Why should i use semi-automatic Burst ?

By Knightmare, in Rogue Trader Rules Questions

Posted at

Maxim C. Gatling said:

Forget about Full Auto for a second...

Also, forget about "Three Round Burst".

Most of the weapons in RT that have a Semi setting, it's "2". Meaning with the bonus to-hit, I'm still mathematically more likely to score by squeezing off two single shots.

If "Semi" meant "pull the trigger and 3 bullets come out" then I would understand...as it relates to real-life 3-round-burst, but like I said most DH/RT Semi rates are "2" which is...(sigh) ridiculous. The only way I'd ever use it is if I had to have the +10 bonus to have any chance to hit at all (in which case I'd probably need to flee or change my tactics in some way).

I still can't figure out why I would EVER want to use Semi unless the Semi rating was "3" or higher.

Someone please explain to me (because I'm a dullard apparently) why I shouldn't make "Semi" a half-action.

Of note, the "2" represents the extra hits, not the original. My group looked this up recently. The wording (I don't have my book, so this is approximate from memory) is something like

"...inflicts a number of additional hits up to the ROF rating." Where the important word is 'additional'. So a semi ROF of "2" is actually 1+2 = 3 bullets.

Posted at

dvang said:

Of note, the "2" represents the extra hits, not the original. My group looked this up recently. The wording (I don't have my book, so this is approximate from memory) is something like

"...inflicts a number of additional hits up to the ROF rating." Where the important word is 'additional'. So a semi ROF of "2" is actually 1+2 = 3 bullets.

Good catch! I missed that. The exact quote in the Semi-Auto Burst section is: "The number of extra hits scored in this manner cannot exceed the weapon's semi-automatic rate of fire."

So a rating of 2 means it really is a 3 round burst. Hitting by 20+ nets you two hits, by 40+ nets you three. Nice! My groups current arch-militant usually fires at a total target number of 82 if he spends a half action aiming, so getting a 42 or less and scoring three hits is certainly doable.

Posted at

Ack, just realized that semi is a full action, so no more aiming and firing a burst in the same round. Heh.

Posted at

dvang said:

Of note, the "2" represents the extra hits, not the original. My group looked this up recently. The wording (I don't have my book, so this is approximate from memory) is something like

"...inflicts a number of additional hits up to the ROF rating." Where the important word is 'additional'. So a semi ROF of "2" is actually 1+2 = 3 bullets.

Actually, no, this is an incorrect interpretation. The RoF listed is the number of rounds being fired; see Weapon Characteristics on page 114 of RT for the full description. What is meant, and this was fixed in DH with its errata, is that you score additional hits beyond the first, up to a maximum total of hits equal to the number of rounds fired.

-=Brother Praetus=-

Posted at

Brother Praetus said:

dvang said:

Of note, the "2" represents the extra hits, not the original. My group looked this up recently. The wording (I don't have my book, so this is approximate from memory) is something like

"...inflicts a number of additional hits up to the ROF rating." Where the important word is 'additional'. So a semi ROF of "2" is actually 1+2 = 3 bullets.

Actually, no, this is an incorrect interpretation. The RoF listed is the number of rounds being fired; see Weapon Characteristics on page 114 of RT for the full description. What is meant, and this was fixed in DH with its errata, is that you score additional hits beyond the first, up to a maximum total of hits equal to the number of rounds fired.

-=Brother Praetus=-

Which is how we played it before, until someone in the group mentioned the rule phrasing that I pointed out. However, let's look at it. I see nothing in the DH errata that says anything about ROF nor semi-auto firing, other than an entry regarding combining Scatter successes and semi-/full auto successes.

That leaves us with 2 contradicting entries in the rulebook:

1) Weapon attributes: ROF says that the value is the number of bullets fired.

2) Semi-auto says that the number of extra hits cannot exceed the ROF of the weapon, which implies that the number of extra hits *can* equal the ROF of the weapon.

So, either the ROF for semi/full auto is the number of bullets total...or the number of extra bullets (ie, beyond 1), depending on which rule entry you use. Either is likely to be slightly mis-worded. They could have meant for ROF that it is the number of additional bullets fired (and they didn't count the first bullet). Or, they meant (for #2) that the number of hits total (not just extra) cannot exceed the ROF. I find both interpretations, and miswordings, quite plausible.

Posted at

I'm okay with letting 1 more shot possibly come through as a hit, as it benefits baddies as much as players, and makes Semi-Auto burst a little more attractive. So that is the way I'll rule it in my game. Obviously we are free to just disagree and you can run it how you like in your game.

Posted at

dvang said:

Which is how we played it before, until someone in the group mentioned the rule phrasing that I pointed out. However, let's look at it. I see nothing in the DH errata that says anything about ROF nor semi-auto firing, other than an entry regarding combining Scatter successes and semi-/full auto successes.

That leaves us with 2 contradicting entries in the rulebook:

1) Weapon attributes: ROF says that the value is the number of bullets fired.

2) Semi-auto says that the number of extra hits cannot exceed the ROF of the weapon, which implies that the number of extra hits *can* equal the ROF of the weapon.

So, either the ROF for semi/full auto is the number of bullets total...or the number of extra bullets (ie, beyond 1), depending on which rule entry you use. Either is likely to be slightly mis-worded. They could have meant for ROF that it is the number of additional bullets fired (and they didn't count the first bullet). Or, they meant (for #2) that the number of hits total (not just extra) cannot exceed the ROF. I find both interpretations, and miswordings, quite plausible.

When in doubt, ask the people who wrote the game. Which actually, I think is what I had seen before.

"The weapon's total number of hits cannot exceed the Rate of Fire. This includes the initial hit. Hope this helps!"

Sam Stewart
Associate RPG Designer
Fantasy Flight Games

Thanks to Mr. Stewart for what amounted to about a 5 minute turn around on this. gran_risa.gif Fast, fast fast... Me tinks you'se be a red 'un, Sam. Of course, there is one exception. The Storm quality, because its RoF does not account for both barrels in the number given, and both barrels fire simultaneously. Copied from here .

"The storm bolter gets two hits per success. So on Semi-auto it puts out four shots (semi-auto 2 = 4 hits) if you get the initial success and at
least two additional degrees of success. (Semi-auto needing 2 successes for subsequent hits). On full auto, if you get four successes, you'll get 8 hits.

Ammo use should take this into account."

Thanks!

Sam Stewart

-=Brother Praetus=-

Posted at

Which makes sense. It was good to know that I was doing it right all along, where ROF = total # of bullets/hits possible (not counting the SB). Note for everyone in the future about the miswording in the semi-auto rules. Replace the word "extra" with the word "total", so that the "total hits cannot exceed the ROF of the weapon".