Adapting Warhammer 30k to DH2e

By LithiumBlossom, in Dark Heresy General Discussion

Posted at

​

I've been thinking about how to run Horus Heresy using the Warhammer 40k systems. Deathwatch is designed for Space Marines but is a little outdated now and lacks some flexibility when it comes to character building. Therefore I'd draw upon Black Crusade and Dark Heresy 2e to do it.

1) Character generation would roughly follow the Dark Heresy 2e template. The main thing used from Deathwatch would be Demeanours. Characters would have 100 points to spend on Characteristics which start at 30 base (or 25 if a - characteristic or 35 if a +)

2) First element would be replacing the Homeworld choice with a L egion. This would essentially be the same - 2 stats to boost an one to lower, starting Fate and Wounds, and a starting aptitude. I'd even consider every Legion having a minor special rule as well, eg. World Eaters gain the Brutal Charge (2) trait. This would be the hardest section to do as it would essentially require starting from scratch.

3) Standard background would be using the Space Marine starting template from Black Crusade. These rules are a bit more streamlined and match the most recent standard of the rules. Only major change to this stage would be removing the Forbidden Lore (Horus Heresy and the Long War) skill from starting skills. I would probably also grant players a choice of Weapon Skill or Ballistic Skill aptitude at this stage.

4) Final stage would essentially be using the unmodified Role choice. This feels broad enough and gives players freedom of choice.

5) Equipment choices would be taken from the Black Crusade or Deathwatch errata lists. Influence would be used.

6)Power Armour however could be selected from the list in Deathwatch: Rites of Battle, any armour between MkII and MkVI. No armour history as they would only be 200 years old at maximum and are less likely to be passed on.

7) Regular Dark Heresy character generation can be used for anyone else, eg, Rememberancers, Adepts, Astropaths and Iterators.

8) Everyone gets 1000xp to spend.

9) All combat rules, skill lists and Talents use Dark Heresy 2e. This includes the use of Aptitudes. Hordes from Black Crusade and Formations from Only War are pretty much essential.

I would appreciate some feedback. I'd also consider trying my hand at making some Legion Templates but I'm wondering what special rules would be appropriate and balanced.​

Posted at
You don’t ask for much do you? :D


Well the most obvious thing to take note of is that NO ONE is going to want to play a human under your base guideline, they just nerfed bro?


In a more serious tone: Seriously Space Marines start out with a higher baseline; get 40 more points in customization than non-Marines; have Unnatural Strength and Toughness (if not Subskin and Cranial Armor); get better starting gear; have no Role Restrictions; and get the same starting 1000 experience as everyone else.


Sorry but first rule of balancing is that there should be give and takes, here there are no takes to Space Marines.


New Heresy is not built for Space Marines and normal humans (even extraordinary ones) to co-exist as Players, that’s why such thing are limited to the temporary Reinforcement Characters.


If your intent is to use New Heresy either go Full Marine or don’t bother because any human Player is going start Behind and remain so for the whole campaign.


…Besides 30k is particularly all about the SPESS MAHRENS anyways…
Posted at

It depends on what you're going to play as a campaign, but I'd suggest for 30k, the best plan is playing essentially Only War with Space Marines - the players represent a squad of Astartes - probably from the same legion, or at least from a previously agreed 'shattered legions' force. I think it'll feel less 'cluttered' as a game if the players agree to be from a specific legion - making it like the 'regiment choice' in only war.

The main thing used from Deathwatch would be Demeanours.

First element would be replacing the Homeworld choice with a L egion. This would essentially be the same - 2 stats to boost an one to lower, starting Fate and Wounds, and a starting aptitude. I'd even consider every Legion having a minor special rule as well, eg. World Eaters gain the Brutal Charge (2) trait. This would be the hardest section to do as it would essentially require starting from scratch.

The more special rules you want to throw in, the more complex things will be to keep track of. Simple is good. Also, the party are going to want to vary their default armament - a heavy weapons guy, for example.

At the same time, just the generic 'chaos marine' character should work fine for pretty much any legion; there's no need to have the starting stats be different. If someone wants to make a frenzied bezerker, then use your 100 points on characteristics and 1000xp to buy +10 WS and Frenzy . World Eater, done.

If I had to pick three stats (strong/strong/weak) for each legion, I'd probably suggest:

Dark Angels +WS, +Int, -Fel

Space Wolves +WS, +Per, -Int

Blood Angels +WS, +Ag, -Wp

Iron Hands +T, +Int, -Fel

Raven Guard +Ag, +Per, -T

White Scars +WS, +Ag, -Wp

Salamanders +T, +Wp, -Ag

Ultramarines +Fel, +Int, -WS

Imperial Fists +T, +Int, -Fel,

Sons Of Horus +WS, +Fel, -Wp

Emperor's Children +WS, +Int, -Wp

Word Bearers +Fel, +Wp, -BS

World Eaters +WS, +S, -Int

Iron Warriors +T, +Int, -Fel

Night Lords +Ag, +Int, -Fel

Death Guard +T, +Wp, -Fel

Thousand Sons +Int, +Wp, -WS

Alpha Legion +Fel, +Int, -WS

Posted at

You don’t ask for much do you? :D
Well the most obvious thing to take note of is that NO ONE is going to want to play a human under your base guideline, they just nerfed bro?
In a more serious tone: Seriously Space Marines start out with a higher baseline; get 40 more points in customization than non-Marines; have Unnatural Strength and Toughness (if not Subskin and Cranial Armor); get better starting gear; have no Role Restrictions; and get the same starting 1000 experience as everyone else.
Sorry but first rule of balancing is that there should be give and takes, here there are no takes to Space Marines.
New Heresy is not built for Space Marines and normal humans (even extraordinary ones) to co-exist as Players, that’s why such thing are limited to the temporary Reinforcement Characters.
If your intent is to use New Heresy either go Full Marine or don’t bother because any human Player is going start Behind and remain so for the whole campaign.
…Besides 30k is particularly all about the SPESS MAHRENS anyways…

Yeah, the focus would be on Space Marines. Playing as a mortal is just an option but anyone picking one would have to accept it is essentially hard mode. It's mostly there as there's some important non-Astartes characters and players may enjoy the roleplaying challenge of it. Particularly if your group does goes for a troupe play format.

Posted at

You've done some good work there Magnus. I would question some of those choices but overall very impressive. I am debating whether they need special rules as the extra layer of complication you mentioned is a big factor however it could act as a very enticing layer of customisation. For adaptation purposes I would give every Legion an Aptitude, I've got a strong idea of what they should all be.

Your Shattered Legions suggestion is very intriguing as well. It acts as a perfect backbone for a campaign with a big, spectacular event that can act as cohesion for the party, alter further motivation and possibly even introduce personal nemeses. Beyond that there's room for multiple paths and can put more pressure on the players to make decisions as switch between hunter and prey with a lot of their allies and support greatly diminished. I have also considered running things like a troupe style game to start with, players choosing one main character each then players making a supporting cast for them, focusing on each in turn before bringing them together. This mimics the early narrative structure of the series and can build some personal stakes for players.

Posted at
I have also considered running things like a troupe style game to start with, players choosing one main character each then players making a supporting cast for them,

A sensible idea; If you want to use Black Crusade directly, giving each player a half-decent Infamy score would work well, reflect each one being at least a Lieutenant or Line Captain with their own squads or resources. Helps avoid 'a ship with four dudes on it' feel.

Posted at

I have also considered running things like a troupe style game to start with, players choosing one main character each then players making a supporting cast for them,

A sensible idea; If you want to use Black Crusade directly, giving each player a half-decent Infamy score would work well, reflect each one being at least a Lieutenant or Line Captain with their own squads or resources. Helps avoid 'a ship with four dudes on it' feel.

Yes, that scope of play seems a fair fit for the type of stories told in the Horus Heresy series. The focus does seem to be on senior officers of the Legions so players would likely end up in that sort of roles.

To support this I'm looking at the Formations rules from Only War: Enemies of the Imperium. Officially a Formation can be formed from Elite level NPCs, much like the generic Battle-Brother stats from Black Crusade or the variety of Chaos Space Marine specialities from Only War as well. I'd probably give Space Marines their own faction specific rules like everyone else, most likely giving them a variation of the Orks special rule to represent Astatres heightened endurance. With this players could lead squads of four to nine Astartes easily enough and so put them in a position of relative importance.