Gaining an extra accuracy dice on a ship that can take SW-7s is a poor?

Guaranteeing the ability to have every single Imperial ship outside of an ISD II never ever gets to use it's brace token is something you don't think you will see?

I have to say I am somewhat baffled by your statement.

I see your point (A Red Accuracy is a Red You can Spend!)

But, Because SW-7 Specifices Blue Accuracy Dice that are unspent count as damage...

So the Additional Red accuracy does nothing for That. You already had a Red Accuracy in the first place to lock down that Brace...

So really, yeah. its a Superfelous Red Accuracy that way...

and there we go, didn't even have time to post it

Mon Karren - not very usefull if you roll even 1 accuracy

Not very useful if you roll even 1 accuracy?

It is possibly the most devastating ship title after Demolisher. You can only use one Def token, 1 accuracy means it is not going to be your brace, and X-17's mean you are only redirecting 1 point of damage, and you think it is not very useful?

now this I agree with

Mon Karren is a very simple and solid title; definitely the one I'd reach for first

that's what you could run with SW-7s

That can happen but its not worth 8 points and it gives enemy a choice which token to use, you are better off with intel officer imho if you want token denial.

Yes and No. Intel officer has limitations, after all... (And so does Mon Karen, as we've explored)

Intel Officer may or may not be subject to MS-1 Exhasting.

Intel Officer can only be used on one attack per Turn, Mon Karen is on all attacks.

Against non-isd targets, and instead, say, a Raider or Corvette as a Target, then restricting them to 1 can be quite deadly - again, in the ideal situation of being able to Gunnery Team both in your Front Arc...

Situationally, Both are Useful.

Mon Karren - not very usefull if you roll even 1 accuracy

Not very useful if you roll even 1 accuracy?

It is possibly the most devastating ship title after Demolisher. You can only use one Def token, 1 accuracy means it is not going to be your brace, and X-17's mean you are only redirecting 1 point of damage, and you think it is not very useful?

If you accuracy brace anx XI7 take care of redirect how many defense tokens are left? 1 and Mon Karen does nothing. If you have even 1 accuracy and target brace, he can still use redirect and again karen does nothing.

Except he won't be Containing any Critical hit that gets through the Shields

he will be becouse he can use only 1 token and others are blocked. Whats so hard to understand. You accuracy brace, XI7 accuracy and he can only use contain anyway meaning Mon Karen does effectively nothing.

I was responding to this part:

"If you have even 1 accuracy and target brace, he can still use redirect and again karen does nothing."

If he's using Redirect, he's not using Contain, and Mon Karen has done something.

There is also the fact that, you can get one Acc, Target Brace, he USES ECMS, and Mon Karen stops him from using Redirect or Contain...

Granted, still got use out of Brace - but you're still stopping the other tokens being used.

That can happen but its not worth 8 points and it gives enemy a choice which token to use, you are better off with intel officer imho if you want token denial.

Only one out of 12 Imperial ships get ECM, so no Intel Officer is not better for token denial when facing Imperials, it means Flotillas don't get to use scatter, it means VSD's do not get to brace, and only redirect one point of damage, it means Gladiators do not get to brace, and only redirect 1 point of damage, it means Raiders get to do nothing at all, except eat all the damage, it means the ISD I can contain or redirect a single point of damage.

So yes I am some what baffled by the statement that Mon Karen is not very useful with 1 accuracy.

Ohhh I did not think about being able to reroll that red die. . . There are options there.

Do you understand what Mon Karen does? You cant spend more than 1 token. If i have 1 accuracy and target scatter flotilla can still use evade (Mon Karen does nothing as he isallwoed to use 1 token and he can use 1 anyway).

If i atack ISD with XI7 and roll 1 accuracy it has only contain left and Mon Karen does nothing becouse he is allowed to use 1 token. (only problem would be cm but thats why i would prefer Intel over Mon Karen in this situation)

If i have no XI7 and i roll accuracy to block his brace he can use 1 redirect anyway (you cant use more than 2 on the same atack anyway), only thing you effecitvely block with MonK is contain.

Do you understand what Mon Karen does?

Gives me the Willies...

Due mostly to the amount of times I've said "Okay, Evade... Then brace and Redirect..." with my Assault Frigates....

Ohhh I did not think about being able to reroll that red die. . . There are options there.

10 points, though

if you're looking to just add a die, might as well cut out the middle man and hit up either EA or Spinals

That can happen but its not worth 8 points and it gives enemy a choice which token to use, you are better off with intel officer imho if you want token denial.

Yes and No. Intel officer has limitations, after all... (And so does Mon Karen, as we've explored)

Intel Officer may or may not be subject to MS-1 Exhasting.

Intel Officer can only be used on one attack per Turn, Mon Karen is on all attacks.

Against non-isd targets, and instead, say, a Raider or Corvette as a Target, then restricting them to 1 can be quite deadly - again, in the ideal situation of being able to Gunnery Team both in your Front Arc...

Situationally, Both are Useful.

Raider, Corvette, MC30, Nebulon-B, other Liberty's, Gladiators, Assault Frigates, Interdictors. . . The only ones it does not work that great on are ISD's and MC80's and even then, you are controlling how much damage is being pushed through.

Ohhh I did not think about being able to reroll that red die. . . There are options there.

10 points, though

if you're looking to just add a die, might as well cut out the middle man and hit up either EA or Spinals

I must say I am pretty salty no Imperial ship gets 2 TL slots, in fact the more I look at that Liberty the more I am feeling it might be time to defect and play some Rebels for a change.

Do you understand what Mon Karen does?

Gives me the Willies...

Due mostly to the amount of times I've said "Okay, Evade... Then brace and Redirect..." with my Assault Frigates....

If i accuracy your brace or evade and XI7 neuters redirect how is Mon Karen gonna help me? You have 1 token left and you are allowed to use 1 token. It will do literally nothing. Can you comprehand basic logic? I agree that vs AFmk2 with ecm MonKaren is usefull if i am shooting at long-medium range. At close range you have only brace left and you can still use it even despite Karen.

Also guaranteeing 2 red accuracy results is pretty sweet if you're playing against Rebels, you have 2 braces you say? not anymore!

Do you understand what Mon Karen does?

Gives me the Willies...

Due mostly to the amount of times I've said "Okay, Evade... Then brace and Redirect..." with my Assault Frigates....

If i accuracy your brace or evade and XI7 neuters redirect how is Mon Karen gonna help me? You have 1 token left and you are allowed to use 1 token. It will do literally nothing. Can you comprehand basic logic? I agree that vs AFmk2 with ecm MonKaren is usefull if i am shooting at long-medium range.

I comprehend basic logic quite well.

There are enough factors involved that, trying to break it down into "completely useless" and "awesome" is always fraught with misgivings and, apparently, veiled insults.

Which is why my point is always a moderate one. "There are circumstances it is quite useful. There are circumstances when its absolutely rubbish. Unfortunately we are unable to plan a battle with absolute certainty to always know its going to be useful."

Do you understand what Mon Karen does? You cant spend more than 1 token. If i have 1 accuracy and target scatter flotilla can still use evade (Mon Karen does nothing as he isallwoed to use 1 token and he can use 1 anyway).

If i atack ISD with XI7 and roll 1 accuracy it has only contain left and Mon Karen does nothing becouse he is allowed to use 1 token. (only problem would be cm but thats why i would prefer Intel over Mon Karen in this situation)

If i have no XI7 and i roll accuracy to block his brace he can use 1 redirect anyway (you cant use more than 2 on the same atack anyway), only thing you effecitvely block with MonK is contain.

Not only does the attack have to break through the initial arc they are attacking and you have a redirect for 1 point. Better than not being able to absorb that damage.

I must say I am pretty salty no Imperial ship gets 2 TL slots, in fact the more I look at that Liberty the more I am feeling it might be time to defect and play some Rebels for a change.

Do you understand what Mon Karen does?

Gives me the Willies...

Due mostly to the amount of times I've said "Okay, Evade... Then brace and Redirect..." with my Assault Frigates....

If i accuracy your brace or evade and XI7 neuters redirect how is Mon Karen gonna help me? You have 1 token left and you are allowed to use 1 token. It will do literally nothing. Can you comprehand basic logic? I agree that vs AFmk2 with ecm MonKaren is usefull if i am shooting at long-medium range.

I comprehend basic logic quite well.

There are enough factors involved that, trying to break it down into "completely useless" and "awesome" is always fraught with misgivings and, apparently, veiled insults.

Which is why my point is always a moderate one. "There are circumstances it is quite useful. There are circumstances when its absolutely rubbish. Unfortunately we are unable to plan a battle with absolute certainty to always know its going to be useful."

I agree with that, my point was its getting less usefull if you roll accuracy (not to mention XI7), even with 1 accuracy when atacking vsd for example you target brace and Mon Kar does effectively nothing against redirect. I didnt not say Mon Kar sucks but that it gets less usefull if you already have other forms of token denial.

Do you understand what Mon Karen does?

Gives me the Willies...

Due mostly to the amount of times I've said "Okay, Evade... Then brace and Redirect..." with my Assault Frigates....

If i accuracy your brace or evade and XI7 neuters redirect how is Mon Karen gonna help me? You have 1 token left and you are allowed to use 1 token. It will do literally nothing. Can you comprehand basic logic? I agree that vs AFmk2 with ecm MonKaren is usefull if i am shooting at long-medium range.

I comprehend basic logic quite well.

There are enough factors involved that, trying to break it down into "completely useless" and "awesome" is always fraught with misgivings and, apparently, veiled insults.

Which is why my point is always a moderate one. "There are circumstances it is quite useful. There are circumstances when its absolutely rubbish. Unfortunately we are unable to plan a battle with absolute certainty to always know its going to be useful."

What I'd no accuracy was rolled? On a red die it is a 1 in 8 chance and on a blue die it is a 1 in 4 chance. There is never any garentee that you will lock anything down.

ISD I/II

MC80 I/II

Interdictor I/II

Mon Karren with Accuracy means either Redirect or Contain, or Brace and nothing else if you have ECM, against nearly everything else that front arc is death with 2 accuracy results and the ability to double ram.

I must say I am pretty salty no Imperial ship gets 2 TL slots, in fact the more I look at that Liberty the more I am feeling it might be time to defect and play some Rebels for a change.

No rebel ship has 2 Offensive Retrofit slots! Makes my squadrons jealous

Well we can have a switcheroo then, you can play Imperials and get that ISD I on the go with Wulff, Expanded Hanger Bay, Boosted Comms, and I can start rick rolling my friends with Madine and that sweet sweet Liberty.

I must say I am pretty salty no Imperial ship gets 2 TL slots, in fact the more I look at that Liberty the more I am feeling it might be time to defect and play some Rebels for a change.

No rebel ship has 2 Offensive Retrofit slots! Makes my squadrons jealous

No imperial ship has 2 defensive slots

Do you understand what Mon Karen does?

Gives me the Willies...

Due mostly to the amount of times I've said "Okay, Evade... Then brace and Redirect..." with my Assault Frigates....

If i accuracy your brace or evade and XI7 neuters redirect how is Mon Karen gonna help me? You have 1 token left and you are allowed to use 1 token. It will do literally nothing. Can you comprehand basic logic? I agree that vs AFmk2 with ecm MonKaren is usefull if i am shooting at long-medium range.

I comprehend basic logic quite well.

There are enough factors involved that, trying to break it down into "completely useless" and "awesome" is always fraught with misgivings and, apparently, veiled insults.

Which is why my point is always a moderate one. "There are circumstances it is quite useful. There are circumstances when its absolutely rubbish. Unfortunately we are unable to plan a battle with absolute certainty to always know its going to be useful."

I agree with that, my point was its getting less usefull if you roll accuracy (not to mention XI7), even with 1 accuracy when atacking vsd for example you target brace and Mon Kar does effectively nothing against redirect. I didnt not say Mon Kar sucks but that it gets less usefull if you already have other forms of token denial.

CR90's will be spending their evades for TRC's, nebs are like the VSD but not really, depending on the damage being dealt the Raider may want to use an evade or a brace.

Yes it seems limiting but in reality it is not.

Mon Karen. Shoot a hull zone with low shields.

Doesnt matter which token they use, theyre screwed.

And as a Neb flyer, I can tell you its pissing annoying for the defender to use evade AND brace/redirect. Makes a massive difference.

I must say I am pretty salty no Imperial ship gets 2 TL slots, in fact the more I look at that Liberty the more I am feeling it might be time to defect and play some Rebels for a change.

No rebel ship has 2 Offensive Retrofit slots! Makes my squadrons jealous

No imperial ship has 2 defensive slots

I am not arguing that its worthless in every situation which some of you assume it seems. You usually want hard token denial in form of accuracies and things like XI7, if you have that you get much less use out of Mon Karen.

I see how SW7 and Mon Karen can push 6,25 dmg on avarge with only 1 token beeing usefull to the enemy. The thing is enemy has the choice which token to use, if he braces its only around 3 dmg or with evade on double hit 4.

With Spinals and XI7 it does 6 dmg with 1 acc or 5 dmg with 2 acc:

(considering no ecm): with 1 acc i do 5 dmg to target zone 1 to adjacent zone, if enemy evades it can drop to 3 and 1.

(consdiering ecm): enemy uses brace to 3 dmg or evade to 4 dmg.

MonK SW7 is better vs ships with ecm but that depends how common is ecm

BOTH ARE GOOD I WAS JUST POINTING HOW THEY ARE DIFREANT CHOCIES THAT OVERALL MIGHT BE BETTER

Mon Karen. Shoot a hull zone with low shields.

Doesnt matter which token they use, theyre screwed.

And as a Neb flyer, I can tell you its pissing annoying for the defender to use evade AND brace/redirect. Makes a massive difference.

Do you understand what Mon Karen does? You cant spend more than 1 token. If i have 1 accuracy and target scatter flotilla can still use evade (Mon Karen does nothing as he isallwoed to use 1 token and he can use 1 anyway).

If i atack ISD with XI7 and roll 1 accuracy it has only contain left and Mon Karen does nothing becouse he is allowed to use 1 token. (only problem would be cm but thats why i would prefer Intel over Mon Karen in this situation)

If i have no XI7 and i roll accuracy to block his brace he can use 1 redirect anyway (you cant use more than 2 on the same atack anyway), only thing you effecitvely block with MonK is contain.

See now you are being silly. First off you are thinking that XI7 Turbolasers makes the Redirect worthless. I play MC30's often enough to know that sometimes that 1 point is that still enough.

Not only does the attack have to break through the initial arc they are attacking and you have a redirect for 1 point. Better than not being able to absorb that damage.

Sometimes it is but this is not logicly connected to the issue of Mon Karen. Mon Karen still allows you to use that redirect if you need you know?