Why is everyone talking like OLP prevents exhausted tokens from being spent on subsequent attacks? You know that is Avenger only ability right?

Putting OLP on Liberty is a waste, sure it flips the other tokens for your other ships to shoot, but so will an attack from a CR90B with OLP and the defender still wont get to use all its Def tokens before they get exhausted by OLP, because of the minimal amount of damage being caused.

I don't think anyone was. I think it was even brought up that the defender than has some big choices to make regarding spending the token or not after the OLP hits.

Why is everyone talking like OLP prevents exhausted tokens from being spent on subsequent attacks? You know that is Avenger only ability right?

Putting OLP on Liberty is a waste, sure it flips the other tokens for your other ships to shoot, but so will an attack from a CR90B with OLP and the defender still wont get to use all its Def tokens before they get exhausted by OLP, because of the minimal amount of damage being caused.

yeah I kinda mentioned that. I still think OLP and the liberty title is no real "synergy" as I would personally define it.

SW7 and the title has a ton of synergy, simply because you can synergize the token control of the title with the accuracy control of the SW7s to push through allot of damage without some esoteric reliance on outside factors or convoluted justifications. OLP and Title are just 2 neat effects you can do at the same time, no real *synergy* here.

accuracy the brace at medium range on a raider and it will likely be dead, SW7s bring the average damage of blue dice to the same average damage of black dice. With 4 blues and 3 reds on the liberty all you need is a little help from the reds and really most any ship will be feeling the hurt from that synergy (excepting maybe the bigger boys) because you can force your opponent to use their least efficient token at the same time as you maximize your damage.

Add in XI7s for the "deluxe" model and now redirects are also controlled making the double redirect no problem.

Why is everyone talking like OLP prevents exhausted tokens from being spent on subsequent attacks? You know that is Avenger only ability right?

Putting OLP on Liberty is a waste, sure it flips the other tokens for your other ships to shoot, but so will an attack from a CR90B with OLP and the defender still wont get to use all its Def tokens before they get exhausted by OLP, because of the minimal amount of damage being caused.

OLP has a useful benefit of making Intel Officers redundant. So for a one point cost you can potentially replace him with a more effective officer like Raymus.

Why is everyone talking like OLP prevents exhausted tokens from being spent on subsequent attacks? You know that is Avenger only ability right?

Putting OLP on Liberty is a waste, sure it flips the other tokens for your other ships to shoot, but so will an attack from a CR90B with OLP and the defender still wont get to use all its Def tokens before they get exhausted by OLP, because of the minimal amount of damage being caused.

yeah I kinda mentioned that. I still think OLP and the liberty title is no real "synergy" as I would personally define it.

SW7 and the title has a ton of synergy, simply because you can synergize the token control of the title with the accuracy control of the SW7s to push through allot of damage without some esoteric reliance on outside factors or convoluted justifications. OLP and Title are just 2 neat effects you can do at the same time, no real *synergy* here.

accuracy the brace at medium range on a raider and it will likely be dead, SW7s bring the average damage of blue dice to the same average damage of black dice. With 4 blues and 3 reds on the liberty all you need is a little help from the reds and really most any ship will be feeling the hurt from that synergy (excepting maybe the bigger boys) because you can force your opponent to use their least efficient token at the same time as you maximize your damage.

Add in XI7s for the "deluxe" model and now redirects are also controlled making the double redirect no problem.

The synergy for OLP is with the rest of your fleet, as Lyraeus and clontroper5 have kind of already hit on. I'm not saying its the be all end all, but Mon Karren makes OLP viable. SW7 only benefits the Liberty firing with them, but OLP helps out the whole fleet. At the end of the day this game is still about superior maneuvering and focusing fire. OLP forces hard choices now with Mon Karren.

What I like about pretty much all of Wave 3 and 4 is revisiting old cards that aren't so great now to see if they have value in the coming waves.

I should have read it more carefully... thanks.

Definetely needs multiple faces.

Why is everyone talking like OLP prevents exhausted tokens from being spent on subsequent attacks? You know that is Avenger only ability right?

Putting OLP on Liberty is a waste, sure it flips the other tokens for your other ships to shoot, but so will an attack from a CR90B with OLP and the defender still wont get to use all its Def tokens before they get exhausted by OLP, because of the minimal amount of damage being caused.

I want your ISD to spend it's now exhausted defense tokens on my subsequent attacks. They are now forever gone and even Tagge at best will only get you 2 back.

This is good. This means you have turns where you are open no way to defend and likely your shields have been stripped bare. That is the death of a ship.

Why is everyone talking like OLP prevents exhausted tokens from being spent on subsequent attacks? You know that is Avenger only ability right?

Putting OLP on Liberty is a waste, sure it flips the other tokens for your other ships to shoot, but so will an attack from a CR90B with OLP and the defender still wont get to use all its Def tokens before they get exhausted by OLP, because of the minimal amount of damage being caused.

yeah I kinda mentioned that. I still think OLP and the liberty title is no real "synergy" as I would personally define it.

SW7 and the title has a ton of synergy, simply because you can synergize the token control of the title with the accuracy control of the SW7s to push through allot of damage without some esoteric reliance on outside factors or convoluted justifications. OLP and Title are just 2 neat effects you can do at the same time, no real *synergy* here.

accuracy the brace at medium range on a raider and it will likely be dead, SW7s bring the average damage of blue dice to the same average damage of black dice. With 4 blues and 3 reds on the liberty all you need is a little help from the reds and really most any ship will be feeling the hurt from that synergy (excepting maybe the bigger boys) because you can force your opponent to use their least efficient token at the same time as you maximize your damage.

Add in XI7s for the "deluxe" model and now redirects are also controlled making the double redirect no problem.

The synergy for OLP is with the rest of your fleet, as Lyraeus and clontroper5 have kind of already hit on. I'm not saying its the be all end all, but Mon Karren makes OLP viable. SW7 only benefits the Liberty firing with them, but OLP helps out the whole fleet. At the end of the day this game is still about superior maneuvering and focusing fire. OLP forces hard choices now with Mon Karren.

What I like about pretty much all of Wave 3 and 4 is revisiting old cards that aren't so great now to see if they have value in the coming waves.

If there was only the Liberty that could utilise OLP for the rebels, then yes it would be great "synergy" but many rebel ships can take OLP for the benefit of the fleet as a whole, and it was not Wave 3 or 4 that made this so, it has been so since they added OLP, if you are so hot to make a player have hard choices on his Def Tokens after an OLP strike, you do not need Liberty for it, you could do it in wave 2.

Which is why I am failing to see how this is some sort of new trick, or some super benefit, it is still just a gimmick like it has always been.

The main strength of the Liberty is monumental fire power, coupled with unprecedented potential for maneuvering / speed, and Def token negation, it is supposed to be smashing things, not faffing around setting things up for your other ships to capitalise upon. it is supposed to be the main event, not the side dressing.

Why is everyone talking like OLP prevents exhausted tokens from being spent on subsequent attacks? You know that is Avenger only ability right?

Putting OLP on Liberty is a waste, sure it flips the other tokens for your other ships to shoot, but so will an attack from a CR90B with OLP and the defender still wont get to use all its Def tokens before they get exhausted by OLP, because of the minimal amount of damage being caused.

yeah I kinda mentioned that. I still think OLP and the liberty title is no real "synergy" as I would personally define it.

SW7 and the title has a ton of synergy, simply because you can synergize the token control of the title with the accuracy control of the SW7s to push through allot of damage without some esoteric reliance on outside factors or convoluted justifications. OLP and Title are just 2 neat effects you can do at the same time, no real *synergy* here.

accuracy the brace at medium range on a raider and it will likely be dead, SW7s bring the average damage of blue dice to the same average damage of black dice. With 4 blues and 3 reds on the liberty all you need is a little help from the reds and really most any ship will be feeling the hurt from that synergy (excepting maybe the bigger boys) because you can force your opponent to use their least efficient token at the same time as you maximize your damage.

Add in XI7s for the "deluxe" model and now redirects are also controlled making the double redirect no problem.

The synergy for OLP is with the rest of your fleet, as Lyraeus and clontroper5 have kind of already hit on. I'm not saying its the be all end all, but Mon Karren makes OLP viable. SW7 only benefits the Liberty firing with them, but OLP helps out the whole fleet. At the end of the day this game is still about superior maneuvering and focusing fire. OLP forces hard choices now with Mon Karren.

What I like about pretty much all of Wave 3 and 4 is revisiting old cards that aren't so great now to see if they have value in the coming waves.

If there was only the Liberty that could utilise OLP for the rebels, then yes it would be great "synergy" but many rebel ships can take OLP for the benefit of the fleet as a whole, and it was not Wave 3 or 4 that made this so, it has been so since they added OLP, if you are so hot to make a player have hard choices on his Def Tokens after an OLP strike, you do not need Liberty for it, you could do it in wave 2.

Which is why I am failing to see how this is some sort of new trick, or some super benefit, it is still just a gimmick like it has always been.

The main strength of the Liberty is monumental fire power, coupled with unprecedented potential for maneuvering / speed, and Def token negation, it is supposed to be smashing things, not faffing around setting things up for your other ships to capitalise upon. it is supposed to be the main event, not the side dressing.

I feel like I'm being a broken record, but no one is saying it has to be one or the other. It hits like a truck and overload pulses. Having OLP isn't stopping it from doing tons of damage. It's a sweet bonus that helps the whole fleet. And all I've said is it is kind of cool, not, "Oh snap! I just broke Armada!"

Why is everyone talking like OLP prevents exhausted tokens from being spent on subsequent attacks? You know that is Avenger only ability right?

Putting OLP on Liberty is a waste, sure it flips the other tokens for your other ships to shoot, but so will an attack from a CR90B with OLP and the defender still wont get to use all its Def tokens before they get exhausted by OLP, because of the minimal amount of damage being caused.

That is actually the point though.

I want your ISD to spend it's now exhausted defense tokens on my subsequent attacks. They are now forever gone and even Tagge at best will only get you 2 back.

This is good. This means you have turns where you are open no way to defend and likely your shields have been stripped bare. That is the death of a ship.

Ok lets break this down.

Your saying that flipping a big ships tokens with OLP is good because subsequent attacks will cause said tokens to be discarded, yes?

Any big ship that is in several ships fire arcs, ships dishing enough damage that you need to Def tokens is going to strip said ship of it's tokens, OLP or not.

Meaning its going to be in the same exact situation afterwards, no tokens to defend with and no shields remaining.

Actually, other Rebel ships taking OLP have a few issues.

First they love red range more than blue, second, the defending ship can use all of its tokens to mitigate the initial damage while making OLP not as useful, and third they don't all have enough Blue dice to garentee the 1 in 4 chance of a crit.

The Star Cruiser has 4 Blue dice so on average you should get 1 crit per attack (not always going to happen but it's average)

The CR 90 B can take both OLP and throw 4 blue dice out of its front arc. and so what if your opponent spends his def tokens on the CR90B's attack.

If you want a ship in a position where it can be mauled by the rest of the fleet, you do not need a Liberty to do it, spend 47 points on the CR90B/OLP, instead.

Why is everyone talking like OLP prevents exhausted tokens from being spent on subsequent attacks? You know that is Avenger only ability right?

Putting OLP on Liberty is a waste, sure it flips the other tokens for your other ships to shoot, but so will an attack from a CR90B with OLP and the defender still wont get to use all its Def tokens before they get exhausted by OLP, because of the minimal amount of damage being caused.

That is actually the point though.

I want your ISD to spend it's now exhausted defense tokens on my subsequent attacks. They are now forever gone and even Tagge at best will only get you 2 back.

This is good. This means you have turns where you are open no way to defend and likely your shields have been stripped bare. That is the death of a ship.

Ok lets break this down.

Your saying that flipping a big ships tokens with OLP is good because subsequent attacks will cause said tokens to be discarded, yes?

Any big ship that is in several ships fire arcs, ships dishing enough damage that you need to Def tokens is going to strip said ship of it's tokens, OLP or not.

Meaning its going to be in the same exact situation afterwards, no tokens to defend with and no shields remaining.

Sure they will but with 2 uses of each token, that means you need 3-4 attacks to even get the benefit of them having less tokens.

Experienced players, when faced with multiple shots coming at one ship, will look at that and go. . . Well I can just hold out till next turn and only use my tokens when absolutely needed. They can do that because they have multiple uses of those tokens and can afford to brush attacks off of they won't do crits or even do much damage.

Now, let's say the same ship gets OLP from Mon Karren. Average damage of a basic Star Cruiser at Medium Range is almost 5 points of damage. So you roll 5 damage including he blue crit. Now they can only use 1 token, so Brace though they could redirect and split the damage up if needed (XI7's stops this). Now you OLP. You just did 3-5 damage and for the rest of the turn that one arc is going to be HELL to defend. That single arc is likely at 1 or 0 shields, and if they don't use their redirects in the next attacks or brace they WILL get pummeled to death and likely won't survive to next turn.

WWPDSteven talked about this on IFF once where he would not want to redirect unless a crit was coming in. Reason being is because he has the defense and crits are the worst. A damage card is not so bad in conjunction.

The CR 90 B can take both OLP and throw 4 blue dice out of its front arc. and so what if your opponent spends his def tokens on the CR90B's attack.

If you want a ship in a position where it can be mauled by the rest of the fleet, you do not need a Liberty to do it, spend 47 points on the CR90B/OLP, instead.

Oh, and the Liberty can survive at Medium Range where the 90 can't.

I'm wondering if Quad Turbo laser Cannons, Quad Turbo laser Turrets and Agent Kallus are worth chaining together, preferably with Warlord.

Ok lets break it down.

Mon Karren, defender uses 1 defense token only.

Chances of a blue crit on Mon Karren? Very high.

OLP exhausts 2+ tokens for free. Including those trc abusers evades.

Standard Star Cruiser, defender uses all 3 tokens anyway.

OLP wont have use as they used their tokens regardless.

Sub optimal.

CR90, defender might use 1 defense token against this ship.

Chances of a blue crit from this ship? Very low and means ship isnt long range.

Not great, unreliable, removes the safety net of staying at range and you will need multiple OLP corvettes.

Unless you have Mon Mothma, Mon Karren is the only sensible ship in the rebel fleet which can carry OLP effectively.

If you have Nebs, AFs, MC80s or corvettes ready to take advantage at range, fantastic.

Ok lets break it down.

Mon Karren, defender uses 1 defense token only.

Chances of a blue crit on Mon Karren? Very high.

OLP exhausts 2+ tokens for free. Including those trc abusers evades.

Standard Star Cruiser, defender uses all 3 tokens anyway.

OLP wont have use as they used their tokens regardless.

Sub optimal.

CR90, defender might use 1 defense token against this ship.

Chances of a blue crit from this ship? Very low and means ship isnt long range.

Not great, unreliable, removes the safety net of staying at range and you will need multiple OLP corvettes.

Unless you have Mon Mothma, Mon Karren is the only sensible ship in the rebel fleet which can carry OLP effectively.

If you have Nebs, AFs, MC80s or corvettes ready to take advantage at range, fantastic.

Remember, Rebels don't have a Screed. We may get an officer with screeds ability someday, but until then we need consistency

The only downside to this logic is that in most cases if MonKarren is shooting at someone at medium range they will probably be dead anyway (excluding ISD or MC80). If its not dead, sure you have exhausted all its tokens now, but its probably at the stage that it will burn any remaining tokens to try to survive in any subsequent volleys.

I'm wondering if Quad Turbo laser Cannons, Quad Turbo laser Turrets and Agent Kallus are worth chaining together, preferably with Warlord.

You would still only get a single red die for anti-squadron armament via Kallus, in addition to any blue/blacks you might have. I think 1/8s chance to roll an ACC with it to trigger the QTLCs is a bit slim. Kallus works well with the Warlord/H9 combo though.

The only downside to this logic is that in most cases if MonKarren is shooting at someone at medium range they will probably be dead anyway (excluding ISD or MC80). If its not dead, sure you have exhausted all its tokens now, but its probably at the stage that it will burn any remaining tokens to try to survive in any subsequent volleys.

5 damage is the average. That is not enough to kill a CR90 even with 1 crit. That is on both versions of the Liberty. Adding in Spinal Turrets turns that into 6. 6 is enough to kill if they dont have a redirect.

So in reality, most everything will survive the attack.

The only downside to this logic is that in most cases if MonKarren is shooting at someone at medium range they will probably be dead anyway (excluding ISD or MC80). If its not dead, sure you have exhausted all its tokens now, but its probably at the stage that it will burn any remaining tokens to try to survive in any subsequent volleys.

5 damage is the average. That is not enough to kill a CR90 even with 1 crit. That is on both versions of the Liberty. Adding in Spinal Turrets turns that into 6. 6 is enough to kill if they dont have a redirect.

So in reality, most everything will survive the attack.

Funny my VSD2 seems to reliably kill CR90s if it can get them at medium.

And do we really think said CR90 (or whatever) is going to care about burning its tokens if it means it will survive the follow on attacks?

This is a "big fish" hunting strategy, and yes its a pretty good one, but intel officer, xi7s, HTTs or a few other combos are just as valid.

The only downside to this logic is that in most cases if MonKarren is shooting at someone at medium range they will probably be dead anyway (excluding ISD or MC80). If its not dead, sure you have exhausted all its tokens now, but its probably at the stage that it will burn any remaining tokens to try to survive in any subsequent volleys.

5 damage is the average. That is not enough to kill a CR90 even with 1 crit. That is on both versions of the Liberty. Adding in Spinal Turrets turns that into 6. 6 is enough to kill if they dont have a redirect.

So in reality, most everything will survive the attack.

Funny my VSD2 seems to reliably kill CR90s if it can get them at medium.

And do we really think said CR90 (or whatever) is going to care about burning its tokens if it means it will survive the follow on attacks?

This is a "big fish" hunting strategy, and yes its a pretty good one, but intel officer, xi7s, HTTs or a few other combos are just as valid.

It usually happens to me but at the same time I have seen CR90's pass by hanging on by a thread because my crit was not a Structural Damage. They do die but not always.

It is not about caring if it survived. It is about making them weaker if they do survive. If they cant survive the next turn you are already forcing them to activate in a way that might not be beneficial to their strategy, or they give up an activation.

When I play DtO, if I lose an activation without taking one of theirs, it hurts IMMENSELY!

As for your thoughts on the CR90, if that is your target priority, than that is your decision. You can use a CR90 as an example but the better ones are Gladiators, Assauly Frigates, etc. Those are the targets that Mon Karren wants.

Apologies if this has already been covered. Does Modaines ability stack? If I spend a dial and token (hello Raymus) can I for instance, using the dial, add one yaw, then another yaw for the token, then add 2 more yaws for the first and second abilities from Madine? Giving a total of 4 clicks, not 3 as stated in the article.

The second part of Madines ability, merely states what spending a token does anyway? I suppose you get to change the speed and yaw using the token, but you can't increase by 2, because the word 'additional' is missing.

Ok lets break it down.

Mon Karren, defender uses 1 defense token only.

Chances of a blue crit on Mon Karren? Very high.

OLP exhausts 2+ tokens for free. Including those trc abusers evades.

Standard Star Cruiser, defender uses all 3 tokens anyway.

OLP wont have use as they used their tokens regardless.

Sub optimal.

CR90, defender might use 1 defense token against this ship.

Chances of a blue crit from this ship? Very low and means ship isnt long range.

Not great, unreliable, removes the safety net of staying at range and you will need multiple OLP corvettes.

Unless you have Mon Mothma, Mon Karren is the only sensible ship in the rebel fleet which can carry OLP effectively.

If you have Nebs, AFs, MC80s or corvettes ready to take advantage at range, fantastic.

So the Mon Karren, with 4/5 potential blue dice is awesome for getting OLP to work, but the CR90B with 4 blue dice is terrible, with a very low chance of triggering the crit? I don't even. Somehow the Blue dice on the Liberty are working at a different range band to the CR90B ? wtf does ship is not long range mean, BOTH have to be exactly the same distance away from an enemy to trigger OLP, and one is a **** sight more maneuverable than the other.

Unless you have Mon Mothma, Mon Karren is the only sensible ship in the rebel fleet which can carry OLP effectively....utter hyperbole! Heard of this thing called being player one? on a ship that can with Madine get 2/2/2/2 clicks, then an ET maneuver for another 2 clicks, if you some how cannot get the CR90B into position then, god help you. Or the MC80 Command cruiser, it gets 4/5 blue dice, has better shields so it can sit about and take a pummeling.

OLP is way way down the list for what you should be filling the Libertys Ion slot with.