so this?

does after deploying fleets, mean at any point after, like any point during the whole game or only Right after??

Seems to me after is every or any point in time till the end of the game.

Except "After" is defined in the Rules:

Page 5, RRG, Effect Use and Timing:|


• An “after” effect occurs immediately after the specified event and cannot occur again for that instance of the event.

Immediately after

Apparently I'm supposed to gripe about the interdictor over here. *sigh*

Apparently I'm supposed to gripe about the interdictor over here. *sigh*

Come gripe over here so I can disprove your theories and hypotheses since they are really as valid as children these days stating that the world is actually flat.

OH MY GOD THEY'RE GOING TO RUIN TWO THREADS AT ONCE.

I'm equal parts impressed and disturbed, like seeing a boa constrictor that exploded from eating an alligator.

OH MY GOD THEY'RE GOING TO RUIN TWO THREADS AT ONCE.

I'm equal parts impressed and disturbed, like seeing a boa constrictor that exploded from eating an alligator.

I am liking the flexibility of the Interdictor. It is hard to quantify a value for something like G7's and Grav Shift. . .

What else do we have. . . Ohhh your Fire Lanes with G7 and Grav Shift! (can be used for Contested Outpost as well) You can use Grav Shift to adjust the Outpost towards you (same with Dangerous Territories), and then use GM's to start your self off at 0.

What we're the issues of this ships flexibility again?

I think that when playing your own fire lanes/contested outpost, it would be more useful to start your opponent's ships at 0 and move obstacles into their path or in front of the objectives (obstructing their LOS). It would be a somewhat boring game where you just get points while they desperately try to get to you stuck at speeds 2 and 1 (Konstantine, Q7s, etc...)

So it depends on who your opponents Commander is. If you are facing Rieekan you want to slow engagement till late game so that you can kill something and not lose much in response.

The Grav Well token happens before fleet deployment so they don't have to deploy near it however it will limit how they deploy and could even split them up.

Exactly. You'd be exercising control over them. Distance 3 radius is huge. Fire lanes and deployment in a corner with the G7 placed so that their same-side corner is covered, grav shift to move obstacles into their alternate route. Your ships move out in front of your tokens and between those and the obstacles before stopping. Then your opponent has to either jump the obstacles and into your firing range so that you get the first shots (but your G8 catches them by surprise and they land on an obstacle anyways), or they land on the obstacles whilst trying to get around you. All the while, you're still collecting victory tokens with your rear arcs.

Absolutely valid. I would love to talk about this more in the Interdictor thread

Fair enough. I guess that since I'm the one that told all the imperial players to come over here, it would only be right of me to follow suit when talking about the interdictor. But I'm just a filthy Rebel, so my advice didn't apply to me and I'm technically not a hypocrite

Yet

What else do we have. . . Ohhh your Fire Lanes with G7 and Grav Shift! (can be used for Contested Outpost as well) You can use Grav Shift to adjust the Outpost towards you (same with Dangerous Territories), and then use GM's to start your self off at 0.

What we're the issues of this ships flexibility again?

I think that when playing your own fire lanes/contested outpost, it would be more useful to start your opponent's ships at 0 and move obstacles into their path or in front of the objectives (obstructing their LOS). It would be a somewhat boring game where you just get points while they desperately try to get to you stuck at speeds 2 and 1 (Konstantine, Q7s, etc...)

So it depends on who your opponents Commander is. If you are facing Rieekan you want to slow engagement till late game so that you can kill something and not lose much in response.

The Grav Well token happens before fleet deployment so they don't have to deploy near it however it will limit how they deploy and could even split them up.

Exactly. You'd be exercising control over them. Distance 3 radius is huge. Fire lanes and deployment in a corner with the G7 placed so that their same-side corner is covered, grav shift to move obstacles into their alternate route. Your ships move out in front of your tokens and between those and the obstacles before stopping. Then your opponent has to either jump the obstacles and into your firing range so that you get the first shots (but your G8 catches them by surprise and they land on an obstacle anyways), or they land on the obstacles whilst trying to get around you. All the while, you're still collecting victory tokens with your rear arcs.

Absolutely valid. I would love to talk about this more in the Interdictor thread

Fair enough. I guess that since I'm the one that told all the imperial players to come over here, it would only be right of me to follow suit when talking about the interdictor. But I'm just a filthy Rebel, so my advice didn't apply to me and I'm technically not a hypocrite

Yet

What we're the issues of this ships flexibility again?

what if they decide to NOT pick your fleet ambush?

Or if you gaff grav shift+ g7 after deployment your stuck with a ship that cannot kill much of anything, it may be toughish to kill but it will not pull it's Weight damage wise and believe it or not you win games by DESTROYING your opponent

As for the Rebel player starting at speed 0=death then why do most of my rebel opponents start at speed 1?

Yes DTO MAY struggle but most rebels do fine starting slow...

Also I wouldn't use half of those loadouts to argue against the interdictor being 100+ considering that 100 and 101 are in fact 100+

For the spray thing you could instead have coruptor activate them for a similar effect at a discount of 20 points. Plus coruptor works on upto 5 squads and has more firepower

The only point you made that is really valid is that targenting scrambler is good (which I stated multiple times)

Actually you are picking theirs if they have it. If not use Grav Shift and G7 to steal their Outpost and start them at 0. So many options.

DtO likely won't care. It usually starts at 2 and being all small ships means that they can stay out of range easier than medium or large ships.

Kill much? Are you sure? It's got a good arc, can easily double arc with a navigate command, it is 8 dice in 2 attacks and maybe YOU are spoiled by too many dice with the Clonisher but those of us who don't use Ackbar, and other such boosters know the power of 4 dice. When those dice are as reliable as blue dice you can be very consistent.

Sure half of them are 100 points, oh no! What will I ever. . . Oh well? Honestly I don't care becuase the tactical advantage and the ability to utterly frustrate the Clonisher makes its worth it every day of the week.

Sure, you can use Corrupter. Go ahead, go right ahead with weaker turns and an engineering value that makes survival easier.

I am sorry clontroper5 but honestly, the fact that you disregard the basic scientific method of conducting research just makes me disregard your results. You are not showing us any info beyond your own testing which we know nothing about other than it is you playing it and you utterly disregarded the Rebels even though you are now crying how the Liberty is OP.

when did I "disregard the scientific method"

I have said multiple times this is based on testing in a controlled environment, which is by definition the scientific method which need I remind you is: consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

I have formulated hypothesis and I am testing them constantly, your statements do not denote testing the scientific method and I have adequately refuted all of your points in defense of my hypothesis. This is part of the scientific method

Sure, Imperials did great this last tournament season but the rebels are not far behind. Just because one group did better doesn't mean that they are the end all be all

The Vassal Faction tournament proved that. Rebels can and will win.

What we're the issues of this ships flexibility again?

what if they decide to NOT pick your fleet ambush?

Or if you gaff grav shift+ g7 after deployment your stuck with a ship that cannot kill much of anything, it may be toughish to kill but it will not pull it's Weight damage wise and believe it or not you win games by DESTROYING your opponent

As for the Rebel player starting at speed 0=death then why do most of my rebel opponents start at speed 1?

Yes DTO MAY struggle but most rebels do fine starting slow...

Also I wouldn't use half of those loadouts to argue against the interdictor being 100+ considering that 100 and 101 are in fact 100+

For the spray thing you could instead have coruptor activate them for a similar effect at a discount of 20 points. Plus coruptor works on upto 5 squads and has more firepower

The only point you made that is really valid is that targenting scrambler is good (which I stated multiple times)

Actually you are picking theirs if they have it. If not use Grav Shift and G7 to steal their Outpost and start them at 0. So many options.

DtO likely won't care. It usually starts at 2 and being all small ships means that they can stay out of range easier than medium or large ships.

Kill much? Are you sure? It's got a good arc, can easily double arc with a navigate command, it is 8 dice in 2 attacks and maybe YOU are spoiled by too many dice with the Clonisher but those of us who don't use Ackbar, and other such boosters know the power of 4 dice. When those dice are as reliable as blue dice you can be very consistent.

Sure half of them are 100 points, oh no! What will I ever. . . Oh well? Honestly I don't care becuase the tactical advantage and the ability to utterly frustrate the Clonisher makes its worth it every day of the week.

Sure, you can use Corrupter. Go ahead, go right ahead with weaker turns and an engineering value that makes survival easier.

I am sorry clontroper5 but honestly, the fact that you disregard the basic scientific method of conducting research just makes me disregard your results. You are not showing us any info beyond your own testing which we know nothing about other than it is you playing it and you utterly disregarded the Rebels even though you are now crying how the Liberty is OP.

when did I "disregard the scientific method"

I have said multiple times this is based on testing in a controlled environment, which is by definition the scientific method which need I remind you is: consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

I have formulated hypothesis and I am testing them constantly, your statements do not denote testing the scientific method and I have adequately refuted all of your points in defense of my hypothesis. This is part of the scientific method

Well you are throwing out your opinions like they are gospel. Sure you won a Vassal tournament, sure you created an archetype, bit that means nothing if you are going to spout your opinions as facts and only tell us your method when prompted. Not to mention that you ignored an entire faction.

Sure, Imperials did great this last tournament season but the rebels are not far behind. Just because one group did better doesn't mean that they are the end all be all

The Vassal Faction tournament proved that. Rebels can and will win.

Balance.

If you were to go 8, 8, and 2, then that places you higher than average, but likely not winning. So then we can postulate that this is a specialized fleet. We can relatively safely assume that we're going to need a different take if we want to be really competitive. And by we, I mean Imperial players and not myself.

This is why Clon was so adamant about the combat retrofit with disrupters being the better choice. It has better application to the most general form of the game—dealing damage (or in this case, reducing damage).

Also, the scenario I described above just doesn't sound like a fun game. It sounds...boring. Smart and very strategic, but boring and a total killjoy. Not saying the interdictor is boring, it will certainly present a number of scenarios that will be fun to play around. But the type of play style that will be engendered by this ship in the people who only play to win will be boring.

What we're the issues of this ships flexibility again?

what if they decide to NOT pick your fleet ambush?

Or if you gaff grav shift+ g7 after deployment your stuck with a ship that cannot kill much of anything, it may be toughish to kill but it will not pull it's Weight damage wise and believe it or not you win games by DESTROYING your opponent

As for the Rebel player starting at speed 0=death then why do most of my rebel opponents start at speed 1?

Yes DTO MAY struggle but most rebels do fine starting slow...

Also I wouldn't use half of those loadouts to argue against the interdictor being 100+ considering that 100 and 101 are in fact 100+

For the spray thing you could instead have coruptor activate them for a similar effect at a discount of 20 points. Plus coruptor works on upto 5 squads and has more firepower

The only point you made that is really valid is that targenting scrambler is good (which I stated multiple times)

Actually you are picking theirs if they have it. If not use Grav Shift and G7 to steal their Outpost and start them at 0. So many options.

DtO likely won't care. It usually starts at 2 and being all small ships means that they can stay out of range easier than medium or large ships.

Kill much? Are you sure? It's got a good arc, can easily double arc with a navigate command, it is 8 dice in 2 attacks and maybe YOU are spoiled by too many dice with the Clonisher but those of us who don't use Ackbar, and other such boosters know the power of 4 dice. When those dice are as reliable as blue dice you can be very consistent.

Sure half of them are 100 points, oh no! What will I ever. . . Oh well? Honestly I don't care becuase the tactical advantage and the ability to utterly frustrate the Clonisher makes its worth it every day of the week.

Sure, you can use Corrupter. Go ahead, go right ahead with weaker turns and an engineering value that makes survival easier.

I am sorry clontroper5 but honestly, the fact that you disregard the basic scientific method of conducting research just makes me disregard your results. You are not showing us any info beyond your own testing which we know nothing about other than it is you playing it and you utterly disregarded the Rebels even though you are now crying how the Liberty is OP.

when did I "disregard the scientific method"

I have said multiple times this is based on testing in a controlled environment, which is by definition the scientific method which need I remind you is: consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

I have formulated hypothesis and I am testing them constantly, your statements do not denote testing the scientific method and I have adequately refuted all of your points in defense of my hypothesis. This is part of the scientific method

Well you are throwing out your opinions like they are gospel. Sure you won a Vassal tournament, sure you created an archetype, bit that means nothing if you are going to spout your opinions as facts and only tell us your method when prompted. Not to mention that you ignored an entire faction.

Sure, Imperials did great this last tournament season but the rebels are not far behind. Just because one group did better doesn't mean that they are the end all be all

The Vassal Faction tournament proved that. Rebels can and will win.

I never said my thoughts were Fact

That my friend is an opinion treated as a fact.

The Interdictor has use quantifying that use though is hard. Will it do something every time? Maybe. Is there a better version via a different ships. Maybe. It is all circumstances in this game not to mention a level of experience needed to make things work.

I can't confidently state that I could run the Interdictor or Liberty amazingly yet or at all. I have no experience with them.

The Interdictor is a brand new style of ship that means a whole new depth of experience necessary to make it work. The Liberty is something similar and different from what we have seen before. It is a Nebulon-B on steroids yet almost a better speed 2 and 3 chart.

Both have their functions and each will need to be tested rigorously before we can declare anything bad.

Remember clontroper5, you are one of the leading voices of Armada, what you say on here does affect players who lurk and use you as inspiration.

Balance.

If you were to go 8, 8, and 2, then that places you higher than average, but likely not winning. So then we can postulate that this is a specialized fleet. We can relatively safely assume that we're going to need a different take if we want to be really competitive. And by we, I mean Imperial players and not myself.

This is why Clon was so adamant about the combat retrofit with disrupters being the better choice. It has better application to the most general form of the game—dealing damage (or in this case, reducing damage).

Also, the scenario I described above just doesn't sound like a fun game. It sounds...boring. Smart and very strategic, but boring and a total killjoy. Not saying the interdictor is boring, it will certainly present a number of scenarios that will be fun to play around. But the type of play style that will be engendered by this ship in the people who only play to win will be boring.

Thats what this game comes down to. Experience. You need it to win. The list is a small part of the equation.

In games like X-Wing, Magic The Gathering, etc, the list is a majority of what is needed to win.

A decent player with a good list can hold their own against a good player with a decent list.

This doesn't happen in Armada. In this game, it is all yours to lose. That is based off your experience.

While I am not overly impressed with the Interdictor, I am in a holding pattern on it. Once I get it in my hands and see how it works with the builds I like to run I will hold judgement on it. I am still very disappointed in only getting one named ship card for these, when so much more could have been done

In games like X-Wing, Magic The Gathering, etc, the list is a majority of what is needed to win.

A decent player with a good list can hold their own against a good player with a decent list.

That's just patently not true. A good player with a mediocre list will wipe the floor with a mediocre player with a good list in X-Wing.

In games like X-Wing, Magic The Gathering, etc, the list is a majority of what is needed to win.

A decent player with a good list can hold their own against a good player with a decent list.

That's just patently not true. A good player with a mediocre list will wipe the floor with a mediocre player with a good list in X-Wing.

For Armada, fleet building is a mini game. What do all these pieces of the puzzle create? That is the question. From there, it comes down to experience.

In X-Wing it is very possible for a good player with a mediocre list to wipe the floor with a mediocre player with a good list but at the same time it could flip. That game has far more variance which leads to that situation. It comes down to improper balance.

Armada is balanced so that even a bad deployment decision can lead to you losing the game. It happens. You coups also swing that back and fix the mistake.

In Armada it is yours to lose, you can't say in X-Wing since the dice are such a huge part of the game. Sometimes the dice just don't work for you in X-Wing. In Armada it happens but not as often and usually with red dice.

But the dice don't have anything to do with list building and you were explicitly saying that in X-Wing "the list is a majority of what is needed to win" not that the dice make X-Wing too swingy. That I wouldn't have argued with as that is (at least somewhat) a question of taste and personal preference.

Now, I actually find Armada to be the opposite to what you (and most on this board) are saying. From my perspective, in Armada it seems all about the list. there seem to be only a few even remotely viable ways to build ships and if you end up facing a list that happens to be good against what you brought then you have virtually no hope. I will admit, however, that my experience with Armada is very limited and so that might be... inexperience... ( )causing that impression.

But the dice don't have anything to do with list building and you were explicitly saying that in X-Wing "the list is a majority of what is needed to win" not that the dice make X-Wing too swingy. That I wouldn't have argued with as that is (at least somewhat) a question of taste and personal preference.

Now, I actually find Armada to be the opposite to what you (and most on this board) are saying. From my perspective, in Armada it seems all about the list. there seem to be only a few even remotely viable ways to build ships and if you end up facing a list that happens to be good against what you brought then you have virtually no hope. I will admit, however, that my experience with Armada is very limited and so that might be... inexperience... ( )causing that impression.

I have like 6 different Nebulon-B builds. Each could win a tournament.

Nebulon-B's which have been considered one of the weaker ships in the game, yet if played right cN talk on pretty much any list. It takes practice. Knowing what to expect and what to counter. How to counter etc.

In X-Wing you build for your dice. That is why TLT's are a thing, it is why the punisher is a thing. You build with the ship in mind.

In Armada I find that you build less around the ship and more around the commander or a concept. That I'd me though.

I expect a lack of experience may be the issue. If you can find Shmitty's data you could go over what win regionals. Though that also has a few caveats. Such as if the tournament used FFG's TOME software, etc.

Really? You would have resigned yourself to losing the squadron war? A-Wings are good but they're not THAT good.

Honestly I think it's more hats off to Ardaedhel here more than anything, by rights those TIE/In should have chewed through those A-Wings. Even with the jump on the TIE/Ins in that turn, every A-Wing should have taken 1.5 dmg in counter (as swarm would have still been active). Then in the squadron phase taken another 2 dmg on average (this time without swarm) from the TIE/In they were now engaged opposite with. 3.5 dmg of course isn't a real result (you'd obviously have a mix of 3 and 4) but still.

I think the idea that TIEs (and TIE/In) suck no matter how many or how few you take is one that will bite you in the ass. They're wicked lethal AA, especially when their potency is increased by the great Imperial synergies.

I think you are misreading something here Cap. TIE/ln is a lowercase"LN" for "line fighter", not an uppercase "i" lowercase "n" for "interceptor". He had 9 regular bog standard tie fighters, not 9 interceptors. I know that confused the heck out of me when I first started posting on the x-wing forums.

Really? You would have resigned yourself to losing the squadron war? A-Wings are good but they're not THAT good.

Honestly I think it's more hats off to Ardaedhel here more than anything, by rights those TIE/In should have chewed through those A-Wings. Even with the jump on the TIE/Ins in that turn, every A-Wing should have taken 1.5 dmg in counter (as swarm would have still been active). Then in the squadron phase taken another 2 dmg on average (this time without swarm) from the TIE/In they were now engaged opposite with. 3.5 dmg of course isn't a real result (you'd obviously have a mix of 3 and 4) but still.

I think the idea that TIEs (and TIE/In) suck no matter how many or how few you take is one that will bite you in the ass. They're wicked lethal AA, especially when their potency is increased by the great Imperial synergies.

I think you are misreading something here Cap. TIE/ln is a lowercase"LN" for "line fighter", not an uppercase "i" lowercase "n" for "interceptor". He had 9 regular bog standard tie fighters, not 9 interceptors. I know that confused the heck out of me when I first started posting on the x-wing forums.

Oh, whoops, missed that. FLore is correct, they were vanilla TIEs, not Interceptors.

|o|

, not...

{o}

Oh man a bit of a throwback, but thank you. I was sitting there like 'What?!? Surely those Interceptors still win that!'. That makes more sense, the Imperial player really needed to get the Alpha Strike off then in that instance.

Really? You would have resigned yourself to losing the squadron war? A-Wings are good but they're not THAT good.

Honestly I think it's more hats off to Ardaedhel here more than anything, by rights those TIE/In should have chewed through those A-Wings. Even with the jump on the TIE/Ins in that turn, every A-Wing should have taken 1.5 dmg in counter (as swarm would have still been active). Then in the squadron phase taken another 2 dmg on average (this time without swarm) from the TIE/In they were now engaged opposite with. 3.5 dmg of course isn't a real result (you'd obviously have a mix of 3 and 4) but still.

I think the idea that TIEs (and TIE/In) suck no matter how many or how few you take is one that will bite you in the ass. They're wicked lethal AA, especially when their potency is increased by the great Imperial synergies.

I think you are misreading something here Cap. TIE/ln is a lowercase"LN" for "line fighter", not an uppercase "i" lowercase "n" for "interceptor". He had 9 regular bog standard tie fighters, not 9 interceptors. I know that confused the heck out of me when I first started posting on the x-wing forums.

Really? You would have resigned yourself to losing the squadron war? A-Wings are good but they're not THAT good.

Honestly I think it's more hats off to Ardaedhel here more than anything, by rights those TIE/In should have chewed through those A-Wings. Even with the jump on the TIE/Ins in that turn, every A-Wing should have taken 1.5 dmg in counter (as swarm would have still been active). Then in the squadron phase taken another 2 dmg on average (this time without swarm) from the TIE/In they were now engaged opposite with. 3.5 dmg of course isn't a real result (you'd obviously have a mix of 3 and 4) but still.

I think the idea that TIEs (and TIE/In) suck no matter how many or how few you take is one that will bite you in the ass. They're wicked lethal AA, especially when their potency is increased by the great Imperial synergies.

I think you are misreading something here Cap. TIE/ln is a lowercase"LN" for "line fighter", not an uppercase "i" lowercase "n" for "interceptor". He had 9 regular bog standard tie fighters, not 9 interceptors. I know that confused the heck out of me when I first started posting on the x-wing forums.

Oh, whoops, missed that. FLore is correct, they were vanilla TIEs, not Interceptors.

|o|

, not...

{o}

Oh man a bit of a throwback, but thank you. I was sitting there like 'What?!? Surely those Interceptors still win that!'. That makes more sense, the Imperial player really needed to get the Alpha Strike off then in that instance.

I thought they with TIE/In for a while and then I noticed the shape of the I was really an l. Almost got me ^_~

I'm equal parts impressed and disturbed, like seeing a boa constrictor that exploded from eating an alligator.

Vids or it didn't happen.

Anyone else catch that the "Interdictor" title works on ANY ship activation? Including enemy activations. So that the targeting scrambler can be used against fighters the "Keyan rush" and then immediately unexhasted.

And that the MS-1 stops Intel officer?

Anyone else catch that the "Interdictor" title works on ANY ship activation? Including enemy activations. So that the targeting scrambler can be used against fighters the "Keyan rush" and then immediately unexhasted.

And that the MS-1 stops Intel officer?

I was thinking more that you have one ship in the strong arcs of two of your opponent's ships. They shoot with the first, you exhaust to disrupt that attack. They activate the second, you ready it and disrupt the second ship's string arc. 8 dice manipulated in the strong arcs. It doesn't really work like that on a demo triple tap, though it would still work on 2 of those attacks.

Anyone else catch that the "Interdictor" title works on ANY ship activation? Including enemy activations. So that the targeting scrambler can be used against fighters the "Keyan rush" and then immediately unexhasted.

And that the MS-1 stops Intel officer?

I was thinking more that you have one ship in the strong arcs of two of your opponent's ships. They shoot with the first, you exhaust to disrupt that attack. They activate the second, you ready it and disrupt the second ship's string arc. 8 dice manipulated in the strong arcs. It doesn't really work like that on a demo triple tap, though it would still work on 2 of those attacks.

My original point was that it stops that rush people have been concerned about. But I do also like your application.

Does anybody else feel that so far the breakout stars of this reveal are better for Rebels than Imperials? By a lot?

At least the MC30 had a lot of really powerful Rebel only cards, I feel like all the unique Imperial stuff here I have to think up unusual scenarios to make it good.

Sometimes I have no idea what you are talking about.

First off, Imperials just got a way to make their use of Tractor Beams extremely useful.

They are getting more synergy and they are getting new tactical capabilities. So when you say the rebels are getting all the good cards, I have no idea what you are talking about.

I am right there with you, I think that the Rebels did get much better stuff. I like the interdictor, but think you are paying to much for the option to pay more by adding stuff to it. With out adding stuff to it, it is a poor combat ship, with adding stuff it is just so expensive you now have to ask yourself is it worth the cost? I play almost exclusively the empire, but am having a very hard time building a list for the Fleet Commanders Contest. Between my play style and the ships ability's I can not find any synergy, but looking at the Rebles was able to make one that looks good in about 20 minutes.