Entering the 4th round, I was 2-1 at the local monthly tournament, having just lost to the very strong and friendly mynock who went 2nd at the norcal regional, and I was facing another strong mynock player. He's very friendly and it's always fun playing with him. I had beaten him before but this match wasn't going well, and Biggs had just died. I did not draw the extra damage cards as it didn't make a difference and my opponent didn't care. I have to say that if he had asked me to I would have, it's just part of being friendly to your opponent. But he didn't care and we moved on to the next round. Except we couldn't.

The TO (also a regular local player at the store, like me) happened to pass by our table and told me to draw the extra cards. At first I calmly pointed out it didn't really make a difference, since I wasn't gaining any advantage, but he started to get angry and insisted that a rule is a rule whether meaningful or not. I don't like being bullied, so I got angry myself as well at that point. When he told me to pack up and leave I refused. I and my friendly opponent went back to playing, while the not-so friendly TO went to the other TO, the one who is an actual store employee. Since the other TO is running a business and I am a regular customer who was not cheating but only broke a usually meaningless rule, he decided he didn't care to toss me out of the store.

However, what concentration and fun I was having was gone, and I dropped out. I also realized that I was spending 8+ hours in a hot store in socal not only playing with plastic spaceship (which can still be fun) but now arguing about plastic spaceships – something I thought I was done in primary school. So I went home and put my $600+ collection for sale.

If you care to know, the TO above was the socal regional champion and mynock podcaster.

Take care everybody, it was fun while it lasted.

C ya.

So what you're saying is if you'd simply just shrugged and drawn the cards, your $600 collection would not be up for sale right now...?

That seems a rather petty thing to sell your collection over...

poor example

here's a real example

this is NOT keeping one's distance

on the other hand, it also doesn't look like keeping one's distance

so it's about half casual

Overreact much?

Wow

I understand your frustration, I alwys forget to draw the extra cards( but that's more a detriment to yourself right) but think you may be slightly over reacting, you have 600 dollars of minis so you obviously enjoy the game.

So come on be honest, you wanted to vent on the forum and hoped some people would talk you out of it.

Job done.

poor example

here's a real example

this is NOT keeping one's distance

on the other hand, it also doesn't look like keeping one's distance

so it's about half casual

I so knew Fickle would have a much better example....

While I do think you maybe over reacting selling your stuff, seems more like that is punishing you rather than the to.

A punch in the nose may hurt him more than selling your stuff... Only saying lol.

Anyway I think he was a bit out of line. (it's not the end of the world if you don't mill your deck and if your opponent is fine with that, then that also should be fine)

I think some of these guys who run podcasts and stuff think they have some almighty power once they get a few followers. No, your not a celebrity, your just some guy playing with plastic Ships lol. Your still nobody special. Just some guy with a hobby, that really for the most part is pretty niche lol

Kind of sad imo

I will admit, it's definitely an example of not flying casual...selling your collection and posting about how angry a meaningless rule made you is a great example

That's a lot of ion and stress tokens in that there picture.

AFAIK drawing extra damage cards isn't an optional rule, so in the strictest sense you got mad at a TO for not letting you cheat (even if you were getting no advantage from that, technically it's still cheating since you knowingly chose to ignore a non-optional rule).

Idk but kicking someone out of a store over such a stupid thing. I mean really?

I'm of the mindset If both players are fine with it, then let them deal with it.

TO should be stepping where both sides cannot reach am agreement imo.

Yes rules are rules, but I don't think kicking someone out is a good way to handle this situation. Especially since his opponent was totally fine with it. I wouldn't consider it cheating, as cheating is usually trying to do something illegal without your opponents knowledge.

Now if his opponent was not fine with it, called the TO over and buddy still refused, then I'd say he was totally in his right. That is not the case from what we are told.

IMO, tournament rules are quite clear which parts of the rules can the players agree to disregard, and that's only Missed Opportunities and only in casual tournaments. There is no 'can disregard any part of the rules as long as both players are cool with it' clause anywhere.

A TO is there IMO in order to make sure the rules of the tournament are being followed. If the tournament is run by FFG rules, that includes making sure all players follow the official rules as much as possible. Not drawing all cards will cause the game to play differently as soon as the next face up card is drawn, with the potential to affect MOV and/or game outcome and therefore the standing if several other players.

Also, it doesn't sound like the OP was asked to leave for not drawing extra damage cards, but for blatantly refusing to comply with a TOs direct request to follow the official rules of the game. Disrespecting the organizer/judge/referee should have big consequences in any kind of competitive event IMO.

IMO, tournament rules are quite clear which parts of the rules can the players agree to disregard, and that's only Missed Opportunities and only in casual tournaments. There is no 'can disregard any part of the rules as long as both players are cool with it' clause anywhere.

A TO is there IMO in order to make sure the rules of the tournament are being followed. If the tournament is run by FFG rules, that includes making sure all players follow the official rules as much as possible. Not drawing all cards will cause the game to play differently as soon as the next face up card is drawn, with the potential to affect MOV and/or game outcome and therefore the standing if several other players.

Also, it doesn't sound like the OP was asked to leave for not drawing extra damage cards, but for blatantly refusing to comply with a TOs direct request to follow the official rules of the game. Disrespecting the organizer/judge/referee should have big consequences in any kind of competitive event IMO.

Then what about the rule ffg made about using their play mats?

Now unless they changed this rule which they may have and if so disregard what saying, but I believe they made a ruling that states if you use a playmat it has to be an official ffg mat.

So if that is the case, any store championship, regional or whatever that does not use their playmat is illegal?

Then What?

A rule is a rule afterall

And I mean come guys if it's not a sanction tournament do you really need get your it panties in a bunch?

Maybe I'm more laid back then others, idk, but I mean it's a game with plastic space ships. Get over yourselves lol.

a rule is a rule. if you don't have to follow that one I don't have to follow the ones I don't want to.

IMO, tournament rules are quite clear which parts of the rules can the players agree to disregard, and that's only Missed Opportunities and only in casual tournaments. There is no 'can disregard any part of the rules as long as both players are cool with it' clause anywhere.

A TO is there IMO in order to make sure the rules of the tournament are being followed. If the tournament is run by FFG rules, that includes making sure all players follow the official rules as much as possible. Not drawing all cards will cause the game to play differently as soon as the next face up card is drawn, with the potential to affect MOV and/or game outcome and therefore the standing if several other players.

Also, it doesn't sound like the OP was asked to leave for not drawing extra damage cards, but for blatantly refusing to comply with a TOs direct request to follow the official rules of the game. Disrespecting the organizer/judge/referee should have big consequences in any kind of competitive event IMO.

As a TO for a different games system, i feel the need to quote this for emphasis.

The TO might have been a bit heavy handed, but they where in the right. It is the TO's responsibility to see the rules are enforced (FYI: Since the damage cards of destroyed ships are discarded faceup, not drawing the cards for a dead ship does impact decision making with regards to probability and crits). And in my opinion, refusing to follow the written rules when an official asks you to is about as far from the spirit of fly casual as possible.

Yeah, sorry to see you go but this... kind of feels like it's on you? From the TO's point of view you REALLY seemed to go out of your way to look like someone who'd, for example, stacked your damage deck in some way.

You "weren't cheating" you just broke a rule then directly refused to correct it when asked by a TO. Err... Ok?

IMO, tournament rules are quite clear which parts of the rules can the players agree to disregard, and that's only Missed Opportunities and only in casual tournaments. There is no 'can disregard any part of the rules as long as both players are cool with it' clause anywhere.

A TO is there IMO in order to make sure the rules of the tournament are being followed. If the tournament is run by FFG rules, that includes making sure all players follow the official rules as much as possible. Not drawing all cards will cause the game to play differently as soon as the next face up card is drawn, with the potential to affect MOV and/or game outcome and therefore the standing if several other players.

Also, it doesn't sound like the OP was asked to leave for not drawing extra damage cards, but for blatantly refusing to comply with a TOs direct request to follow the official rules of the game. Disrespecting the organizer/judge/referee should have big consequences in any kind of competitive event IMO.

Follow the TO´s instructions. Even if you disagree just do what they say, they are there to handle the event.

The problem here was not the TO.

HE: moron who needs to get a life.

THEE: overreacting child who needs to grow up.

I don't play in local stores because of strict socially retarded killjoys with inadequacy issues. They're moronic immaturity while trying to prove something can get my blood simmering.

But I would never sell my beautiful model ships. This is MY hobby and what I love and no half-witted dumbass boiler-brained loser is going to ruin that for me. Every game I play with a smile on my face is all the satisfactory vengeance I need.

But if you want to be a child and sell your collection because of one jerk I'll simply say:

"So long, and thanks for all the fish."

In summary...

You refused to follow the rules. You got angry with the TO for trying to enforce the rules. You blatantly disrespected the TO, and since you got angry, it is easy to assume you raised your voice at the least. You argued with the TO and pretty much told him you are not going to follow the rules.

The TO was well within their rights to tell you to leave.

The fact that you ended up acting like a spoiled, entitled brat and are now selling your collection?

Good riddance. Your type is not needed in the community.

YOU are the example of not flying casual.

Also, damage cards from a destroyed ship becomes public information since they are in the discard pile. So even if it probably doesn't change the outcome of a game it still provides information about which cards are still in the damage deck.

Archie

Entering the 4th round, I was 2-1 at the local monthly tournament, having just lost to the very strong and friendly mynock who went 2nd at the norcal regional, and I was facing another strong mynock player. He's very friendly and it's always fun playing with him. I had beaten him before but this match wasn't going well, and Biggs had just died. I did not draw the extra damage cards as it didn't make a difference and my opponent didn't care. I have to say that if he had asked me to I would have, it's just part of being friendly to your opponent. But he didn't care and we moved on to the next round. Except we couldn't.

The TO (also a regular local player at the store, like me) happened to pass by our table and told me to draw the extra cards. At first I calmly pointed out it didn't really make a difference, since I wasn't gaining any advantage, but he started to get angry and insisted that a rule is a rule whether meaningful or not. I don't like being bullied, so I got angry myself as well at that point. When he told me to pack up and leave I refused. I and my friendly opponent went back to playing, while the not-so friendly TO went to the other TO, the one who is an actual store employee. Since the other TO is running a business and I am a regular customer who was not cheating but only broke a usually meaningless rule, he decided he didn't care to toss me out of the store.

However, what concentration and fun I was having was gone, and I dropped out. I also realized that I was spending 8+ hours in a hot store in socal not only playing with plastic spaceship (which can still be fun) but now arguing about plastic spaceships – something I thought I was done in primary school. So I went home and put my $600+ collection for sale.

If you care to know, the TO above was the socal regional champion and mynock podcaster.

Take care everybody, it was fun while it lasted.

Good afternoon sir,

I know who you are, and you know who I am. However, most of the people on this forum don't know you. I've enjoyed playing against you in the past, you're pretty good at the game and bring some great competitiveness. While I am sad to see you potentially leave the game, I cannot sit here and let you passive aggressively call out and slander one of the strongest members of the So-Cal community. Anyone who listens to our Podcast knows that I'M certainly no regional champion, so really that just leaves a couple people hanging out to dry. In your overall frustration and rage over what happened you're attempting to hurt another person's reputation and that is grade-A loser behavior that doesn't belong in this game. I was standing right behind you when the incident in question took place. This is exactly what went down:

TO: "Hey, make sure you apply that final damage card."

You: "No, it's meaningless it doesn't really matter at all."

TO: "I'm afraid I have to insist; it's mostly meaningless but clear in the rules."

You: "No, it's meaningless you can't make me."

TO: "Actually...I am the judge today. Just burn the card it's the tournament rule"

You: "What, are you going to kick me out of the tournament?"

TO: "If you refuse, and continue to be combative, yes."

You: "I'm not going to. Are you going to physically drag me out of the store?"

At this point the TO went to talk to the store owner for a second opinion. If I remember correctly you did NOT end up getting thrown out. Get off your high horse man, your own stubbornness got you into that situation, not the TO. Anyone who listens to the podcast knows that if my co-host was out of line I would be the first to call him out for it. He handled it in a professional manor, and you're the one who seems to think he was on some kind of "crazy power trip". He called me out earlier in the tournament for accidently rolling 4 green dice, even though it was almost certain I would evade the one hit with 3 and a focus (with Autothrusters). I didn't go "No I won't roll three, it doesn't matter anyway", I just rerolled the 3 dice. He did that all day like a GOOD JUDGE SHOULD. You weren't being singled out, and it's your own fault you're in this situation. I hope you find no sympathy here, because calling out one of the best members of the community has certainly cost you mine.

Now to this point:

While I do think you maybe over reacting selling your stuff, seems more like that is punishing you rather than the to.

A punch in the nose may hurt him more than selling your stuff... Only saying lol.

Anyway I think he was a bit out of line. (it's not the end of the world if you don't mill your deck and if your opponent is fine with that, then that also should be fine)

I think some of these guys who run podcasts and stuff think they have some almighty power once they get a few followers. No, your not a celebrity, your just some guy playing with plastic Ships lol. Your still nobody special. Just some guy with a hobby, that really for the most part is pretty niche lol

Kind of sad imo

You're suggesting violence is a good option? Maybe you should sell your collection too, because we don't want people throwing punches like children when things don't go their way. And don't say "Oh it's just a joke I didn't actually mean he should hit him" You typed it, so you clearly in some way meant it. I don't want ANY fights breaking out at X-Wing tourneys, the TOs and Judges are under enough pressure as it is without also fearing that some overgrown man-child with throw a hissy fit and try to hit them when they don't get their way.

To your second point. You're absolutely correct, I'm not a celebrity, none of us are (actually it's pretty evident from our podcast that no one really even knows I exist). We just have things to say about a game we love and sometimes people agree, other times they don't. This event has NOTHING to do with podcasting, it has NOTHING to do with notions of "power" or influence. It was simply one person refusing to follow a rule. If you like to play without listening to a judge then that's on you. In MY opinion I think it's kind of sad that you think it's okay to suggest violence and blatant disregard for the rules when dealing with TOs and your opponents. Happy flying though.

This is my defense, and I hope i shed some clarity on the situation.

-Moisture Farmer

In summary...

You refused to follow the rules. You got angry with the TO for trying to enforce the rules. You blatantly disrespected the TO, and since you got angry, it is easy to assume you raised your voice at the least. You argued with the TO and pretty much told him you are not going to follow the rules.

The TO was well within their rights to tell you to leave.

The fact that you ended up acting like a spoiled, entitled brat and are now selling your collection?

Good riddance. Your type is not needed in the community.

YOU are the example of not flying casual.

I really don't get the mentality over such a thing. You do realize this is not the world Cup, suoeebowl, world series or Stanley Cup? It's a game with small spaceships with grown adults Going pew pew while quoting quotes from a movie rofl.

That's what I find sad. People getting all bent out of shape over such a minor instance, and it wasn't even a Sanction tournament, and both sides were in agreement.

Now hey, I'm a competitive player. I'm a good sportsman, and I have been playing I'm competitive sports since I was a kid, so I get the competitive side people have. I have it to, but at the end of the day we are grown adults playing a game with plastic space ships.

Now I'm not saying buddy was in his right to argue, but I know some people, once they feel as though they are I'm charge of others get some sort of power feeling, and can be hard to deal with. There are times where they can overreact as well. Throwing someone out in a tournament over a very minor infraction seems petty to me.