter. Lastly...the final turn of your Other World journey comes to an end and you move out of the gate. So....all of this being said, why wouldn't a person have a 3rd other world encounter under these circumstances? Just curious if this would be the case. Thanks for your time.

I made a mistake when quoting. The answer in regards to the distiniction between losing your next turn and delayed was missquoted.

A: "Yes. Note that "lose your next turn" is different from "stay here next turn;" the latter means simply that the investigator is delayed."

Instead of the word "Note" I used the world "Not" previously by accident which totally through the quote's significance out the window. Corrected. Thank you.

I read. I mean, I really did read. But i didn't get what was the question : why would not someone have a third encounter when he is delayed, is that the question ? That's kind of.... tormented thinking isn't it ? that's why I think I AM the one who did not quite get your question

The whole example you're imagining is right, and happens correctly. The faqs are just there to remind players of being delayed when the gate opens on you (so you get three OW encounters, not one or two) and not delayed when you go through it (so you get two OW encounters, not one nor three). And loose your next turn means.... you sit, you don't touch anything and you shut up on your next turn

...sorry, must be language issue, I did not get you... what was your question again ?

Thanks for getting back to me Hem, much appreciated. Ultimatley what I am trying to find out is if a person is delayed by a gate that leads him to an Other World if he is going to have no less then 3 encounters there (granted whatever cards he/she draws as Other World Encounters does not dictate otherwise). Say like a Gate Opens up on a player and they are sucked in it they are then considered delayed. The same turn they are delayed do they have an encounter...seeming how delayed means that you still have your Actions...you just can't move?

I was originally under the impression that under normal circumstances that a person usually has 2 encounters in the OW. But it sounds to me that if you are sucked in a gate that delays you that under normal circumstances you are then going to have 3 encounters in the OW. I am curious if this is correct? Thanks again for your time.

adeangel said:

Sure it is, man.

You go through the gate ? One encounter the same Turn, another encounter the turn after that, then you go back to Arkham the turn after that. So, 2 encounters, 3 turns.

The gate opens onto you ? One encounter the same turn (you are delayed), another encounter the turn after that (you stand up), then ANOTHER encounter after that (you advance), then you go back to Arkham after that : so, 3 encounters, 4 turns.

Ok ?

adeangel said:

This would be a rare case. Most gates (not all, but most) open during the mythos phase so there is no possibility of the other world encounter. Then, next turn you stand up, have your first and so on.

If, however, you got a gate opening on you during the Arkham Encounters, you would then be sucked into the OW, delayed, and have an OW encounter right away, then get two more.

It's rare, but it could happen.

And yes, delayed means that you skip only the movement phase. You still have encounters for the space you are forced to remain at.

RevGiark said:

That's not quite accurate. Yes, if a gate opens during the AE phase, you would be drawn into the OW and delayed. However, you would not have your encounter there right away, but wait until the OW encounter phase for the turn.

From my experience, it's not that uncommon. We've had games where we read "A gate and a monster appear" during the AH phase so many times it became comical.

Key
MP = Movement Phase
AE = Arkham Encounter Phase
OW = Other World Encounter Phase
Mythos = Mythos Phase

Normal Gate Entry
Turn A, MP: end movement on Open Gate
Turn A, AE: relocate Investigator to first area of Other World
Turn A, OW: have Other World Encounter 1
Turn B, MP: move to second area of Other World
Turn B, OW: have Other World Encounter 2
Turn C, MP: return to Arkham

Gate Entry during Arkham Encounter Phase
Turn A, MP: end movement on Arkham Location
Turn A, AE: gate appears, relocate Investigator to first area of Other World, delayed
Turn A, OW: have Other World Encounter 1
Turn B, MP: stand Investigator up
Turn B, OW: have Other World Encounter 2
Turn C, MP: move to second area of Other World
Turn C, OW: have Other World Encounter 3
Turn D, MP: return to Arkham

Gate Entry during Mythos Phase
Turn Z, Mythos: gate appears, relocate Investigator to first area of Other World, delayed
Turn A, MP: stand Investigator up
Turn A, OW: have Other World Encounter 1
Turn B, MP: move to second area of Other World
Turn B, OW: have Other World Encounter 2
Turn C, MP: return to Arkham

So you are correct that you would have 3 OW Encounters if delayed from a Gate opened underneath you during the Arkham Encounter Phase.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
The primary difference between a Delayed Turn and a Lost Turn is the level of activity allowed to be taken by the Investigator during the turn. Below, an initiated action is one the Investigator actively suggests: casting a Spell, moving a Skill Slider, using an Ability; a reactive action is one an Investigator is forced to perform: rolling for an Upkeep card, encountering a monster on their boardspace, falling through a Gate.

Delayed Turn
Upkeep Phase: as normal
Movement Phase: stand Investigator up, no action may be initiated by Investigator, all reactive actions as normal
Encounter Phase: Arkham or Other World Encounter as normal
Mythos Phase: as normal

Lost Turn
Upkeep Phase: no action may be initiated by Investigator, all reactive actions as normal
Movement Phase: stand Investigator up, no other action may be initiated by Investigator, all reactive actions as normal
Encounter Phase: no Encounter, no action may be initiated by Investigator, all reactive actions as normal
Mythos Phase: as normal, no action may be initiated by Investigator, all reactive actions as normal

For the most part (that I can recall), if you’ve LOST your turn, you are somewhere “out of the way” like Lost in Time and Space or Jail, so not having an Encounter is not a big deal.

Now, some of that may still be contested as of right now, but it has been hinted from early glances at the new FAQ that this will eventually be correct.

Very helpful indeed, thank you so much

jgt7771 said:

Current FAQ:

Q: If a card instructs, “lose your next turn,” does the player skip
all of the next turn’s phases, including the Upkeep Phase?
A: Yes. Note that “lose your next turn” is different from “stay here
next turn”; the latter means simply that the investigator is delayed.

Seems to me that skipping your next turn's phases, including the Upkeep phase includes not doing reactive actions in the Upkeep phase. such as rolling to keep your blessing. Perhaps this was changed in the new FAQ?

No no, you're right Mageith, I definitely agree with you and I think this is the way you have to play it. No upkeep, no movement, no encounters, aaaaand... yes, no Mythos. That's a whole turn. You just can go peeing, you're useless to the game

I see what you mean, but there is NO WAY I'm gonna let someone cooling their heels in jail get out of THE WORLD happening around them. Might I ask how you would react to someone with an active Azure Flame losing a turn? They just get a free turn with it on without losing a Sanity?

NUH UH. Not a chance. It's still a turn...they're still in the game...the world is still occurring. A couple of steel bars isn't going to do crap against a boss ready to yank your Retainer.

jgt7771 said:

What's interesting is that in the Arkham jail, investigators both skip a turn and are delayed but in the much harsher Innsmouth jail, they are merely delayed. If I am have a house rule, I'd adjust the incarceration experience to better fit with "reality," I'd amend the Arkham jail experience to being merely delayed. (That way the get/have to have an encounter at the Police Station too as well as the other "reactive" experiences.)

So then, other that Lost in Time and Space where do investigators lose/skip their turn? I think there are some encounters.

ARRESTED INVESTIGATORS: Some encounters may result in an investigator being
arrested and taken to the Police Station. When this
occurs, the player should place the investigator in the
Jail Cell (rather than the main Police Station area).
Arrested investigators lose half of their money (round
down) and are delayed. The player completely skips the
next turn, simply standing his investigator marker and
placing it in the main area of the Police Station during
the Movement Phase. The player may act in the following
turn as normal.

Getting Arrested in Innsmouth:
Investigators arrested on the Innsmouth board are sent to the
Innsmouth Jail instead of the Police Station in Arkham. They
lose half of their money (rounded down) and are delayed.
This occurs even if the investigator is normally immune to
being delayed, thanks to the harsh Innsmouth cops.

The Arrested paragraph is so badly written, I've ignored it since the beginning, since evidence has proven to me that it makes no sense. I don't know why they bothered with using "delayed" as a description, unless it's as a BAD signal to knock your Investigator over as a pointless reminder.

So we're arrested. We go to the Jail Cell. We skip a turn, but during that turn, we are told to stand up and move the Police Station. If we are now delayed, why the hell are we standing up? And how are we supposed to act normal in the following turn if we're delayed? Oh, wait. It should have said "as normal except for the Movement Phase", or "as normal if you are delayed". Another thing: if we're supposed to be delayed (tipped over) in order to stand up on the next turn, what's the difference if we're in the Police Station or the "Jail Cell"? To simply remind us that we lost a turn? Why waste the space on a Cell that serves no purpose? Because a big gray rectangle is "pretty"? INANE.

What is supposed to happen, and I don't care who tries to tell me otherwise, is: you get arrested. You lose half your money and put your Investigator (STANDING!) in the Jail Cell space. Lose your next turn (cuz you're on the Jail Cell space). At the beginning of the next turn, move your Investigator to the Police Station location space, and start a completely normal turn from there (almost exactly as if returning with the same procedure from Lost in Time and Space). THERE IS NO "DELAYED" HERE. Using that methodology, the Innsmouth Jail suddenly makes a lot more sense, doesn't it? Same procedure, but instead of losing that turn, you lose just that movement phase so you can have a special Jail Encounter. And you can be delayed so you get to do the same thing next turn, or you can be released to Sawbone Alley for your next completely normal turn from there.

mageith said:

And it seems I have gone the other way: YOU'RE ARRESTED. IN JAIL. No way am I giving you a chance at a nifty Police Encounter where the Sheriff gives you a gun while you're in Lock-Up.

I'm not yelling at you, mageith. If anything, I'm yelling at FFG, but really, I'm just yelling in Universal Rage. This single paragraph has been pissing me off for TWO YEARS, because it persists in causing confusion to this day. How it got past the first FAQ is beyond irritating, especially with Innsmouth directly mocking it now.

I haven't played with Innsmouth yet, but after reading the base game rules I came to the conclusion the arkham jail was meant exactly as jgt7771 said.

jgt7771 said:

My few experiences in Arkham Jail have not been so nifty. Once another greedy (she'll go unnamed) investigator had all five of her weapons confiscated. I hate to see all those opportunities for nifty and not so nifty Police station encounters wasted.

Besides I think your jail description is much meaner than real life, at least my real life. At most you spend a night in the box for the petty crimes that get you arrested in Arkham.

Whenever anyone gets arrested, I always pull out the rules and read to them the consequences and let them decide with the nonsense means.