Doomshuttle still sees a lot of use.

I think 4 x Gamma Squadron Veterans with Plasma Torpedoes, Extra Munitions, Deadeye and Guidance Chips could ruin a lot of Contracted Scouts days. Could even switch Deadeye out for Crackshot

That list does screw over U Boat lists, problem is, it in turn gets screwed over by PalpAces. I believe that's why it doesn't see a lot of tournament scene maybe. Putting all your eggs into one basket to fight a list you may not even see.

It doesn't ser a lot of tournament play because Imperial Veterans still isn't on sale yet everywhere.

And if three Scouts with munitions and Deadeye work against PalpAces, then four Bombers with munitions and Deadeye should work pretty well too.

The Bomber fix that I really want to see is the one that gives Tomax Bren a functioning pilot ability under tournament rules. As it is, one-shot EPTs are still one-shot EPTs on him.

Doomshuttle still sees a lot of use.I think 4 x Gamma Squadron Veterans with Plasma Torpedoes, Extra Munitions, Deadeye and Guidance Chips could ruin a lot of Contracted Scouts days. Could even switch Deadeye out for Crackshot

That list does screw over U Boat lists, problem is, it in turn gets screwed over by PalpAces. I believe that's why it doesn't see a lot of tournament scene maybe. Putting all your eggs into one basket to fight a list you may not even see.

That's the issue I've found with bomber lists.While it'll do great against jousters, it'll fall flat against ace lists. They just fly around you, while you keep trying to 3turn and barrel roll trying to catch them in arc

Once you have your TL, you do a 5k and unleash hell. If not in range, do a 1 forward and unleash hell with TL and focus.

My friends and I use bombers a lot so it's not all that hard to avoid them as needed.

Before you even get that target lock you can be dead, and after you do, your kturning, getting stressed while the ace is just avoiding you.

Plus if your target locking and are out PS you have no focus to even help modify those two green dice making it even harder to survive. (unless you have lrs)

Don't forget you also have to take into account rocks and stuff. It's not that easy with bombers, they don't exactly have the best dial for clearing stress, and chances are you probably have gc, or lrs, no Tie engine mod. Which makes them extremely predictable

4 Gammas will not be able to handle aces like uBoats. UBoats have that large base to barrel roll with making it excellent to block. Much easier than a small base shop, and plus it has deadeye and all the bells and whistles to go with, not to mention 3 scouts still has more hp vs 4 bombers.

Scout 4 shields, 5 hull

3 scouts total 27 hp

Bombers 6 hull

4 bombers total 24 hp, and no shields which makes a big difference

How many times my poor buddy with rhymer would get nicely lined up for that sweet shot only to get blinded pilot. Then it's goodbye rhymer

I don't deny bombers are in a better position, but I'm afraid it's not by much. Not when the other options out there can do what they do, but have an easier time. Dial wise etc.

It's sad but I believe if we see bombers in too spots it'll be as a crew shuttle, not ordnance carrier unfortunately happy for the defender fix, but wave 8 did not do well for the bomber situation. This bombers fix is a wave or two late. If it came between wave 5-6 or even 7 it would have helped a ton I believe. Now that we have uBoats, I think you'll see them just as much as before.

I don't mean to be a negative Nancy about it, but it's just from what I've seen using them and flying against them. I love the bombers despite their flaws.

Now the Punisher, don't get me started on that disappointment

5X Scimitar Squadron Pilot

Extra Munitions 2 Seismic Charges 2 Guidance Chips 0 Ship Total: 20

Guidance Chips isn't doing anything for you here.

Now if you're talking about the poor punisher, then yeah the big guy needs a little love

I agree whole-heartedly. I think it would be easy to make them competitive and not OP.

Wow! Thank you all for the responses. I appreciate the insight.

Once you have your TL, you do a 5k and unleash hell. If not in range, do a 1 forward and unleash hell with TL and focus.

A smart fel player can see that coming a mile away.

My friends and I use bombers a lot so it's not all that hard to avoid them as needed.

Before you even get that target lock you can be dead, and after you do, your kturning, getting stressed while the ace is just avoiding you.

'Smart' works both ways. A smart bomber player will not approach Fel with all of his bombers in formation so that its easy for Fel to dodge all their arcs.

Imperial Vets releases a card that seems to have slipped under the internet radar: Long Range Scanners.

I guess its a case of people can't see passed the 'downside'. Sort of like how so many people think Attanni Mindlink is crap (spoiler: its not!)

This puppy has the potential to hold its own against all the popular meta lists right now:

Gamma Vet - 25 pts

-crackshot

-homing missile

-long-range scanners

If you like, throw extra munitions on there for 27 points.

You could fly 4 of them if you like (but for the love of old ben, don't fly them all bunched up and easy pickings for arc-dodgers!)

But personally, I'm going to run a pair of those bad boys alongside Whisper:

Whisper - 44 pts

-Veteran Instincts

-FCS

-Gunner

-ACD

Gamma Vet (x2) - 27 pts (x2)

-crackshot

-homing missile

-extra munitions

-LRS

98

If you can't see how that potentially murders palp aces, crackshot swarms and u-boats, well, I don't know what to tell ya....

Scimitar Squadron Pilot (16)

Extra Munitions (2)

Concussion Missiles (4)

Guidance Chips (0)

Total: 22

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

If I'm up against Palp Aces, I wouldn't mind running this bad boy. Why? Because I'm nearly guaranteed to take most of the hull off the Palpenshuttle on the first round of fire. Sure, Soontir may dance circles around me, but that's fine: it makes my bomber into a heavy hitting bait ship. Do I want to run 5 of these? Nope. But 1? Yes. Yes I do.

Once you have your TL, you do a 5k and unleash hell. If not in range, do a 1 forward and unleash hell with TL and focus.

A smart fel player can see that coming a mile away.

My friends and I use bombers a lot so it's not all that hard to avoid them as needed.

Before you even get that target lock you can be dead, and after you do, your kturning, getting stressed while the ace is just avoiding you.

'Smart' works both ways. A smart bomber player will not approach Fel with all of his bombers in formation so that its easy for Fel to dodge all their arcs.

Imperial Vets releases a card that seems to have slipped under the internet radar: Long Range Scanners.

I guess its a case of people can't see passed the 'downside'. Sort of like how so many people think Attanni Mindlink is crap (spoiler: its not!)

This puppy has the potential to hold its own against all the popular meta lists right now:

Gamma Vet - 25 pts

-crackshot

-homing missile

-long-range scanners

If you like, throw extra munitions on there for 27 points.

You could fly 4 of them if you like (but for the love of old ben, don't fly them all bunched up and easy pickings for arc-dodgers!)

But personally, I'm going to run a pair of those bad boys alongside Whisper:

Whisper - 44 pts

-Veteran Instincts

-FCS

-Gunner

-ACD

Gamma Vet (x2) - 27 pts (x2)

-crackshot

-homing missile

-extra munitions

-LRS

98

If you can't see how that potentially murders palp aces, crackshot swarms and u-boats, well, I don't know what to tell ya....

Hypothetical let's say you manage to get two in arc of fel. He knows this will happen. Looking at his options he decides to boost, into range 1 of 1 bomber and now only 1 is going to shoot

Fel will probably still just shrug that off, and there is a good chance he may even kill a bomber with the rest of his squad before it gets to shoot.

There is a lot of what ifs, so we can probably sit here and do this till we are blue in the face, but one thing I do know is, it's not easy for bombers to catch fast ships, and it shouldn't be really. They are not dogfighters.

And if your talking about have 4 Gamma Vets with no extra munitions, your probably not going to beat tripple uBoats because it'll take mostly all your missles to kill just 1. It'll take 3 missles to kill 1 uBoat so long as his dice are crap. Now if you add extra munitions, your down a ship because you can't squeeze 4 into a list at 27 pts. So again you'll probably kill 1 uBoats, and he'll kill a bomber. It's 2 vs 2 now but it's going to very possibly take you 3 shots to kill 1 vs his 2, and he has better modifiers, and with that lower PS, a better blocker. If two equally skilled players were flying these, I'd put my money on the uBoats player. As much as I hate to say it

What I do agree with is your list though. Spamming bombers is not going to work because they just can't maneuver. While yes some will get shots off, you really need to be focus firing. Not having half your squad not shooting a turn. That's bad. Running 1 Maybe 2 may work. So long as you have something more threatening. Something that'll make your opponent really consider which should I go for first

You have almost the same list I came up with. I had whisper, tomax (two aces a 8 and 9) and a Gamma vet. Or omega leader (which gives you another annoying ship)

Whisper

Kallus

Fcs

Advanced cloak

Veteran Instincts

Tomax

Crackshot

Extra Munitions

Guidance chips

Proton Torpedoes

Gamma vet

Deadeye

Extra Munitions

Guidance chips

Homing missles

Leaves you at 99 pts for initiative. No need for flying in formation. Two high PS ships. All pack a punch. I do look forward to trying this soon

The Bomber fix that I really want to see is the one that gives Tomax Bren a functioning pilot ability under tournament rules. As it is, one-shot EPTs are still one-shot EPTs on him.

After the pack is released they will inevitably provide an FAQ that provides his rules for tournament play.

They don't do it beforehand, so this kind of concern comes up pretty much every single wave.

Scimitar Squadron Pilot (16)

Extra Munitions (2)

Concussion Missiles (4)

Guidance Chips (0)

Total: 22

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

If I'm up against Palp Aces, I wouldn't mind running this bad boy. Why? Because I'm nearly guaranteed to take most of the hull off the Palpenshuttle on the first round of fire. Sure, Soontir may dance circles around me, but that's fine: it makes my bomber into a heavy hitting bait ship. Do I want to run 5 of these? Nope. But 1? Yes. Yes I do.

But, that Scimitar doesn't have any upgrade from Imp Vets...

Why you didn't use it yet??

With the new expansion and recent munitions patches, Bombers are now a perfectly viable and entirely sensible ordnance platform.

... pity Jumpmasters broke ordnance in half before the Aces pack came out, eh?

The ship is fine, beyond 'not as good as jumpmasters', and honestly I don't really know how to fix that one without patching nearly everything .

Gamma Vets can use Homing Missiles, which combine R4 Agromech and 4-LOM. They have a damage capability that can potentialy outclass U-Boats.

The Bomber fix that I really want to see is the one that gives Tomax Bren a functioning pilot ability under tournament rules. As it is, one-shot EPTs are still one-shot EPTs on him.

Care to elaborate ?

- Tomax: Once per round, after you discard an [Pilot] Upgrade card, flip that card faceup.

- Crack Shot: When attacking a ship inside your firing arc, at the start of the "Compare Results" step, you may discard this card to cancel 1 of the defender's results.

- Tournament Rules: Discarded Cards

When a player is instructed to discard a Ship card or Upgrade card, he flips

it facedown instead. Facedown Ship and Upgrade cards are out of play and

treated as discarded. Discarded Upgrade cards remain next to the Ship card

to which they are equipped; they are not placed into the score pile unless the

ship to which they are equipped is destroyed.

Seems pretty cut and dry.

It is a truth, universally acknowledged, that any ship which cannot single handedly win a Nationals or Worlds is in need of a fix.

Oh, the prejudice!

The Bomber fix that I really want to see is the one that gives Tomax Bren a functioning pilot ability under tournament rules. As it is, one-shot EPTs are still one-shot EPTs on him.

Care to elaborate ?

- Tomax: Once per round, after you discard an [Pilot] Upgrade card, flip that card faceup.

- Crack Shot: When attacking a ship inside your firing arc, at the start of the "Compare Results" step, you may discard this card to cancel 1 of the defender's results.

- Tournament Rules: Discarded Cards

When a player is instructed to discard a Ship card or Upgrade card, he flips

it facedown instead. Facedown Ship and Upgrade cards are out of play and

treated as discarded. Discarded Upgrade cards remain next to the Ship card

to which they are equipped; they are not placed into the score pile unless the

ship to which they are equipped is destroyed.

Seems pretty cut and dry.

It seems pretty cut and dry for people who play tournaments and read those rules. Not everyone does and I didn't even know that tournament rule existed. No real problem but I've wondered why they worded it this way. Nothing in the rules that I know of says anything like the tournament rule of discard actually mean keep face down.

I think going with a Gamma Vet and Deadeye is the wrong way to go. It forces you to go with a Plasma Torpedo. I think Homing Missiles is where it is at when you want to deal with Aces. Here's the list that I would be working like hell right now to test out....if I were into the tournament scene:

With the new expansion and recent munitions patches, Bombers are now a perfectly viable and entirely sensible ordnance platform.

... pity Jumpmasters broke ordnance in half before the Aces pack came out, eh?

The ship is fine, beyond 'not as good as jumpmasters', and honestly I don't really know how to fix that one without patching nearly everything .

Take away the EPT for the scout. Job done.

Ya, you know it's not that easy.

Sorry man, but bombers used in this case are just not going to cut it.

Tell you what, if I see one, just one list like this in a top 8 then I'll say I was wrong but as it stands, this list does not scare me.

I've actually played against a similar list and my poor buddy just didn't stand a chance, and he didn't fly in formation and is quite good with bombers, but my list tore him apart, so was a quick game

Oh and as far as I know you can still fire off homing missles with dead eye. Don't know why you think your forced into plasma Torpedoes if using dead eye

Edit

Most times I agree with what you say, but sadly I cannot agree about the bombers.

Maybe if you play against someone who never flies against them,but when flying against them they usually die pretty quick. This list has potential to do well, but it's still going to be tough against uBoats, aces,bro bots etc.

Don't forget uBoats will probably block Ya. And you still need 3 missles to kill 1 vs their 2 missles to kill 1 of yours, And if your against aces but only getting 1-2 shot off, and not getting everything to focus fire, your just wastin your time. Brobots, will probably kill one before it fires

Cost.

Bombers right now are fine even with out Vets they don't need yet another fix. I'll post my list from Nationals again, it handles all builds including Aces fairly well but you have to fly it a bit differently. I personally just try to keep things in front as much as possible.

Gamma Squadron Pilot + Extra Munitions + Flechette Torpedoes + Guidance Chips + XX-23 S-Thread Tracers
Gamma Squadron Pilot + Extra Munitions + Plasma Torpedoes + Seismic Charges + Guidance Chips
Gamma Squadron Pilot + Extra Munitions + Proton Torpedoes + Seismic Charges + Guidance Chips
Gamma Squadron Pilot + Extra Munitions + Guidance Chips + Assault Missiles + XX-23 S-Thread Tracers
(100)

With Vets I think they become even more specialize support ships to fit a nitch in a role. I'm starting to experiment with PTL PS 5s as bomb carriers with conners nets and proximity mines. Inspired by what I saw from the 2 K-Wing build at the Game and Stuff regional.

Tie Shuttles I think are going to be under utilized but can be good support ships. I still like a Suicide Bomber with Vader whose sole purpose is to go Ace hunting.

Ya, you know it's not that easy.

Sorry man, but bombers used in this case are just not going to cut it.

Tell you what, if I see one, just one list like this in a top 8 then I'll say I was wrong but as it stands, this list does not scare me.

I've actually played against a similar list and my poor buddy just didn't stand a chance, and he didn't fly in formation and is quite good with bombers, but my list tore him apart, so was a quick game

Oh and as far as I know you can still fire off homing missles with dead eye. Don't know why you think your forced into plasma Torpedoes if using dead eye

I think we should just agree to disagree.

I also don't think it's easy, but I don't think it's a forgone conclusion, either.

I doubt we will see Tie Bombers in the top tables of anything because I have little faith in the creativity and ballsy-ness of most good tournament players. Most stick to tried and true lists and rarely try new things. I did say most.

Ya, you know it's not that easy.

Sorry man, but bombers used in this case are just not going to cut it.

Tell you what, if I see one, just one list like this in a top 8 then I'll say I was wrong but as it stands, this list does not scare me.

I've actually played against a similar list and my poor buddy just didn't stand a chance, and he didn't fly in formation and is quite good with bombers, but my list tore him apart, so was a quick game

Oh and as far as I know you can still fire off homing missles with dead eye. Don't know why you think your forced into plasma Torpedoes if using dead eye

I think we should just agree to disagree.

I also don't think it's easy, but I don't think it's a forgone conclusion, either.

I doubt we will see Tie Bombers in the top tables of anything because I have little faith in the creativity and ballsy-ness of most good tournament players. Most stick to tried and true lists and rarely try new things. I did say most.

Haha fair enough

I would love to take them to a tournament, but when I can only make 1-2 a year, and have to travel I tend to use something I know gives better results. I would love to fly my Decimator and 3 scimitar build because I've gone over ten wins and only one lose, but again when I have to drive out of province for any competitive event, I prefer not not gamble

If I lived in an area where I could go down the street and have 3 different stores in the same town with tournaments, I'd probably try using a list like that just because.

I never know when and if I'll get to another really

@kinggargoyl

How did you do at National with that list?

I have a wife and kids, but there are a number of stores that I could attend to do a Store Championship. Most wouldn't have over 20 people in them (or much over 20). I could then go to Regionals, but other than that, I live too far away from the mid-west to do anything else.

I will admit that I was looking forward to this year of taking my Tie Bombers to tournaments with all the recent upgrades. I was thinking I'd do a lot better. I consider myself a good player and wanted to see. Then I started to look at playing nothing but one list for 2-3 months against nothing but U-boats and Imp Aces....and it just sounded boring. So, I started my podcast and am playing Casual now.

If a good player takes up the mantle for Tie Bombers, I think they are now worth taking in lists. I don't even mean nothing but Tie Bombers, but taking them in lists that can do well. Just one or even a Tie Shuttle. It will require someone who thinks outside the box who is good and practices with them. You don't see a lot of them, though.

It is a truth, universally acknowledged, that any ship which cannot single handedly win a Nationals or Worlds is in need of a fix.

Oh, the prejudice!

I'm usually much too sensible, but I am rather proud of that one.

The Bomber fix that I really want to see is the one that gives Tomax Bren a functioning pilot ability under tournament rules. As it is, one-shot EPTs are still one-shot EPTs on him.

Care to elaborate ?

- Tomax: Once per round, after you discard an [Pilot] Upgrade card, flip that card faceup.

- Crack Shot: When attacking a ship inside your firing arc, at the start of the "Compare Results" step, you may discard this card to cancel 1 of the defender's results.

- Tournament Rules: Discarded Cards

When a player is instructed to discard a Ship card or Upgrade card, he flips

it facedown instead. Facedown Ship and Upgrade cards are out of play and

treated as discarded. Discarded Upgrade cards remain next to the Ship card

to which they are equipped; they are not placed into the score pile unless the

ship to which they are equipped is destroyed.

Seems pretty cut and dry.

It seems pretty cut and dry for people who play tournaments and read those rules. Not everyone does and I didn't even know that tournament rule existed. No real problem but I've wondered why they worded it this way. Nothing in the rules that I know of says anything like the tournament rule of discard actually mean keep face down.

It is in the current Rules Reference, and has been since the second core set came out:

When an Upgrade card is discarded, it is flipped facedown. The card is out of play for all purposes except when determining the total squad point cost of the ship to which it was equipped. If an Upgrade card is flipped faceup by a game effect, it returns to play equipped to the same ship.