My initial thoughts -

- This thing is close enough to ISD resilience and firepower (dice and upgrades being equal) that the one on one winner will be the first to fire first at medium range

- Its sides are even weaker than imperial ships, but luckily the rebels have an ideal flank guard in the AF2.

- Even with the new attack team upgrades its still hard to get past gunnery teams, however....

- Taking the star cruiser with SW7s and Veteran gunners (maybe add Xi7s too) seems a good cheap combo that will give you guaranteed 4 damage + the best of two red dice rolls. Or swap the Xi7s for Mon Karren.

- It definitely needs a Neb B E in close attendance to assist with fighter management.

My concern is Madine, Engine Techs, and Raymus, gives the Liberty effectively, 1 clicks, 0 clicks, 1 clicks, ( 3 extra clicks spent here) then a 1 click ET maneuver, add in the Mon Karren title, X-17's, QTC's, and leading shots.

And you have a Large base ship, that is as maneuverable and as fast as most small base ships, but with the damage dealing capacity of an ISD, but with the added bonus of totally negating virtually every Imperial ships Defense Tokens.

Looks like the Rebels just got their "Demolisher", good luck dealing with a Liberty in a high activation fleet that is designed around being player one.

My concern is Madine, Engine Techs, and Raymus, gives the Liberty effectively, 2 clicks, 2 clicks, 2 clicks, 1 click, add in the Mon Karren title, X-17's, QTC's, and leading shots.

And you have a Large base ship, that is as maneuverable and as fast as most small base ships, but with the damage dealing capacity of an ISD, but with the added bonus of totally negating virtually every Imperial ships Defense Tokens.

Looks like the Rebels just got their "Demolisher", good luck dealing with a Liberty in a high activation fleet that is designed around being player one.

Large base, obstacle avoiding, manouverability.

You cant have all three of those at once.

If only there was a ship which could move the obstacles to perfect positions.....

Often win deployment, win the game. (There are fleets which are exceptions to this rule)

ISD is disappoint. Needs more pew pew.

Seriously though, for 120 points nowadays? I really want more pew pew. Hopefully some upgrade goes well with them and the VSDs.

you don't really have to spam upgrades on it unless there's some silly turbo laser combo

leading shots for re-rolls, gunnery team for dat arc and Mon Karren at most, imo (+19) which is still below or 2 points over a naked ISD-2

really aren't any double turbo-lasers I'd run on it

For 123pts, you get a Gun Team, Leading Shot, Spinal TL, and Intel Officer equipped Star Cruiser.

That's pretty **** comparable to a naked ISD II.

My concern is Madine, Engine Techs, and Raymus, gives the Liberty effectively, 2 clicks, 2 clicks, 2 clicks, 1 click, add in the Mon Karren title, X-17's, QTC's, and leading shots.

And you have a Large base ship, that is as maneuverable and as fast as most small base ships, but with the damage dealing capacity of an ISD, but with the added bonus of totally negating virtually every Imperial ships Defense Tokens.

Looks like the Rebels just got their "Demolisher", good luck dealing with a Liberty in a high activation fleet that is designed around being player one.

Large base, obstacle avoiding, manouverability.

You cant have all three of those at once.

If only there was a ship which could move the obstacles to perfect positions.....

Often win deployment, win the game. (There are fleets which are exceptions to this rule)

Bringing another 93+ points ship to help your ISD getting an edge over the star cruiser is not really a solid argument. Toe-to-toe the star cruiser is quite en par with an ISD for a lot less points. Everything on that ship is maxed out for front arc engagements and we will have to see how that plays out in the greater scheme to talk about balance.

The ISD still holds its place as the most versatile dreadnought in the game, and that has to be taken into account as well. This "1-on-1" comparison says little about the overall worth of a ship on the battlefield.

ISD II also has defensive retrofit, which is pretty great. I don't think it is overshadowed.

17 points more for the ISD-2.

ISD benefits:

• Much better carrier
• Much more durable (Defensive retrofit, 1 more shield, 3 more hull)
• Better anti-squad dice (I much prefer 2xblue over 2xblack)
• Slightly better upgrade slots
• Slightly better firepower in every arc

Liberty Benefits:

• 17 points cheaper
• Potential for speed 4
• Better defense tokens
• The best Title of the 2 ships (Mon Karren)

Pretty close. 17 points close? Unsure, maybe?

Begun the power creep has

Fire control teams on a gladiator with screed will be horrendously powerful.

Fire control teams with screed and XX-9 on ANYTHING will be horrendously broken.

Yeah, you might not want to face-trade with a liberty, but that's OK in my book. All it means is that maneuvering just got that much more crucial to this game (which, incidentally, adds value to our friend the interdictor). Perhaps it's important to note that it is easier to push crits into the liberty due to how quick you can get through the rather shoddy 2 shield/1 redirect. The ISD and lib might be close on shields but think about how hard it is to get to the hull from side arc: It has no ECM, so say an ISDII manages a front to side arc, all you need is one accuracy and 5 damage on a naked ISD, not hard to do. I haven't really worked it out completely but I think it's roughly the same for an upgraded, titled liberty too get through the ISD side arc.

Honestly seems balanced to me unless you go face to face. So it's kinda like: don't go face to face?

Think about TRC spam too. Bound to face some of that, and a good commander with nav commands is **** near guaranteed to get a few TRC double arcs on the side, this ship is not keen to take small damage from many sources, those braces effective utility takes a nose dive pretty **** quick and after 2 shots you might be in a position where a dinky 50pt corvette is pushing significant damage into your hull.

Yeah, despite its generous base cost, it's not like the liberty is a defensive powerhouse

It'll hold for as long as those two braces +/- blissex will allow, but it can drop pretty fast with only 1 redirect and 2 shields on every hull zone sans the front

Plus, while the nav chart isn't the worst, it's also not very good for a front arc reliant ship

Despite the apparent simplicity in design, there are factors present that make me doubt that the liberty will just be able to plow through the competition with ease

Fast ships and squadrons, including our friend Demolisher, could well give it fits unless you fly very well

Hang on, spreadsheet nearly done!

Bed thought! Don't know if mentioned but the new Turb Laser can cheat an extra red dice in via re roll and not being a modification.

You have 4Red base, 1 Turbo, 1 Spinal. Add a CF fire die, you hit the accuracy, Add another Red set to accuracy , reroll 8 Red with VG. Biggest red battery in the game I think.

That's an awful lot of points

The quad turbo (add red acc if you roll a red acc) is SUPER expensive for something you gotta either luck or build into

Don't think you'll ever see it, honestly. Even with Home One farting around, you'd probably get the same or better mileage out of xi7

Even poor warlord can't touch it due to rather ludicrous pricing (sensor teams + warlord + turbo laser = 23 points!

All for a two hit face and an acc)

Mon Karren - not very usefull if you roll even 1 accuracy

XI7 and HTT - both on the same ship? whats the point if htt works only if you use more than 1 token and with redirects neutered you will just use brace anyway

Spinal and XI7 - good and simple, with 8 dice you should get an accuracy reliably often making it possible to deal with brace and redirects

Leading shots - its alwayes good to have insurence

SW7 - you usally want at least 1-2 accuraciers and chance of rolling more than 2 isnt very high

Gunnery team - alwayes a good idea with that arc

Engine techs - if you have madine you will spam nav commands anyway so you can make use of it, speed 4 with that yaw can really outmanouver enemy

Gaining an extra accuracy dice on a ship that can take SW-7s is a poor?

Guaranteeing the ability to have every single Imperial ship outside of an ISD II never ever gets to use it's brace token is something you don't think you will see?

I have to say I am somewhat baffled by your statement.

Mon Karren - not very usefull if you roll even 1 accuracy

Not very useful if you roll even 1 accuracy?

It is possibly the most devastating ship title after Demolisher. You can only use one Def token, 1 accuracy means it is not going to be your brace, and X-17's mean you are only redirecting 1 point of damage, and you think it is not very useful?

Gaining an extra accuracy dice on a ship that can take SW-7s is a poor?

Guaranteeing the ability to have every single Imperial ship outside of an ISD II never ever gets to use it's brace token is something you don't think you will see?

I have to say I am somewhat baffled by your statement.

I see your point (A Red Accuracy is a Red You can Spend!)

But, Because SW-7 Specifices Blue Accuracy Dice that are unspent count as damage...

So the Additional Red accuracy does nothing for That. You already had a Red Accuracy in the first place to lock down that Brace...

So really, yeah. its a Superfelous Red Accuracy that way...

Mon Karren - not very usefull if you roll even 1 accuracy

Not very useful if you roll even 1 accuracy?

It is possibly the most devastating ship title after Demolisher. You can only use one Def token, 1 accuracy means it is not going to be your brace, and X-17's mean you are only redirecting 1 point of damage, and you think it is not very useful?

If you accuracy brace anx XI7 take care of redirect how many defense tokens are left? 1 and Mon Karen does nothing. If you have even 1 accuracy and target brace, he can still use redirect and again karen does nothing.

Mon Karren - not very usefull if you roll even 1 accuracy

Not very useful if you roll even 1 accuracy?

It is possibly the most devastating ship title after Demolisher. You can only use one Def token, 1 accuracy means it is not going to be your brace, and X-17's mean you are only redirecting 1 point of damage, and you think it is not very useful?

If you accuracy brace anx XI7 take care of redirect how many defense tokens are left? 1 and Mon Karen does nothing. If you have even 1 accuracy and target brace, he can still use redirect and again karen does nothing.

Except he won't be Containing any Critical hit that gets through the Shields

Mon Karren - not very usefull if you roll even 1 accuracy

Not very useful if you roll even 1 accuracy?

It is possibly the most devastating ship title after Demolisher. You can only use one Def token, 1 accuracy means it is not going to be your brace, and X-17's mean you are only redirecting 1 point of damage, and you think it is not very useful?

If you accuracy brace anx XI7 take care of redirect how many defense tokens are left? 1 and Mon Karen does nothing. If you have even 1 accuracy and target brace, he can still use redirect and again karen does nothing.

Except he won't be Containing any Critical hit that gets through the Shields

he will be becouse he can use only 1 token and others are blocked. Whats so hard to understand. You accuracy brace, XI7 accuracy and he can only use contain anyway meaning Mon Karen does effectively nothing. You pay 8 points for this and it becomes less usefull with every other accuracy or token denial you have.

Mon Karren - not very usefull if you roll even 1 accuracy

Not very useful if you roll even 1 accuracy?

It is possibly the most devastating ship title after Demolisher. You can only use one Def token, 1 accuracy means it is not going to be your brace, and X-17's mean you are only redirecting 1 point of damage, and you think it is not very useful?

If you accuracy brace anx XI7 take care of redirect how many defense tokens are left? 1 and Mon Karen does nothing. If you have even 1 accuracy and target brace, he can still use redirect and again karen does nothing.

Except he won't be Containing any Critical hit that gets through the Shields

he will be becouse he can use only 1 token and others are blocked. Whats so hard to understand. You accuracy brace, XI7 accuracy and he can only use contain anyway meaning Mon Karen does effectively nothing.

I was responding to this part:

"If you have even 1 accuracy and target brace, he can still use redirect and again karen does nothing."

If he's using Redirect, he's not using Contain, and Mon Karen has done something.

There is also the fact that, you can get one Acc, Target Brace, he USES ECMS, and Mon Karen stops him from using Redirect or Contain...

Granted, still got use out of Brace - but you're still stopping the other tokens being used.

Mon Karren - not very usefull if you roll even 1 accuracy

Not very useful if you roll even 1 accuracy?

It is possibly the most devastating ship title after Demolisher. You can only use one Def token, 1 accuracy means it is not going to be your brace, and X-17's mean you are only redirecting 1 point of damage, and you think it is not very useful?

If you accuracy brace anx XI7 take care of redirect how many defense tokens are left? 1 and Mon Karen does nothing. If you have even 1 accuracy and target brace, he can still use redirect and again karen does nothing.

Except he won't be Containing any Critical hit that gets through the Shields

he will be becouse he can use only 1 token and others are blocked. Whats so hard to understand. You accuracy brace, XI7 accuracy and he can only use contain anyway meaning Mon Karen does effectively nothing.

I was responding to this part:

"If you have even 1 accuracy and target brace, he can still use redirect and again karen does nothing."

If he's using Redirect, he's not using Contain, and Mon Karen has done something.

There is also the fact that, you can get one Acc, Target Brace, he USES ECMS, and Mon Karen stops him from using Redirect or Contain...

Granted, still got use out of Brace - but you're still stopping the other tokens being used.

That can happen but its not worth 8 points and it gives enemy a choice which token to use, you are better off with intel officer imho if you want token denial.

Gaining an extra accuracy dice on a ship that can take SW-7s is a poor?

Guaranteeing the ability to have every single Imperial ship outside of an ISD II never ever gets to use it's brace token is something you don't think you will see?

I have to say I am somewhat baffled by your statement.

I see your point (A Red Accuracy is a Red You can Spend!)

But, Because SW-7 Specifices Blue Accuracy Dice that are unspent count as damage...

So the Additional Red accuracy does nothing for That. You already had a Red Accuracy in the first place to lock down that Brace...

So really, yeah. its a Superfelous Red Accuracy that way...

I meant you don't have to waste blue accuracy results, they can cause damage instead.