Each month my "club" plays epic with 2 vs 3/3 vs 3 players. Factions are often Rebels vs Imperial - Scum are mercaneries.

Of 4 matches played, Rebels have won 1 match. Any suggestion on list, tactics and upgrades and more to break the losing trend and defeat imperial in epic?

Well, you're looking at a pretty small sample size. Maybe one of the games the Rebels lost was close and could have been won with a little better rolling. With a little better luck in that one situation, you'd be sitting at a 50/50 win rate. Can you identify the reasons that the Rebels have lost more? Does it appear unfair/lopsided somehow?

I've only played a few Epic matches, but the gents here gave me a good forewarning that there are some pretty nasty combinations you can use in Epic to get a serious advantages. Stuff like using Esege to let your corvette use focus results. If one side is using the "dirty tricks," (well, more like effective, not dirty per se) and the other side is not, that would explain lopsided results.

The other thing that could really tip the balance would be whether you guys are both using the huge ships. Huge ships are very point inefficient compared to the smaller ships, so if one side is taking 1 or more huge ships and the other is not, that would definitely be your problem.

Finally, in epic play, I'm seeing that it's better to leave most of your aces at home and spend those extra points on more generic ships. Ordnance is very effective in this game mode, esp. in large numbers. If one side is taking a few high-level ships and the other side is swarming with generics, that could also be the issue.

If there is indeed a problem (and I'm not convinced there is, based on the info you've given,) I'm guessing it's one or more of the things I've listed above. I'm just a newbie to the format though, so I'm sure somebody with more experience will be along shortly to give you some better thoughts.

Stay sharp and watch your six. Don't let those thugs bully you.

Have you run the Tantive with the new mods and Han solo crew?

Have you tried headhunter missile spam?

Have you tried the dreaded tlt swarm?

Have you tried double cheap transports with engine upgrades? (hilarious)

I do think the Raider has the edge in the battle of huge ships, but it can be dealth with quite handily with ordnance these days, or Ion, or both.

Feel like being a poor sport?

I did well at a team epic with my 6 year old, we finished 5 out of 8 by a tiny MoV margin. There's some real good players around here and I'm still somewhat new at this.

My son ran Chewie, Dash, and Wedge (with a transport built to be annoying) and I ran Etahn, Blount, Biggs, Ezra and 2 HLC Bs.

Our first match was a lost, but in large part because we misjudged how direct epic actually is, Wedge, Chewie and Dash were way too far away. But, I gotta say, my son was laughing at ioning and double stressing Soontir. The number of shots it took to take him down were far less funny.

If I was partnering with a grown-up, I'd have gone for more generics. A wall of HLC Bs with Biggs and Etahn is a ton of hits and many, many crits too. We learned the large ship crits suck! The missile corvette could also be fun, but that's a ton of points.

I'd suggest going for quad aggressors to be honest. I would have, but, for some reason, my son couldn't fly Dengar like he can Chewie or Dash.

Well, you're looking at a pretty small sample size. Maybe one of the games the Rebels lost was close and could have been won with a little better rolling. With a little better luck in that one situation, you'd be sitting at a 50/50 win rate. Can you identify the reasons that the Rebels have lost more? Does it appear unfair/lopsided somehow?

I've only played a few Epic matches, but the gents here gave me a good forewarning that there are some pretty nasty combinations you can use in Epic to get a serious advantages. Stuff like using Esege to let your corvette use focus results. If one side is using the "dirty tricks," (well, more like effective, not dirty per se) and the other side is not, that would explain lopsided results.

The other thing that could really tip the balance would be whether you guys are both using the huge ships. Huge ships are very point inefficient compared to the smaller ships, so if one side is taking 1 or more huge ships and the other is not, that would definitely be your problem.

Finally, in epic play, I'm seeing that it's better to leave most of your aces at home and spend those extra points on more generic ships. Ordnance is very effective in this game mode, esp. in large numbers. If one side is taking a few high-level ships and the other side is swarming with generics, that could also be the issue.

If there is indeed a problem (and I'm not convinced there is, based on the info you've given,) I'm guessing it's one or more of the things I've listed above. I'm just a newbie to the format though, so I'm sure somebody with more experience will be along shortly to give you some better thoughts.

Here's some thoughts from the rebel team:

Use Roark with its "give out pilotlevel 12" to 1 ship then copy+paste that ships level to others with help of swarm tactics. Also use Tycho do something similar in case Roark dies.

A lot of A-Wings.

A lot of Y-Wings with turrets.

Use T-70s instead of T-65s.

Use 1 Tantive.

PS4 works wonders

Cheap RAM TRANSPORTS work wonders

Abaht is the DISTRACTION CARNIFEX EXTRAORDINAIRE

and there's the "Use my 2 focuses as if they were your own" K-wing.

PS4 TLTs make short work of any huge.

I thought it was pretty common knowledge that epic point levels of small ships trump the **** out of huge ships so maybe don't run a tant at all and go some crazy bomber squads with escorts. If the empire is still mopping the floor with rebels well I can't deny imperial power, go war machine!

More details are needed please, of both sides squads, in order to give proper advice.

Otherwise the general points made above will have to suffice. Han Solo on a CR90 works well. Generic B wings and X wings are good. I wouldn't bother with HLCs because getting another ship is better.

A transport is surprisingly effective, 2 are even better. Slicer tools and Jamming, with the booster, on both and have them alternate between the 2 actions so one can regain energy while jamming while the other spends energy slicing.

Automatic damage, regardless of green dice makes short work of a swarm of Tie Fighters and Interceptors.

Each month my "club" plays epic with 2 vs 3/3 vs 3 players. Factions are often Rebels vs Imperial - Scum are mercaneries.

Of 4 matches played, Rebels have won 1 match. Any suggestion on list, tactics and upgrades and more to break the losing trend and defeat imperial in epic?

Only time we've ever beaten rebels in Epic was by using scum. IG88x4 is zero epic points and looks like it's about to go x5! Even the Mist Hunter is good when it gets regeneration, gunner, evades (engine upgrade), and cool sl....ahh well, using 3 of 4 ain't bad.

Are there any Epic Tournaments? Maybe the 100pt system is so well supported because that's where a lot of the communities focus is. Maybe we need to get the Epic tourney scene going! Team battles etc so people arent compelled to buy expensive ships

General Epic Tips:

Bring (a lot of) PS 4+ generics - PS4 gets you simultaneous fire with the Raider/Corvette, and lets you PS kill Gozantis and Transports.

Keep named pilots/special abilities to a minimum. Points sunk into abilities only pay off if you remember to trigger them If you are bringing a pilot/special ability, make sure you can keep it alive long enough to earn its points back.

Slow ships (B-Wings, Y-Wings) can be a huge liability if you deploy them in the wrong place and they don't reach the fight on time. When in doubt, deploy slower ships towards the middle of the board.

Try to attack epic ships from the sides with your fighters instead of head on. Epic ships are quite fast and have a large threat range in front of them where you risk being run over. When you fly into that zone, you are forced to focus on escaping that threat on the following turn instead of keeping the epic ship in arc. This means you aren't keeping the pressure on and the epic ship has an opportunity to Recover away all of that damage.

Approaching from the sides has several benefits:
1) you can choose which section of the epic ship to fire on since you have LOS on both

2) easier to acquire target locks at longer range since the ship moves laterally through your arc instead of starting out of range and then closing into range as it moves last.
3) easier to keep the ship (and relevant section) in-arc on subsequent rounds
4) don't have to worry about being run over

Faster ships (A-Wings, T-70s) have a much easier time dictating where the fight takes place and are much more forgiving if you mess up deployment.

Ion Pulse Missiles are amazing against epic ships and a bargain at 3 points. It's almost impossible to miss even a reinforced section with 3 dice + TL and the loss of 2 energy due to the ion effect is a big hit to the epic ship's combat effectiveness in subsequent rounds. Just don't go overboard and unload all of your missiles on one turn - all ion tokens clear each round, so two missiles (-4 energy gain) is the max effect.

For epic ships, energy is life. Optimized Generators is the best epic ship mod because it (effectively) boosts your max energy gain per turn by 2. Considering that energy gain from your maneuver ranges from 1-4 energy, this represents a 50-200% boost in energy economy. This boost allows you to power your secondary weapons while also maintaining an energy reserve to use on Recover actions. Optimized Generators (mod) + Shield Technician (crew) + Backup Shield Generator (cargo) lets you regenerate shields in fore and aft sections without blowing your energy reserves and still powering your weapons. Keeping your shields maxed in both sections is essential to prevent crits from making their way through and most crits are devastating to epic ship combat effectiveness.

More details are needed please, of both sides squads, in order to give proper advice.

Otherwise the general points made above will have to suffice. Han Solo on a CR90 works well. Generic B wings and X wings are good. I wouldn't bother with HLCs because getting another ship is better.

A transport is surprisingly effective, 2 are even better. Slicer tools and Jamming, with the booster, on both and have them alternate between the 2 actions so one can regain energy while jamming while the other spends energy slicing.

Automatic damage, regardless of green dice makes short work of a swarm of Tie Fighters and Interceptors.

Toryn Farr (crew) + Bright Hope (title) lets you take all Focus, Evade and Blue TL tokens from up to 6 (!) enemy ships at range 1-2 of a Transport. This is a great way to shut down an ordnance alpha strike. Transports are nasty.

Being an imperial epic player I would love to help, but I can't bring myself to. Sorry.

Well, I'm Imperial, too, and I just want to throw this out there: Toryn Farr terrifies me!

The ORS gives me nightmares.

The ORS gives me nightmares.

Oh - oh yeah, that's what I meant. That ORS, man can it tear it up in EPIC! That's the one ship I like to see least of all.

Turn off your targeting computers. Secretly deploy a Millineum Falcon in the middle of the board when your Imperial opponent isn't looking.

More ships are often better. But HLCs are fantastic when you're bringing more than 2 or 3 to the table; they'll shred aces and re-enforced sections alike.

The game will go faster, too. You're only at 11 ships, which isn't that much worse than an 8-ship TIE swarm, right?

Great tips transmogrifier, thanks.

More information is needed! What do they normally fly? What kills your ships? There are a lot of ways they can try to kill you and knowing what is doing it will be a big help.

The CR-90 DOES NOT want to duke it out with the Raider. It will get crushed. You really want to circle the Raider and blast from R4-5. Giving you upgrades that can help you move is important. Going for weapons that let you fire at longer range is good, as well. The CR-90 is useful to defeat the Raider...if you can stay out of it's firing arcs. Playing this way can take some practice. It's the harder approach. If you ever get to slip around the firing arcs of the Raider, you will realize it's horrible to turn around. If you can get past and keep circling to blast away with broadside shots, you will win. If they go for an Ordnance Raider, then you definitely want to dance around outside of R3 for them!

If you want to use the CR-90 to evade firing arcs, you will also need to watch out for enemy snub nosed fighters. If they get close enough to you, they will chew you up. You need to control the enemy squadrons. I'd recommend Ion Torpedoes and/or Assault Missiles. If you are able to Ionize a squadron of enemy ships, it can allow your CR-90 to get past them. It also means those guys are vulnerable to your fighter screen the next turn. You will know where they are. Ion Torpedoes are great because almost all of your ships take Torpedoes. You do the main damage of the Torpedo and all ships at R1 are Ionized for a turn. That can be huge in ensuring the CR-90 gets to slip away.

T-65's are great in epic! They are affordable. They are fast. They hit with 3 dice. The 2 green dice are good vs. epic weapons. It takes a bit of firepower to kill one. Integrated Astromechs are good to keep them alive (proxy them for all your X-wings). They can take Torpedoes. Ion are good for control (see above) and Proton Torpedoes will give crits to the epic ships. Crits are HUGE against epics. Avoid named guys. Generics should be fine. Maybe throw in someone like Garven Dreis who can support the others.

If you really want to go for the power combo, go with Jan Ors around the CR-90. With her and the extra energy, you can boost the main weapon of the ship to 6 red dice!!! That's crazy powerful. Also, even a couple of Y-wings with TLT's in the right spot can really help wear down whoever you need to. It's nasty vs. epic ships as it just does constant damage and wears them down. It's also good to clear tokens off enemy ships or to take that last hit or two off enemy fighters.

Horton Salm with Proton Torpedo, Extra Munitions, and Guidance Chip is nasty against epic ships. If you place him right and he gets in range of the enemy epic ships, he will put a hurt on them. He gets to re-roll all blanks at R2-3! One eyeball turns to a crit. GC changes another to a hit. He's going to be rolling high hits. You might need to pair him with someone to help him get Target Locks on the epic ships, though. They can be hard to do since they move last. The Co-ordinate action from an Epic or Cracken firing and giving a free action is very helpful. Or someone with Tracer? One Z-95 with a few Y-wings can really hurt an epic ship, especially with Horton around. You can also go with Plasma Torpedo with him if you want as he will fire early in the round and will be hitting shields.

If you are going for a diagonal approach with the CR-90, you might be set up right for B-wings and Y-wings for placement. Have them start in the middle and go straight-diagonal-ish, but not too close to the CR-90. The Raider will be turning to face the CR-90 and allow the slower ships to close in and get shots off. I'm not normally a fan of B-wings in Epic, but if you place it right, they would be beasts.

Proxy the upgrades from the Gozanti as they are really just fixes for epic ships.

What is killing your fleet? Is it lots of Tie Interceptors? Swarms of Tie Fighters? Going toe-to-toe with the Raider? Tie Bombers?

My 2 cents.

As mentioned above, the raider is brutal in a nose to nose fight, easily the most powerful head on. The CR-90 has wider arc coverage, especially the sides. If I am going to be facing a raider, i always deploy sideways and attempt to circle it. Run the new upgrades that come with the gozanti, they really help "fix" the big ships.

300 points of fighters will nearly always crush an opposing force with a large ship. when we play, we have a requirement that you field at least 2 epic points per side (it aint really epic if there are no big boys on the table.

IMO, the rebel transport is the best huge ship in the game

Take a good look at ordnance tubes, they can give you a lot of capability and remove some of the energy burden of firing all those weapons, just make sure you can generate all the target locks you need. My experience has been that one or 2 missles torps is enough, using the third hardpoint for a conventional energy based weapon.

Beware of sinking too many points into your big ships. build it to do one thing, don't try to build it to do all things. I try to cap a CR-90 at about 125.

The most competitive rebel lists leave the CR-90 at home and bring a transports with Farr and comms booster. Buff your fighters, jam the enemy, watch them flee before you, and here the lamentations of the women!

On a final note: think about what you want your big ship to do. kill fighters? hurt other big ships? It's often crowded on an epic board, so think about area effect weapons like assault missles. Also, ion big ships all you can, it really hurts to sap them of their energy.

I like to build a CR-90 to kill fighters, letting my fighters kill the enemy big ship. this is usually not expected by an opponent. Using assault missles, quad laser cannons, etc, You can let the enemy fighters come, send the majority of your force to engage the enemy raider early, and keep a few fighters back to guard your aft until your fighters can return to mop up

I would suggest going up to team epic which is 400 points per team, 200 points per player.

Tantive with T-70 Escorts

A-wing crack procket squad

Y-wing TLT squad