When one of our players got tired of her character and wanted something new, she let the GM know. He set up a situation where the big bad BH nemesis of the group tried to take us out with a grenade. Her character jumped on it and sacrificed herself to save us. It was a good cinematic moment to me, her character went out a hero and now we have extra motivation to hold a grudge against the enemy.

With regular characters, I did one really long Amber session about 26 years back (**** I'm old). One fellow wanted to have his character go in a blaze of glory; which he did when he took out a major renegade Chaos Lord with blood magic and himself in the process. We made a point of taking care of his widow after that. They were trying desperately to save him and I finally had to give in that it was his idea. I think they might have hurt me otherwise....

One question; should I communicate to the GM that I want to retire the character so he can prepare for it, or should I wait for a natural opportunity to retire him?

For most if not all questions which begin "should I communicate to the GM", the answer should be a definite 'yes'. Generally speaking there's no good reason to keep anything about your character or your desires for your character secret from your GM (keeping secrets from other players , on the other hand, is a completely different discussion).

Yeah, gotta love this.

I wanted to use a triumph generated on a check to find jobs on cloud city to have there be a cook position available, as cooking is my character's former job and passion, to which he said no. Keep in mind I was looking to potentially retire the character here, as he is an ughnaught and it would make sense to have him stay with his kind on cloud city, but I would only have done that if he could have been a cook--but our GM still said no.

(emphasis mine) And then two days later we see this question:

One question; should I communicate to the GM that I want to retire the character so he can prepare for it, or should I wait for a natural opportunity to retire him?

You present this as the bolded information should be relevant to the GM's behavior, but disguise the fact you haven't provided the GM with the relevant information! How could you possibly expect your GM to act on that if you haven't told him? The characterization of situation is completely unfair.

And why did it take a week to respond to this? Apparently insulting posts like this are acceptable and appropriate, but what I wrote was so despicable a week ban without warning or discussion was the appropriate response despite no warning points on my account. Oh wait, apparently a warning from a year ago that was subsequently removed from my account is still relevant... right.

I never harassed this poster.

And I have rainbow-colored rancor that craps diamonds.

Oh wait.

Saying things on the internet doesn't make them true.

This individual has been trying to get me banned from this site for nearly a year now by spam reporting my post every chance he gets. And when that doesn't get him results fast enough, he tries to get a gang of other posters to target me . You disagree with me, so I shouldn't have a voice here? You don't like my tone, so you get a lynch mob.

Yeah, you're a real stand up guy. No way that was an attack...

For whatever reason, when I report posters for their toxic crap nothing happens. Despite reporting their insults and bile for years, the same posters keep posting the same attacks. Or if I'm really lucky, they call me out and get another mob together . Again, this behavior is considered acceptable and appropriate.

And I'm the one that needs thicker skin?

I'd rather lose my voice in the community than keep being the target of the hypocrisy here. Which is probably what this post is going to cost.

I'd rather lose my voice in the community than keep being the target of the hypocrisy here. Which is probably what this post is going to cost.

Man, why are you carrying around this backpack of hurt? It's not worth it. Surely you recognize your own part in how things became this way, and surely you realize that playing into it usually ends up burning YOU.

Here, free hugs for everyone!

Just to quickly explain, during the session that the whole cook jobs thing occurred I and some of the other players assumed that that session would be the last, as certain players are going to be moving away. This was never explicitly said, though, so there seemed to be a disconnect between us and the GM. Which is why I asked if I Should inform my GM of the disconnect.

But that's the last I'm going to say on this topic. This thread seems to be going down the road of comment wars and insults, which is not something I want to be a part of. I'm willing to admit that I share the blame for the problems I've been feeling since I've failed to communicate well with the GM and probably expected the wrong things out of him. If that isn't good enough for you, then I'm sorry but I really have nothing else to say.

It is ok to disagree, you guys! Why get angry about it?... It only leads to the dark side...

I'm willing to admit that I share the blame for the problems I've been feeling since I've failed to communicate well with the GM and probably expected the wrong things out of him. If that isn't good enough for you, then I'm sorry but I really have nothing else to say.

Yes, the issue is the lack of communication, not the GM refusing to say 'Yes, but' to everything. I'm glad you finally got the point and it only took getting me banned.

It is ok to disagree, you guys! Why get angry about it?... It only leads to the dark side...

If you think I'm angry about the disagreement, then you have completely missed the point.

It is ok to disagree, you guys! Why get angry about it?... It only leads to the dark side...

If you think I'm angry about the disagreement, then you have completely missed the point.

Ok, I probably have. Hope you are ok, man!

I'd rather lose my voice in the community than keep being the target of the hypocrisy here. Which is probably what this post is going to cost.

Man, why are you carrying around this backpack of hurt? It's not worth it. Surely you recognize your own part in how things became this way, and surely you realize that playing into it usually ends up burning YOU.

Of course I recognize my own part in it. How could I miss it, it's what everyone else vocally focuses on. I guess it's easier to ignore their part that way, and avoid asking why it's happening in the first place?

I get burned one way or the other. Repeatedly assailed or banned. Whats the difference? One is a terminal situation.

BTW this is only my second post in this thread that doesn't, at least in part, directly address the OP or their questions. Go ahead and check. I'm not responding to any more posts about me here, I won't be accused of derailing the thread any further.

I'd rather lose my voice in the community than keep being the target of the hypocrisy here. Which is probably what this post is going to cost.

Man, why are you carrying around this backpack of hurt? It's not worth it. Surely you recognize your own part in how things became this way, and surely you realize that playing into it usually ends up burning YOU.

Of course I recognize my own part in it. How could I miss it, it's what everyone else vocally focuses on. I guess it's easier to ignore their part that way, and avoid asking why it's happening in the first place?

So if you recognize your own part in it, do you feel like perhaps softening the tone of your messages might help bring you more into the realm of peaceful coexistence with this community? I can see why you feel attacked, but I can also see the impetus behind it. Far be it for me to tell you or anyone else how to be, but how we got to this point seems obvious to an external observer, and the way out is equally obvious.

LethalDose, I don't know you, I have nothing against you, and I'm not advocating that you be banned. So please don't lump me in with people who attack you because I'm not trying to do that.

I look back in this thread to the beginning and after the OP, there were constructive replies, some supportive of the player, others providing mild criticism or at least advice on how things might have been done better. Your first post provided nothing constructive at all, it was pure sarcasm. It was the first post in this thread to take on such a tone and really changed the way this thread progressed.

You may have had a good point if you had phrased your post differently. If you'd said that the GM may have had a good reason to deny the requests and explained why it probably would have been well-received. The use of sarcasm and accusing the OP of unwarranted claims of victimhood are inevitably going to bring backlash and will derail the thread, as it ultimately did.

Your point of view doesn't seem to be unwelcome, only the way you express it. I hope you can soften your delivery as themensch suggested.

I agree. I do not agree with LethalDose about the No/Yes-issue, but what got to me was the sarcasm and attitude, not the opinion. Can we get past that and start over?

Peace and understanding, all. Opinions are just that, nothing more.

I do not agree with LethalDose about the No/Yes-issue

And that's fine. In my view the "Yes, and..." style is totally acceptable, despite the accusation that I "hate the idea that it is more fun for the players when the GM says Yes" .

That doesn't mean that I agree with contrapostive: A style in which the GM can say 'No' is...

• Bad OR
• Problematic OR
• Disallowed OR
• Contrary to the nature of the game OR
• Player-unfriendly OR
• Any other negative or exclusionary adjective... By the Force, I hope you get the point...

Rodian, I'm not aware of anywhere that you've espoused "No is Wrong". You aren't starting threads like this one trying to get your GM to change that style behind his back. You haven't made accusations of 'hate' because someone thinks that it's okay for a GM to occasionally say 'no'. I haven't seen you try to get people to report anyone for their 'tone' or rub it in their face if/when you do report them by wasting a post to say "I reported you a bunch of times" and nothing else.

So we don't have a problem. Why would we? Disagree all you want.

My style of GM'ing sometimes includes saying No for good reasons, so don't expect me to apologize if I take umbrage when someone comes claiming that GMs that say no need to be stopped/changed because it's causing problems and breaking the rules and ruining your game.

I agree that "no" is wrong if, and only if, it's ALWAYS the answer. Railroading isn't fun. The game should be give and take. "No" has it's places, like not allowing your players to take advantage of you. Be open to new ideas, not owned by them.

This game is about having fun, right? If it would more fun for everyone at the table, including the GM, if the GM loosened up a little and said yes and a little more often (not all the time, but when appropriate), why shouldn't he? Again, not saying I dislike my GM, he's a very good friend, just saying that a little less no would be more fun for our group. Not every group, but this one.

I actually utilized this GMing strategy recently and had a blast, so problem solved. Lethal Dose, I get your point of view. Do what works best for your table, and let other GMs do the same. Sorry that I misunderstand your opinion on this issue, as you seem to think the yes and style is perfectly acceptable. Again--I'll do me, and you'll do you. Just do what's most fun, because that's why we're here.

I believe you should always consider "yes and...", but that only applies if the players are being fair and playing by the rules...

"No, you can't suddenly say you were a droid in disguise all along because that creates too many plot holes and other issues"

Sure, agree, but that is a different kind of No.

Saying yes as often as you can, if the players are playing fair, sure, I absolutely believe that makes the game better!

Peace

There's a massive difference between "loosening up" and being eaten alive. My old group I gm'd for taught me the power of "no".

Trust me, one of my players was a physics major and thought he could outsmart me.

Ironically, he's the only one left of that particular group, but he's calmed down.

It's not fun when your players are having fun kicking down your sand castle, on purpose.

I totally agree, which is why I have said that GMs should say no when necessary. I think the distinction is that thy should try and find a way to say yes and when the player has a genuine and fun idea for the story or characters, not when they are intentionally trying to rig th system.

I live by "maybe", I allow anyone who has an idea a chance to explain why I should say yes. It really does work.

I'm not sure I really understand "yes, and"

I like that idea. I think it's a good middle ground.

I'm not sure I really understand "yes, and"

It's an improv thing, wherein one actor is encouraged to build upon what another actor does instead of put the kybosh on it. This technique is reported to both empower the ongoing creativity and the actor so that they feel encouraged remain "open" to the ideas of others. The Campaign podcast is performed by trained improv actors if there's any interest in seeing how it's applied to a game setting.

That is to say, if the books I read on improv acting are to be believed.

Oh, geez. I'm awful at improv. Have trouble thinking on my feet. I'm a schemer.

It should never be players vs gm! In those cases you don`t have a good game to start with!

In a good game, where everyonoe is playing fair, you should always "yes and..." for the best possible roleplaying game experience. Everyone is telling the story!

If players are being douchebags and are not playing fair, fulfilling their part of the unwritten contract of contributing to the fun and not trying to break the game,

of course the gm should say NO loud and clear, but I feel that is besides the point!

"Yes and..." only applies when everyone is playing fair!