What else do we have. . . Ohhh your Fire Lanes with G7 and Grav Shift! (can be used for Contested Outpost as well) You can use Grav Shift to adjust the Outpost towards you (same with Dangerous Territories), and then use GM's to start your self off at 0.

What we're the issues of this ships flexibility again?

I think that when playing your own fire lanes/contested outpost, it would be more useful to start your opponent's ships at 0 and move obstacles into their path or in front of the objectives (obstructing their LOS). It would be a somewhat boring game where you just get points while they desperately try to get to you stuck at speeds 2 and 1 (Konstantine, Q7s, etc...)

So it depends on who your opponents Commander is. If you are facing Rieekan you want to slow engagement till late game so that you can kill something and not lose much in response.

The Grav Well token happens before fleet deployment so they don't have to deploy near it however it will limit how they deploy and could even split them up.

Exactly. You'd be exercising control over them. Distance 3 radius is huge. Fire lanes and deployment in a corner with the G7 placed so that their same-side corner is covered, grav shift to move obstacles into their alternate route. Your ships move out in front of your tokens and between those and the obstacles before stopping. Then your opponent has to either jump the obstacles and into your firing range so that you get the first shots (but your G8 catches them by surprise and they land on an obstacle anyways), or they land on the obstacles whilst trying to get around you. All the while, you're still collecting victory tokens with your rear arcs.

And getting back to other combos of weapons upgrades that are cool, Devastator with SW7 and XX9 is not as good as a Mon Karen star cruiser with Veteran Gunners, SW7, XX9, and Xi7 (for less cost, too), but it's still pretty darn good.

Mon Karren will be doing a lot of work. It is 8 points though. . .

Now, Veteran Gunners and leading shots will be fun

If I were to take leading shots, I'd take it with the battle cruiser, but the star cruiser just screams SW7 and veteran gunners. Though most weapons teams would do well here anyways.

What else do we have. . . Ohhh your Fire Lanes with G7 and Grav Shift! (can be used for Contested Outpost as well) You can use Grav Shift to adjust the Outpost towards you (same with Dangerous Territories), and then use GM's to start your self off at 0.

What we're the issues of this ships flexibility again?

I think that when playing your own fire lanes/contested outpost, it would be more useful to start your opponent's ships at 0 and move obstacles into their path or in front of the objectives (obstructing their LOS). It would be a somewhat boring game where you just get points while they desperately try to get to you stuck at speeds 2 and 1 (Konstantine, Q7s, etc...)

So it depends on who your opponents Commander is. If you are facing Rieekan you want to slow engagement till late game so that you can kill something and not lose much in response.

The Grav Well token happens before fleet deployment so they don't have to deploy near it however it will limit how they deploy and could even split them up.

Exactly. You'd be exercising control over them. Distance 3 radius is huge. Fire lanes and deployment in a corner with the G7 placed so that their same-side corner is covered, grav shift to move obstacles into their alternate route. Your ships move out in front of your tokens and between those and the obstacles before stopping. Then your opponent has to either jump the obstacles and into your firing range so that you get the first shots (but your G8 catches them by surprise and they land on an obstacle anyways), or they land on the obstacles whilst trying to get around you. All the while, you're still collecting victory tokens with your rear arcs.

Madine is my new favourite rebel admiral. I shall be running Tantive IV with Raymus to get the nav tokens out there.

However, Dodonna on a Liberty class equipped with X17 and XX-9 turbolasers and a fire control team is going to be priceless. Choosing the best damage card from 4, 3 times? ouch.

And getting back to other combos of weapons upgrades that are cool, Devastator with SW7 and XX9 is not as good as a Mon Karen star cruiser with Veteran Gunners, SW7, XX9, and Xi7 (for less cost, too), but it's still pretty darn good.

Mon Karren will be doing a lot of work. It is 8 points though. . .

Now, Veteran Gunners and leading shots will be fun

If I were to take leading shots, I'd take it with the battle cruiser, but the star cruiser just screams SW7 and veteran gunners. Though most weapons teams would do well here anyways.

What we're the issues of this ships flexibility again?

what if they decide to NOT pick your fleet ambush?

Or if you gaff grav shift+ g7 after deployment your stuck with a ship that cannot kill much of anything, it may be toughish to kill but it will not pull it's Weight damage wise and believe it or not you win games by DESTROYING your opponent

As for the Rebel player starting at speed 0=death then why do most of my rebel opponents start at speed 1?

Yes DTO MAY struggle but most rebels do fine starting slow...

Also I wouldn't use half of those loadouts to argue against the interdictor being 100+ considering that 100 and 101 are in fact 100+

For the spray thing you could instead have coruptor activate them for a similar effect at a discount of 20 points. Plus coruptor works on upto 5 squads and has more firepower

The only point you made that is really valid is that targenting scrambler is good (which I stated multiple times)

Actually you are picking theirs if they have it. If not use Grav Shift and G7 to steal their Outpost and start them at 0. So many options.

DtO likely won't care. It usually starts at 2 and being all small ships means that they can stay out of range easier than medium or large ships.

Kill much? Are you sure? It's got a good arc, can easily double arc with a navigate command, it is 8 dice in 2 attacks and maybe YOU are spoiled by too many dice with the Clonisher but those of us who don't use Ackbar, and other such boosters know the power of 4 dice. When those dice are as reliable as blue dice you can be very consistent.

Sure half of them are 100 points, oh no! What will I ever. . . Oh well? Honestly I don't care becuase the tactical advantage and the ability to utterly frustrate the Clonisher makes its worth it every day of the week.

Sure, you can use Corrupter. Go ahead, go right ahead with weaker turns and an engineering value that makes survival easier.

I am sorry clontroper5 but honestly, the fact that you disregard the basic scientific method of conducting research just makes me disregard your results. You are not showing us any info beyond your own testing which we know nothing about other than it is you playing it and you utterly disregarded the Rebels even though you are now crying how the Liberty is OP.

I have said multiple times this is based on testing in a controlled environment, which is by definition the scientific method which need I remind you is: consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

I have formulated hypothesis and I am testing them constantly, your statements do not denote testing the scientific method and I have adequately refuted all of your points in defense of my hypothesis. This is part of the scientific method

And getting back to other combos of weapons upgrades that are cool, Devastator with SW7 and XX9 is not as good as a Mon Karen star cruiser with Veteran Gunners, SW7, XX9, and Xi7 (for less cost, too), but it's still pretty darn good.

Mon Karren will be doing a lot of work. It is 8 points though. . .

Now, Veteran Gunners and leading shots will be fun

If I were to take leading shots, I'd take it with the battle cruiser, but the star cruiser just screams SW7 and veteran gunners. Though most weapons teams would do well here anyways.

I would do SW7 if I was using Quad Turbolasers as well and Sensor Teams. Even then, leading shots might give you more benefits over SW7's since SW7's is only useful 1/4 of the time.

I think that depends on the other upgrades you're taking with it. The QTC and Sensor team with those sounds like a good way to drill 4 damage onto a ship, but the Mon Karen with and IO does essentially the same job and allows you to take other upgrades in those slots.

As far as leading shots over SW7s, you don't sacrifice a die with SW7 (which translates to free damage) and you can still get a reroll with Veteran gunners (which almost has no effect on SW7), though no gunnery teams.

Though I'm not going to get into too many specifics just yet, at least until July 5th, 10 am Central. I'm sure I'm not the only one looking at all these possible combinations, but I'd still like to at least keep up the illusion that I have a trick or 2 up my sleeves

It just occurred to me that the Liberty is priced exactly such that I can't take four of them and Dodonna. Now I've gone and made myself sad.

I still think that my favorite is a Liberty with XI7 Turbolasers and Heavy Turret Turbolasers. They have a damned if they do, damned if they don't. It will hurt Gladiator and Assault Frigate the most I think.

It just occurred to me that the Liberty is priced exactly such that I can't take four of them and Dodonna. Now I've gone and made myself sad.

Ohhh I saw our resident celebrity tester IceQube on here! Winder what he thinks.

It just occurred to me that the Liberty is priced exactly such that I can't take four of them and Dodonna. Now I've gone and made myself sad.

I guess they just didn't want 4 large ship fleets out there. Though this will probably hurt sales by 25%, with respect to the liberty

What we're the issues of this ships flexibility again?

what if they decide to NOT pick your fleet ambush?

Or if you gaff grav shift+ g7 after deployment your stuck with a ship that cannot kill much of anything, it may be toughish to kill but it will not pull it's Weight damage wise and believe it or not you win games by DESTROYING your opponent

As for the Rebel player starting at speed 0=death then why do most of my rebel opponents start at speed 1?

Yes DTO MAY struggle but most rebels do fine starting slow...

Also I wouldn't use half of those loadouts to argue against the interdictor being 100+ considering that 100 and 101 are in fact 100+

For the spray thing you could instead have coruptor activate them for a similar effect at a discount of 20 points. Plus coruptor works on upto 5 squads and has more firepower

The only point you made that is really valid is that targenting scrambler is good (which I stated multiple times)

Actually you are picking theirs if they have it. If not use Grav Shift and G7 to steal their Outpost and start them at 0. So many options.

DtO likely won't care. It usually starts at 2 and being all small ships means that they can stay out of range easier than medium or large ships.

Kill much? Are you sure? It's got a good arc, can easily double arc with a navigate command, it is 8 dice in 2 attacks and maybe YOU are spoiled by too many dice with the Clonisher but those of us who don't use Ackbar, and other such boosters know the power of 4 dice. When those dice are as reliable as blue dice you can be very consistent.

Sure half of them are 100 points, oh no! What will I ever. . . Oh well? Honestly I don't care becuase the tactical advantage and the ability to utterly frustrate the Clonisher makes its worth it every day of the week.

Sure, you can use Corrupter. Go ahead, go right ahead with weaker turns and an engineering value that makes survival easier.

I am sorry clontroper5 but honestly, the fact that you disregard the basic scientific method of conducting research just makes me disregard your results. You are not showing us any info beyond your own testing which we know nothing about other than it is you playing it and you utterly disregarded the Rebels even though you are now crying how the Liberty is OP.

when did I "disregard the scientific method"

I have said multiple times this is based on testing in a controlled environment, which is by definition the scientific method which need I remind you is: consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

I have formulated hypothesis and I am testing them constantly, your statements do not denote testing the scientific method and I have adequately refuted all of your points in defense of my hypothesis. This is part of the scientific method

Answered in the Interdictor thread.

I like this ship a lot. It's basically a super neb, and I'm ok with that. Should be fun to use, and for its price I may just have to get two of these. I always found the home one version to be tough to use well, and/or required an entire list built around them. The liberty seems like it'll be a refreshing change from other rebel ships.

We keep talking about the low cost, but this thing is an upgrade magnet.

In other words, it wants you to lavish points on it, and when people start running 2 or 3 of these with upgrades and a token fighter force (much like ISDs are sometimes run) people are going to start really feeling the rear and side arc shields. I mean, it will have to deal with the same kind of focused fire as ISDs do, with less effective shields, less hitpoints and less defense tokens in an increasingly accuracy leaning meta. It really isn't that hard to line up a side arc shot with a triple tap demo, and well flown MC30s with the right upgrades could be straight up Liberty murderers. Hell, even lib v lib with the defense token title xi7 and HTT, first one to get a shot into a side arc is laughing.

I guess the point i'm trying to make is that this ship really shines with upgrades, and by the time you get done lathering it with shinies it will be as point-heavy as a moderately upgraded ISD with some real question marks around survivability in a significant number of common situations. I mean, Firesprays will love these. B-wings flown with all these fancy new upgrades will strike terror into a heavy liberty fleet. Its a cool ship, but like the Interdictor, I think they have done a decent job balancing it. (interdictor = 'spensive, Liberty = glass)

lyr vs clone the throw down of the century. Come watch were clone shows how self testing proves irrefutably that the interdictor is no good and the rebs get all the good stuff, while lyr defends the poor ship and offers equally anecdotal thoughts of why it's awesome, all while bashing clones understanding of the scientific method!

meanwhile in the world of plastic spaceships pew pewing the beneficent master minds at FFG have given us awesomeness all around

you don't really have to spam upgrades on it unless there's some silly turbo laser combo

leading shots for re-rolls, gunnery team for dat arc and Mon Karren at most, imo (+19) which is still below or 2 points over a naked ISD-2

really aren't any double turbo-lasers I'd run on it

fickle get off that crack!

you don't really have to spam upgrades on it unless there's some silly turbo laser combo

leading shots for re-rolls, gunnery team for dat arc and Mon Karren at most, imo (+19) which is still below or 2 points over a naked ISD-2

really aren't any double turbo-lasers I'd run on it

Sure, but if I had to face smash something with my ISD while my rhymerball did work (as happened to me last weekend, but i was the one without the Rhymerball) I would much rather that be a slightly upgraded liberty than a nearly naked ISD in terms of how quick it will go down.

Frankly I don't care how bloody amazing you are at deployment or maneouvre a ship this size will likely not be able to out- maneuver a decently flown bomber wing while still actually taking part in the battle. A hard lesson learned by us Imperial humpers is that front arc ships are great! and also fairly **** predictable if you ever want to get them shooting at something.

I'm not saying its a "bad" or "unviable" ship like Clon was waxing on about the interdictor, its a good ship, with good options and a big fat honking red light weakness. IMO best way to deal with these is to fire a death star super laser at them. Failing that, put something in front of it as front-arc bait and then send the bomber lads round back/side for a party! Lets see, my standard ball has 3 firesprays, Dengar, Rhymer and bossk (or 4 FS and no Bossk, he is an experiment) so that's 7.5 average damage (bomber command notwithstanding). a few accuracies on the FS or Bossk down 1 health to lock down that redirect and 1 round of fireball and I could be landing crits on the hull...it's pretty clear that if you plan on running liberties, probably plan to run a minimum of 60 points of fighter screen.

you don't really have to spam upgrades on it unless there's some silly turbo laser combo

leading shots for re-rolls, gunnery team for dat arc and Mon Karren at most, imo (+19) which is still below or 2 points over a naked ISD-2

really aren't any double turbo-lasers I'd run on it

We keep talking about the low cost, but this thing is an upgrade magnet.

In other words, it wants you to lavish points on it, and when people start running 2 or 3 of these with upgrades and a token fighter force (much like ISDs are sometimes run) people are going to start really feeling the rear and side arc shields. I mean, it will have to deal with the same kind of focused fire as ISDs do, with less effective shields, less hitpoints and less defense tokens in an increasingly accuracy leaning meta. It really isn't that hard to line up a side arc shot with a triple tap demo, and well flown MC30s with the right upgrades could be straight up Liberty murderers. Hell, even lib v lib with the defense token title xi7 and HTT, first one to get a shot into a side arc is laughing.

I guess the point i'm trying to make is that this ship really shines with upgrades, and by the time you get done lathering it with shinies it will be as point-heavy as a moderately upgraded ISD with some real question marks around survivability in a significant number of common situations. I mean, Firesprays will love these. B-wings flown with all these fancy new upgrades will strike terror into a heavy liberty fleet. Its a cool ship, but like the Interdictor, I think they have done a decent job balancing it. (interdictor = 'spensive, Liberty = glass)

you don't really have to spam upgrades on it unless there's some silly turbo laser combo

leading shots for re-rolls, gunnery team for dat arc and Mon Karren at most, imo (+19) which is still below or 2 points over a naked ISD-2

really aren't any double turbo-lasers I'd run on it

I want to at least try Spinals and X17's.

lyr vs clone the throw down of the century. Come watch were clone shows how self testing proves irrefutably that the interdictor is no good and the rebs get all the good stuff, while lyr defends the poor ship and offers equally anecdotal thoughts of why it's awesome, all while bashing clones understanding of the scientific method!

meanwhile in the world of plastic spaceships pew pewing the beneficent master minds at FFG have given us awesomeness all around

While thrilled by this new shiny and long awaited ship, I too am questioning the state of the game (#armadadead).

Jokes aside, I don't really like the concept of the ship: while of course some rebel front shooter is nice to have, this is just too much, too easy, too shooty, for far too few points. I am currently in the process of building a spreadsheet to compare the liberty to the ISD to point out that having a 24 points gap between them is just not right, but I'll wait until all the numbers have been crunched to start actually raging.

Please, don't dismiss my opinion as an imperial brainwashed one, because I am not: I indifferently play both rebels and imps, and I find this ship unbalances the game so much it hurts.

Loving the Liberty, Modain and Mon Karren! Speed 3 and engine techs wootywowzers! So cheap too

Looks pretty vulnerable from the sides though

After the disappointment of the Home One, the Liberty is the ship we are looking for!