Adapt: The first time your opponent plays a Command card each round, choose 1 Spy or Trooper . That figure becomes Hidden.

This is similar to the language on the Elite Stormtrooper card:

Last Stand : When you are defeated, choose another figure in your group. That figure becomes Focused.

Last Stand is a mandatory trigger, meaning that you are not allowed to let your opponent miss it. If you purposely let your opponent miss it, you are cheating by not maintaining correct game state.

There's no "may" and no option to choose 0 figures. This, to me, suggests the trigger is mandatory and both players hold the responsibility to keep game state correct. This means I am forced to remind my opponent of this trigger.

Let's say I forget about Adapt, or a Last Stand trigger and my opponent doesn't remind me (maybe they forgot too?). Since both parties share responsibility, is the opponent obligated to attempt to rewind if possible to apply the trigger and correct game state?

Should I call a judge over and they would potentially give both players warnings and then just say continue from where you are ignoring the missed trigger?

If the opponent admits to knowing I missed the trigger, do they get a more severe warning, or a game loss?

I expect most players probably treat these like "may" triggers and just forget about it. But that isn't really what you're supposed to do.

Anyone have thoughts on this topic?

You're right. There is no cost to the ability that would make triggering it optional, and there is no may which would make the effect optional. So, not doing it is against the rules.

Whether and how to handle that in the organized play though I don't know.

From the tournament rules:

MISSED OPPORTUNITIES Players are expected to follow the game's rules, remembering to perform actions and use card effects when indicated. If a player forgets to use an effect during the timing specified by that effect, he or she cannot retroactively use it without the consent of his or her opponent. Players are expected to act with respect and not intentionally distract or rush an opponent with the intent of forcing a missed opportunity.

So both of you have the opportunity to agree on something that seems fair.

Noticing a mandatory effect which is beneficial for your opponent and not telling him or her is bad sportsmanship or cheating. Of course you hardly have a proof if that is the case.

If the game already went on and dice were rolled, hidden information given (by cards being played e.g,) or decisions made based on the incorrect game state it is not so easy or impossible to just rewind.

If I were judge I would lay more responsibility on the controller of the card because he or she has it right in front of him or her. So I would say sorry, bad luck for you.

From what I can read out of the tournament rules it is up to the judge how to solve the problem if both players can't agree on something. If the opponent admits to purposely ignoring the effect the next question based on tournament tier would be can he or she also be considered to have knowledge of his or her responsibility to remind you of the effect.

It's very annoying that these situations are set up where you're basically "penalized" for following the rules and reminding your opponent of their mandatory effects.

Meanwhile, someone who is cheating (or oblivious) has an advantage in the same situation.

It's especially so, knowing that almost no one is going to remind you (whether they remember or not) of things like Adapt, even at the highest levels of competitive play.

It's very annoying that these situations are set up where you're basically "penalized" for following the rules and reminding your opponent of their mandatory effects.

Meanwhile, someone who is cheating (or oblivious) has an advantage in the same situation.

It's especially so, knowing that almost no one is going to remind you (whether they remember or not) of things like Adapt, even at the highest levels of competitive play.

Well good sportsmanship comes at a prize. But if I win I want to win because I was the better player and not because I was the most clever one to bend the tournament rules. I have no tournament experience with Imperial Assault but in the Star Wars LCG I have been having mostly good experiences in this regard.

I don't think that helping my opponent win is good sportsmanship.

If your opponent reminds you of something, that's awesome. But if he doesn't that's not bad sportsmanship.

That's like using 3 stormtroopers and forgetting to attack with the last one. It's a missed opportunity.

The onus is on the controller to know his cards.

It's not up to the opponent to be 100% familiar with the enemy units. Executor on RGC, Nimble on Jyn and Slippery on Smugglers are other examples. And arguably these ones have much bigger impacts than a focus or hide token.

Would it be bad sportsmanship to not give helpful advice? Would be it bad sportsmanship to not tell the opponent he's about to make a big mistake?

It's a strategic game. You win when opponents make mistakes and miss opportunities. You win when you punish those mistakes.

The cards state that the owner "chooses" a figure. It's not up to the opponent to choose or to remind.

It's nice if your opponent reminds you, but it's not cheating if they don't.

If you kill your opponent's elite stormtrooper, and he does not focus another stormtrooper in the group, and you know this and do not tell him, then you are cheating.

When an elite stormtrooper dies, the controller must choose another figure in the group to focus it. There is no option to do it or not. That's just the way the game works. Elite stormtrooper dies, other trooper gets focused.

If you knowingly violate this rule, you are cheating. That's what being mandatory means.

Here's a different situation:

Let's say your opponent kills a group of yours, but doesn't score the points. Do you tell him to score the points? If you don't, play the rest of the game, and don't tell him when he actually would have won, you are cheating.

That's way less likely to happen, but it is similar in that you're not following a mandatory rule in the game.

At the highest levels of play (which is really what this topic is about), both players are expected to have a full understanding of the rules.

In other competitive games I've played, breaking the rules unintentionally can mean a warning for BOTH players. Intentionally means a game loss.

Its commmon courtesy, but at the end of the day, you cannot punish someone for not remembering what an opponent's card(s) do and ESPECIALLY if your opponent forgets to tell you something you forgot. In the end, thats you telling your opponent how to play and THAT can be considered more cheating than not. Bc what happens if you give your opponent bad advice because you thought his card did A and it really did B and he loses bc of that? Now youve crossed a boundary nobody wants to deal with. Best thing is to stay quite and let your opponent play his cards. You can correct them when a mistake is done, but thats all that should be required. Anything else is generous, but then can lead you to trouble if something happened that shouldnt have, due to that advice.

~D

If you kill your opponent's elite stormtrooper, and he does not focus another stormtrooper in the group, and you know this and do not tell him, then you are cheating.

When an elite stormtrooper dies, the controller must choose another figure in the group to focus it. There is no option to do it or not. That's just the way the game works. Elite stormtrooper dies, other trooper gets focused.

That's just your interpretation and I don't agree.

I agree that it's not an optional rule. But I disagree that not doing it is cheating. It's just like forgetting to do any other rule. It's simply a mistake.

It's impossible to prove that the opponent noticed it but didn't say anything.

I've had plenty of situations where my opponent has forgotten his figure was bleeding, and I forgot that I applied the bleed. If we've moved on to the next activation, it's too late. I don't automatically assume he cheated, especially because I missed it too. We simply both forgot.

A rule like this is simply unenforceable. There's no way to show that you forgot about focus but your opponent remembered but didn't say anything. You just have to apply some common sense and good sportsmanship and recognize it for what it is. A mistake.

Technically we're not allowed to place damage tokens on the deployment card (or on the damage tracking cards that are part of the latest tournament kit) since it specifically states that damage tokens must be placed next to the figures.

Yet we don't go around calling everyone a cheater for making the game board a bit clearer/cleaner or using officially FFG supplied damage counters.

Here's another example, retrieved mission tokens are supposed to be placed "ON THE FIGURE'S BASE". But mission tokens are as big as bases so it's technically impossible. Sometimes we just have to apply some common sense to the rules. Sometimes the wording is just a little bit unclear.

They could go round sticking the word "MAY" everywhere but you have to draw the line somewhere.

It's far more likely that the omission of the word "MAY" is an oversight or a typo, and not significant enough to warrant an errata.

For example Murne's ability to give hidden tokens does say "MAY".

There's no reason those two abilities should read differently. There's lots of little quirks like that in the wording.

In other games and sports you usually can't be punished for an opponents mistake. This situation is like that. In fact in some sports, reminding them of their mistake would be considered coaching.

I agree that it is unenforceable, but it is the rule, and you're not allowed to purposefully ignore mandatory triggers. Doing so is cheating. Legitimately forgetting is not cheating, but a mistake on both players' parts.

I even sent in a rules query about this:

Question:

In a competitive tournament setting, am I required to remind my opponent about certain abilities that the cards do not suggest are optional. For example, the Trandoshan Hunters and IG88 have the Relentless ability that says when you declare an attack on a target within 3 spaces, the target takes 1 strain. If the opponent declares an attack and does not mention the relentless ability, am I forced to remind him according to the rules since it is not optional. Same question for Royal Guards Vengeance ability. If the answer is no for these, are there any abilities where I am required to remind the opponent?

Answer:

The answer is yes, both players are responsible for maintaining the game state. Mandatory triggers are both players responsibility to recognize, both positive and negative.

But if it's unenforceable then what's the point?

Placing a mission token "On the figure's base" is also unenforceable.

While the word of the law says it's cheating, you literally cannot ever punish an opponent for it. So why does it exist at all? It can't be classed as cheating if you can never prove it.

What you're saying is that you want to punish both players if they both forget to apply a focus token or strain.

That's simply crazy. Who's even going to punish them? Are you going to enforce umpires to watch every match?

What about if both players count up the damage and both agree that it's 5 but really it's 4 because they both suck at counting. They're both now cheating and should be punished?

I still think that the wording of Last Stand and Adept are just poorly written since Murne's Field Report works almost exactly the same way, and does say "may". Like I said before, it's simply unfeasible for them to go back and insert the word "may" in 50 different places they may have missed originally.

The answer to your question says it's both players responsibility. Not that they are both cheating and should be punished.

But if it's unenforceable then what's the point?

Placing a mission token "On the figure's base" is also unenforceable.

While the word of the law says it's cheating, you literally cannot ever punish an opponent for it. So why does it exist at all? It can't be classed as cheating if you can never prove it.

What you are saying basically translates to if I find a way to cheat that can't be proven I do not cheat. That's neat!

(Bleeding isn't a player ability, it is a core/mission rule.)

I agree that it is a mandatory trigger and as such both players are responsible and it should be corrected when able.

It is a grey area how and when to correct mistakes and the correction should not in itself give an unfair advantage. For instance, realising an opportunity to make one of your characters Hidden from Blaise has been missed, don't toss it on the figure your opponent just declared an attack on or the on the figure you were just about to attack with (even if that was the figure you would otherwise have Hidden).

I played with Blaise for the first time in a tournament this past weekend. Luckily, in a sense, my first opponent was also playing Blaise. I don't think it is a coincidence that this subject is brought up in relation to him, as his ability is one that triggers out of context of sorts. Basically it is an extra thing to remember while in the middle of doing something else involving a command card. Anyway, we both had a vested interest in using Blaise and getting into the habbit of remembering his special ability - which we of course forgot a couple of times - and corrected the game state a few times despite being an activation or two later than when the first command card had been played.

But if it's unenforceable then what's the point?

Placing a mission token "On the figure's base" is also unenforceable.

While the word of the law says it's cheating, you literally cannot ever punish an opponent for it. So why does it exist at all? It can't be classed as cheating if you can never prove it.

What you are saying basically translates to if I find a way to cheat that can't be proven I do not cheat. That's neat!

That's not exactly true.

What I'm saying is that it's impossible to punish someone for something that can't be proven.

And what's worse, OP was suggesting that both players be punished for cheating when they simply forgot.

I'm not advocating cheating. I'm just saying that a more lenient and common sense interpretation of the rules is better for everyone.

There's a difference between bad sportsmanship and cheating too.

Here's an interesting example from a Regionals match last weekend.

My opponent had Luke standing next to my RGC. He did a saber strike and then performed a shot at the RGC. I was so excited that he didn't move away from me because I was holding Flurry of Blades and I had initiative next turn. I was already thinking about the next turn. I didn't even realize that he shouldn't have attacked twice until I got home later that evening.

On one hand, it as pretty horrible cheating to attack twice. On the other hand I didn't pick up on it at the time, and on the third hand, his lack of movement allowed me to kill Luke with 3 attacks the following turn. I didn't even need all 3 attacks to kill Luke, and would have probably killed him anyway, but that doesn't matter.

So who cheated? He attacked twice for clear advantage, and I didn't notice which was to my benefit next turn.

We can't take it back because neither of us noticed till hours later.

We can't nullify the result or replay it since the tournament is over.

Another situation in a different game happened when my opponent declared the use of Reinforcements, he went and placed the figure before I even had a chance to say anything. I used Comm Disruption, to stop Reinforcements and he took his figure back off the board, and started his first activation. But in the confusion, and him subsequently starting his first activation rather quickly, I forgot to play my Reinforcements.

When I asked a minute later he said no.

Now, that's fair enough but it just shows how easy it can be to make mistakes, especially when someone already has a plan in their head and goes to carry it out very quickly. That's why I usually like to verbalize everything I'm doing (eg, "and now for my second action....").

What I'm trying to say is that 95% of the time, **** like that is just an accident. A mistake. It happens and it's not really fair to somehow magically punish one or both players for a honest mistake.

Even more so when you simply can't prove malicious intent.

What I'm trying to say is that 95% of the time, **** like that is just an accident. A mistake. It happens and it's not really fair to somehow magically punish one or both players for a honest mistake.

Even more so when you simply can't prove malicious intent.

Yes, but rules still have to be in place so that it tells us what happens if someone does this. Intentionally or Otherwise.

But if it's unenforceable then what's the point?

Placing a mission token "On the figure's base" is also unenforceable.

While the word of the law says it's cheating, you literally cannot ever punish an opponent for it. So why does it exist at all? It can't be classed as cheating if you can never prove it.

What you are saying basically translates to if I find a way to cheat that can't be proven I do not cheat. That's neat!

That's not exactly true.

What I'm saying is that it's impossible to punish someone for something that can't be proven.

And what's worse, OP was suggesting that both players be punished for cheating when they simply forgot.

I'm not advocating cheating. I'm just saying that a more lenient and common sense interpretation of the rules is better for everyone.

There's a difference between bad sportsmanship and cheating too.

Here's an interesting example from a Regionals match last weekend.

My opponent had Luke standing next to my RGC. He did a saber strike and then performed a shot at the RGC. I was so excited that he didn't move away from me because I was holding Flurry of Blades and I had initiative next turn. I was already thinking about the next turn. I didn't even realize that he shouldn't have attacked twice until I got home later that evening.

On one hand, it as pretty horrible cheating to attack twice. On the other hand I didn't pick up on it at the time, and on the third hand, his lack of movement allowed me to kill Luke with 3 attacks the following turn. I didn't even need all 3 attacks to kill Luke, and would have probably killed him anyway, but that doesn't matter.

So who cheated? He attacked twice for clear advantage, and I didn't notice which was to my benefit next turn.

We can't take it back because neither of us noticed till hours later.

We can't nullify the result or replay it since the tournament is over.

Another situation in a different game happened when my opponent declared the use of Reinforcements, he went and placed the figure before I even had a chance to say anything. I used Comm Disruption, to stop Reinforcements and he took his figure back off the board, and started his first activation. But in the confusion, and him subsequently starting his first activation rather quickly, I forgot to play my Reinforcements.

When I asked a minute later he said no.

Now, that's fair enough but it just shows how easy it can be to make mistakes, especially when someone already has a plan in their head and goes to carry it out very quickly. That's why I usually like to verbalize everything I'm doing (eg, "and now for my second action....").

What I'm trying to say is that 95% of the time, **** like that is just an accident. A mistake. It happens and it's not really fair to somehow magically punish one or both players for a honest mistake.

Even more so when you simply can't prove malicious intent.

In your Luke/RGC example, you both broke the rules. Obviously if a judge or someone saw it eariler, you could have tried to rewind game state. Potentially you would both get a warning at a high end event.

In the situation with Reinforcements, arguably the opponent was breaking the rules by using fast play to try to skip your chance to react. By not saying "Do you have any start of round effects?" and continuing play, he is skipping your opportunity to make a move, which is explicitly against the tournament rules.

If I were you, I would have called the judge over in this scenario and argued my case for letting me play Reinforcements.

Even if you unintentionally break the rules, you still broke the rules. At the highest level of play, that is grounds for warnings/game loss. The intent of giving warnings to players that do these things is that if you accumulate enough, you get ejected. Normally, making random mistakes that you and your opponent can't fix together won't be enough to get a legitimate player in trouble. For someone that is abusing the system though, that should be enough to trigger some flags that they're causing trouble.

None of this negates the objective fact that if you allow mandatory triggers to pass without them occurring, you are breaking the rules.

If you think it's okay to break the rules to your advantage by doing things like not telling your opponent to focus his elite stormtrooper or hide a unit with Adapt, well, I guess that's that.

But if it's unenforceable then what's the point?

Placing a mission token "On the figure's base" is also unenforceable.

While the word of the law says it's cheating, you literally cannot ever punish an opponent for it. So why does it exist at all? It can't be classed as cheating if you can never prove it.

What you are saying basically translates to if I find a way to cheat that can't be proven I do not cheat. That's neat!

That's not exactly true.

What I'm saying is that it's impossible to punish someone for something that can't be proven.

And what's worse, OP was suggesting that both players be punished for cheating when they simply forgot.

I'm not advocating cheating. I'm just saying that a more lenient and common sense interpretation of the rules is better for everyone.

There's a difference between bad sportsmanship and cheating too.

Here's an interesting example from a Regionals match last weekend.

My opponent had Luke standing next to my RGC. He did a saber strike and then performed a shot at the RGC. I was so excited that he didn't move away from me because I was holding Flurry of Blades and I had initiative next turn. I was already thinking about the next turn. I didn't even realize that he shouldn't have attacked twice until I got home later that evening.

On one hand, it as pretty horrible cheating to attack twice. On the other hand I didn't pick up on it at the time, and on the third hand, his lack of movement allowed me to kill Luke with 3 attacks the following turn. I didn't even need all 3 attacks to kill Luke, and would have probably killed him anyway, but that doesn't matter.

So who cheated? He attacked twice for clear advantage, and I didn't notice which was to my benefit next turn.

We can't take it back because neither of us noticed till hours later.

We can't nullify the result or replay it since the tournament is over.

Another situation in a different game happened when my opponent declared the use of Reinforcements, he went and placed the figure before I even had a chance to say anything. I used Comm Disruption, to stop Reinforcements and he took his figure back off the board, and started his first activation. But in the confusion, and him subsequently starting his first activation rather quickly, I forgot to play my Reinforcements.

When I asked a minute later he said no.

Now, that's fair enough but it just shows how easy it can be to make mistakes, especially when someone already has a plan in their head and goes to carry it out very quickly. That's why I usually like to verbalize everything I'm doing (eg, "and now for my second action....").

What I'm trying to say is that 95% of the time, **** like that is just an accident. A mistake. It happens and it's not really fair to somehow magically punish one or both players for a honest mistake.

Even more so when you simply can't prove malicious intent.

In your Luke/RGC example, you both broke the rules. Obviously if a judge or someone saw it eariler, you could have tried to rewind game state. Potentially you would both get a warning at a high end event.

In the situation with Reinforcements, arguably the opponent was breaking the rules by using fast play to try to skip your chance to react. By not saying "Do you have any start of round effects?" and continuing play, he is skipping your opportunity to make a move, which is explicitly against the tournament rules.

If I were you, I would have called the judge over in this scenario and argued my case for letting me play Reinforcements.

Even if you unintentionally break the rules, you still broke the rules. At the highest level of play, that is grounds for warnings/game loss. The intent of giving warnings to players that do these things is that if you accumulate enough, you get ejected. Normally, making random mistakes that you and your opponent can't fix together won't be enough to get a legitimate player in trouble. For someone that is abusing the system though, that should be enough to trigger some flags that they're causing trouble.

None of this negates the objective fact that if you allow mandatory triggers to pass without them occurring, you are breaking the rules.

If you think it's okay to break the rules to your advantage by doing things like not telling your opponent to focus his elite stormtrooper or hide a unit with Adapt, well, I guess that's that.

No one is arguing that it's not against the rules.

What I'm saying is that it's not enforceable without a dedicated judge watching every match. And even if you did have a judge watching, you still can never prove it was intentional.

If you had a dedicated judge then you can warn players and rewind/fix the mistake, but you can't punish them.

And what happens if the judge misses something? It does happen. I play tournament 8 ball and at some levels of play there's even two judges. Hell, most sports have multiple umpires.

Again (I don't understand why I have to mention this for the 3rd time), I'm not advocating cheating. I'm just saying that if you can't prove something, it's unfair to punish someone for it. Which, again, brings us back to common sense and wording.

If the rules were worded that it's the owners responsibility to apply the beneficial conditions we wouldn't even be having this discussion. Which I said at the start of all this, including the word "may" is enough to stop this whole topic. Especially when other similar cards are worded that way.

I'm not sure why everyone is so hell bent on classifying mistakes as malicious cheating.

It's a far more elegant solution to fix some inconsistencies in wording than to start accusing people of cheating via unenforceable rules.

I already pointed out plenty of other times the rules are poorly worded, unenforceable or literally impossible. How come that doesn't matter but forgetting a focus does?

It is perfectly fair to punish someone for breaking the rules at a high level of competitive play, regardless of their intention in doing so. Players can call judges over at any time there's a problem.

it's great that you think they should change the wording on the rules to make the rule different. But that's not the way it is right now. I'd love it if these abilities said "may". But they don't, and I asked the game designer, and he said they're mandatory.

What more do you want?

It seems like you're advocating ignoring mandatory triggers for your opponent if they're beneficial to him. Maybe I'm just misreading your posts though.

I'm not sure why you think anyone is classifying mistakes as malicious. Mistakes are breaking the rules though, and if the players can't agree on what to do about mistakes then there should be potential consequences. Otherwise, you're inviting rampant cheating.

Can you imagine somehow who conveniently "forgets" all of the rules at convenient times? Would you really say "Well, I can't prove he's cheating, so I guess breaking those rules is fine." Like, are you okay with someone being able to ignore bleed/stun, always pretend they made range, or any number of other things unless you call them out on it?

Your comments about other rules don't have anything to do with game state, how the game is actually played, or event structure, so they're kind of irrelevant.

From a TO's point of view:

The whole idea of mandatory triggers on deployment cards is kind of absurd. I absolutely expect any player in a sanctioned tournament to know every rule of every figure he plays. I just don't feel good about the fact, that FFG apparently expects everyone to know the rules of figures they don't play themselves.

The only ways to judge a situation, where a mandatory rule wasn't used, would be to rewind the game (most often not possible), to restart the game (on tournaments impossible due to time restrictions), to ignore the mistake and go on playing (unfair for at least one player), or to stop the game and disqualify someone (noone want's that).

For a TO this is a very inconvenient situation. No matter what I decide, it feels wrong.

If everyone was responsible for his own rules only, enforcing the rules would be easier:

- You forgot one of your own rules, that would have been good for you: Sorry, bad luck, go on with the game.

- You forgot one of your own rules, that would have been bad for you: You cheated, you'll be punished (somewhere in between a warning and a disqualification).

Therefore, from a TO's point of view, I would prefer a change in the tournament rules: "Everyone is responsible for his own rules only."

The bottom line is this

Breaking a rule isn't automatically cheating.

Cheating requires intent.

A mistake doesn't

Cheating is punishable

A mistake is not

To punish someone for cheating you need to prove intent

A repeated mistake after warnings have been given, can be seen as intent and thus cheating.

I hate making comparisons like this, but it's basically the difference between arson and forgetting you left the stove on. Both can burn your house down, both have consequences but only one of them is intentional and only one of them is punishable/illegal.

At the end of the day, you still haven't answered how you can punish someone without proof. That's a horrible and dangerous precedent.

We're not talking about a situation where one player forgets and the other remembers.... that's easily solvable with a discussion or a judge. We're talking about situations where mistakes are made and not noticed by either player at the time.

I'm not advocating cheating (I've said that 4 times now). I'm just saying there's no possible way to prove if forgetting a mandatory trigger is a honest mistake or cheating. That's why both players should pay attention, and that's why the onus should be on the player who benefits from that rule to remember it.

Proof = both players broke the rules.

You get punished for breaking the rules.

Factoring intent into the rules is a dangerous precedent because of how easy it is to lie about that.

By not punishing people who break the rules, you're letting cheaters easily have their way.

Obviously at different levels of competitive play, you would treat these breaches of the rules differently. It also matters how much time has passed.

Still, if someone breaks the rules, they shouldn't be able to get away with it by saying "I didn't mean to." Too bad that doesn't work all the time for speeding tickets and such, huh?

The whole point of this discussion from my perspective:

If I'm playing Blaise and both players miss the trigger, if only a short amount of stuff has happened since then, I want to reasonably be able to fix it without the other player saying "too bad".

Why? Because it was mandatory, and the game requires that trigger occurred.

If the other player doesn't want to let me do that, I want to call the judge over and see what he says, and potentially give both of us warnings.

Why? Because that way if this player is intentionally breaking the rules, he is more likely to be caught.

Because let's face it, if you don't require both players to take responsibility for mandatory triggers, then any malicious player can easily get away with pretending triggers for his opponent don't exist.

I get that you don't think there should be mandatory triggers. But they're there, and this is how they work.

But if you rewind things, isn't it cheating on your end? for example you get to see what opponent is planning to attack, and then remember that you could hide the figure because of adapt and demand you can do so. What is more, if opponent refuses to do so, you'd ask for warning for both players - why should he pay for your mistakes? Even worse, in a bad game situation or for any personal reasons you forget some mandatory trigger again and if you are not 'reminded' you can ask judge to fail both players. There can be some extreme for both sides.

That's why I totally agree with that you are responsible for your own cards/figures/whatever you play with. IMO rewinding the game is the worse of two evils here.

If it had gone far enough that information was revealed changing what I would do, I wouldn't bother bringing it up as that is unreasonable.

It's his mistake too, though, for not following the mandatory rules of the game.

If I have to play reminding players to do their mandatory effects, I would hope to get similar courtesy in return. Though obviously like multiple people have stated in this thread, they don't think they should have to remind the opponent of mandatory triggers so they won't do it because they say it isn't their responsibility even though it is the rules. Then it has to fall to calling the judge over.

Though obviously like multiple people have stated in this thread, they don't think they should have to remind the opponent of mandatory triggers so they won't do it because they say it isn't their responsibility even though it is the rules. Then it has to fall to calling the judge over.

"Hey Judge,

My opponent didn't remind me to put down my focus token, which I forgot. Can you please punish him for cheating?"

Yeah, I'm sure that will go down well.