So I've been playing a new variation of Palp Aces since Imperial Veterans was released last week. But I can't decide who is the best third ship. Right now, the list is:

Countess Ryad

PTL, X7, Engine Upgrade (39)

OGP

Palpatine (29)

The final ship is either the Inquisitor (PTL, V1, Autothrusters) or Omega Leader (Juke, Comm Relay, Stealth Device). I can also squeeze in Reinforced Deflectors onto the shuttle if I take Omega; I'd really like Sensor Jammer but it's 1 point too many.

I've played both versions of the list now, but I can't decide who I like best in that last slot. Can anyone sway me either way on this?

Why no Vessery+Steatlh+x7+VI ?

In an ace list, paired with Inquisitor he brings much more value than Ryad.

Im recently toying with similar list but use Vessery+Inki+Yorr (just so Vessery can turn once in a while)

I like Ryad but I kinda feel she doesn't need Palpatine. With 6 health behind 3 agility and normally a Focus + Evade, she is not a fragile target. She can take the odd hit and keep on pummeling as Defenders are tough little ships. Palpatine is at his best when keeping your glass cannons like Fel alive.

Why no Vessery+Steatlh+x7+VI ?

In an ace list, paired with Inquisitor he brings much more value than Ryad.

Im recently toying with similar list but use Vessery+Inki+Yorr (just so Vessery can turn once in a while)

Because I really like the Countess and want to play her?

I like Ryad but I kinda feel she doesn't need Palpatine. With 6 health behind 3 agility and normally a Focus + Evade, she is not a fragile target. She can take the odd hit and keep on pummeling as Defenders are tough little ships. Palpatine is at his best when keeping your glass cannons like Fel alive.

It makes her even tougher though if needs be, plus it also means that your other ace can receive the majority of the protection if they're more fragile.

Inquisitor every time for me. He fits the bill in terms of the unkillable ace, especially with Palp. Omega Leader is not as tanky.

Why no Vessery+Steatlh+x7+VI ?

In an ace list, paired with Inquisitor he brings much more value than Ryad.

Im recently toying with similar list but use Vessery+Inki+Yorr (just so Vessery can turn once in a while)

Because I really like the Countess and want to play her?

You asked for feedback i gave you feedback, of course its up to you but Vessery brings much more to the table especially in aces list, where you need both of yout ships (lambda may or may not shoot at all) to hit as hard as possible.

If you want PtL Ryad and OGP there are exacly 35 points to include Soontir, assuming you drop EU that can be pretty lackluster with ps5

I didn't ask for feedback on my choice of Ryad, though. I asked for help deciding between Omega Leader and the Inquisitor. I'm happy with the rest of the list.

And Engine is actually amazing on Ryad but not in the same way that it's amazing on someone like Soontir. I have played the two versions multiple times now, and in all cases Ryad was lower PS than all the opposing ships. She never failed to have a shot, every single turn.

I didn't ask for feedback on my choice of Ryad, though. I asked for help deciding between Omega Leader and the Inquisitor. I'm happy with the rest of the list.

And Engine is actually amazing on Ryad but not in the same way that it's amazing on someone like Soontir. I have played the two versions multiple times now, and in all cases Ryad was lower PS than all the opposing ships. She never failed to have a shot, every single turn.

Since I have nothing better to do at the moment, I'm going to type out all the Ryad builds I'm currently exploring! Lucky anyone that feels like reading my blathering!

List 1 --- Rival Schools (a playstation game I used to love, and fitting given the fluff about Fel + Ryad)

Soontir Fel - 34 pts

-push the limit

-royal guard title

-autothrusters

-target comp

Ryad - 39 pts

-push the limit

-X-7 title

-engine upgrade

Academy Pilot (x2) - 12 pts x 2

total: 97

A fun list but ultimately will struggle against a very well flown crack swarm player. Basically, you want to use Fel as bait and get your three ships chasing after the swarm as it tries to obliterate Fel. The problem is, if Fel does get obliterated and you don't destroy enough TIEs quickly, Ryad can run into problems and fail to close it out. If Fel doesn't get obliterated though, you basically win. Any other matchup is pretty good for you though.

List 2 --- Veterans of the Inquisition

Engine Ryad - 39 pts (as above)

Inquisitor - 34 pts

-push the limit

-V-1 title

-autothrusters

-proton rockets

Gamma Veteran - 27 points

-crack shot

-homing missile

-extra munitions

-long-range scanners

total: 100

I've already talked about this list in one of the other 'defender' threads, so all I'll say is that each ship is there to cover each other's weaknesses so that you never have a bad matchup. Engine Ryad is unbeatable 1v1 (except against Dash). Inquisitor gives solid damage at all ranges plus has the bonus benefit of being decent against Dash 1v1 (without Inqy, Dash is a REALLY bad matchup). Gamma Vet is the much needed early game burst damage dealer to even the odds against swarms so that Ryad and Inquisitor can clean up.

List 3 --- Defender Aces

Rexler Brath - 41 pts

-predator

-TIE/D title

-tractor beam

Engine Ryad - 39 pts (as above)

Alpha Squad Pilot - 20 pts

-autothrusters

100

This is just my take on Biophysical's ace defender list (he has Wampa instead of Alpha interceptor and puts ion cannon + hull on rexler). The reason I dropped Wampa for Alpha is because I like interceptors and I feel it gives me much better odds of winning against torpedo scouts (he's also pretty handy against turrets in general and can threaten blocks against aces). Not to mention, I think Ryad's biggest hurdle is getting through the early part of the game unscathed when the enemy still has lots of ships. Tractor Beam + 3 ships all toting attack 3 guns means that you have very good odds of downing an enemy in the first turn of shooting (or at least getting a significant 'damage lead'). Engine Ryad really starts to shine once the enemy list starts to dwindle, so boosting firepower is the best way to achieve it, imho.

List 4 --- Stele Countess

Maarek Stele - 44 pts

-predator

-TIE/D title

-ion cannon

-hull upgrade

Countess Ryad - 43 pts

-outmanoeuvre

-TIE/D title

-ion cannon

-hull upgrade

Academy Pilot - 12 pts

Total: 99

Although I REALLY like engine upgrade on Ryad, so far I'm not that impressed with using it + push the limit along with the TIE/D title. And with two ion cannons, I feel Ryad is the best ship to exploit outmanoeuvre, so it seems like a potent combo. Small initiative bid gives Maarek the edge against Dash (since almost all dash lists sit at 100 pts). So far, I haven't encountered any bad matchups for this list, but I think you do have to be careful in how you approach torpedo scouts.

So yeah, I think Ryad with engine is awesome, but does require having the list built around her to maximize her strengths and minimize weaknesses (but that's how I always approach list-building...)

Although I REALLY like engine upgrade on Ryad, so far I'm not that impressed with using it + push the limit along with the TIE/D title.

This is a really key point. Engine lets Ryad make the most of the X7 title because you rarely need to go slow - I've so far not found myself ever wanting to do a slow bank or anything like that because I'll simply do a long k-turn and then use the boost to set up the angle. That way I've still got my evade token, which you obviously can't get by normal means and I value this very, very highly. And this, for me, is what makes the ship fun/interesting to fly and why I take her over Vessery or any of the other pilots.

TIE/D is probably much better served by taking TIE Mk. 2 than Engine.

I'm just not sold on an engine upgrade on Ryad, specifically since she's PS 5. And without the engine upgrade, I don't really find PTL worth the points. I find setting her up with x7, Juke and Mk II is really effective and keeps her cost down. It gives her nice action economy AND it doesn't stress her out. If you are going into combat phase with Ryad sitting right behind you riding a focus and evade to power juke, you're not going to have a good time. Another option is to use her ability to maximize Outmaneuver. She's really one of the few pilots that can abuse that EPT because she can K-turn at so many different speeds and can use it to get in behind other ships really easily.

But if you're looking for the actual answer to your question, I'd go with Omega Leader. When you combine his ability with a target lock and active Juke, you can get in a surprising amount of damage with just 2-3 attack dice. He's tougher to kill than the Inquisitor and sports a better movement dial on top of it.

I'm just not sold on an engine upgrade on Ryad, specifically since she's PS 5.

You don't have to be. Suffice to say, that there are people who are sold on it!

I've tried to explain how and why its good, but you don't seem interested. Its not like I'm theorizing neither---I've used it (on VASSAL), and a few others I know have used the same build, and it does things other ships can't (most importantly, other defenders!). If you don't get it, don't worry, no one's stopping you from flying Ryad the way you like!

I'm just not sold on an engine upgrade on Ryad, specifically since she's PS 5.

You don't have to be. Suffice to say, that there are people who are sold on it!

I've tried to explain how and why its good, but you don't seem interested. Its not like I'm theorizing neither---I've used it (on VASSAL), and a few others I know have used the same build, and it does things other ships can't (most importantly, other defenders!). If you don't get it, don't worry, no one's stopping you from flying Ryad the way you like!

In general, people do not appreciate the ~0 move K-Turn - until they see/do it.

I mean, I do see the benefit of it and the interesting moves you can make. But I also see the things that you can't do when you choose this setup, and those lost opportunities are quite valuable. Assuming the purpose of your 0 K-turn is to get into range 1, a focused range 2 shot with 3 dice is better than an unmodified range 1 shot with 4 dice. By a lot. If a Defender had a native boost option, I'd probably go PTL a lot more with them because you could still have Mk II to give you move options to remove stress.

One of my favorite things about Engine Upgrade Ryad is how you can react to Phantom decloaking. Once Phantoms decloak, it's often not too hard to narrow their possible moves by a lot. Ryad can react to this by changing the facing of her straight move, then chaining off Barrel Roll and Boost when necessary. That' a lot of flexibility to set up shots, blocks, or simply to get the hell out of the way. Certainly non-Engine Upgrade Ryad still has some flexibility here, but it's substantially nicer with Engine Upgrade.