I am holding a tournament this coming Saturday, July 2nd, to give us a chance to finally put vets on the table (posted in organized play). I'm wondering what folks think the odds of Imperial Vets taking the top spot/spots on their first day out? I think there is a VERY good chance, maybe even a probability.

I am definitely excited to see where the meta goes come June 30.

It depends on how much proxy practice folks in your area have had. If they've been proxing the bejeebus out of TIE/x7 then they've got a decent chance. If not...

On the basis that new ships tend to get played far more than anything else in small tourneys, I would say a very high chance.

there's a good chance

it's a combination of

1.) x7 defenders just being mathematically really **** solid

2.) defenders, pre-fix, being about as common as a sun-loving albino, unless your local area proxied imp vets extensively

not even counting potential Tie/D shenanigans, esp t-beams which no one seems to use

combination of incredibly solid capability + bizarre dial (esp the white 4k, so simplistic in theory but so complex ito actual gameplay impact) = **** good chance to net wins just by putting them on the table and having an opponent that doesn't know how to cope

I just posted a battle report in the appropriate forums from our local tournament this weekend. The three lists that ran the new defenders all made it into the top 4 cut. Obviously this could be due to most players being unfamiliar with the new Titles, but time will tell.

Yes.

If you have a large enough sample size it is bound to happen especially if they are commonly flown as well.

Of course is it really going to be their "first time out" when some have been playing with them as if Vets has been out since the first spoilers appeared? I mean when so many say "just proxy any cards you don't have" doesn't that mean Vets have already been out for six months already.

I suspect this is the time they'll have the best chance at a win. You'll have a combination of excited people who have practiced the titles via proxy combined with new model syndrome increasing their frequency combined with a big block of players who still probably haven't played against them. 2 in top 8?

I think we had the same effect when Palpatine turned up last year and he steamrollered people who were not expecting it or had written him off as too expensive

Forget about U-boats, man. Welcome to Defender Hell.

Forget about U-boats, man. Welcome to Defender Hell.

X7 Defenders will be frustrating to play against because they'll be so damned tough. I think the strongest triple/x7 list will be 3xGlaive with Crack Shot. Good PS, nasty-tough, and just enough offense to stay ahead in the damage race until time is called.

The way I see it, the set comes with a red TIE Defender miniature and thus it's already won.

At the regionals yesterday, FFG allowed the South African distributor to release and sell the ships on the day and I allowed them in the tournament with about a week's notice to players.

All in all, there wasn't really that huge of an impact. The top 3 were fairly traditional Imperial, Rebel and Scum lists. Some tricky flying was seen with Countess Ryad but the biggest effect was with the x7 title, players struggled to finish them off.

Forget about U-boats, man. Welcome to Defender Hell.

X7 Defenders will be frustrating to play against because they'll be so damned tough. I think the strongest triple/x7 list will be 3xGlaive with Crack Shot. Good PS, nasty-tough, and just enough offense to stay ahead in the damage race until time is called.

No reason not to move one glaive to Vessery for that free point. I already have plans to run Vessery, and two glaives all with x7 and crack.

Forget about U-boats, man. Welcome to Defender Hell.

Well it depends on the builds. U-boats is a case where the ship built it's own squadron list much like Brobots. TLT didn't really build its own list as Stresshog was already a build but it just added to it and brought a alternative in the form of TL-Thugs.

However Imperials already have one solid build and that is Palp-Ace. After Veterans I don't necessarily see a list of only Defenders or Bombers or a combination of the two, which brigs the next question does it fall in any of the top meta list. In order for a new ship/pilot/upgrade to be in the top meta it has to do one of two things.

1. Make a least centralized around the newly released item
2. Be able to modify/enhance already established top tier lists.

So unless someone can make a Defender/Bomber list out there I don't see it being in Palp Aces either, thus I do not believe it will be on the final table at Worlds. But I could be wrong.

Forget about U-boats, man. Welcome to Defender Hell.

Well it depends on the builds. U-boats is a case where the ship built it's own squadron list much like Brobots. TLT didn't really build its own list as Stresshog was already a build but it just added to it and brought a alternative in the form of TL-Thugs.

However Imperials already have one solid build and that is Palp-Ace. After Veterans I don't necessarily see a list of only Defenders or Bombers or a combination of the two, which brigs the next question does it fall in any of the top meta list. In order for a new ship/pilot/upgrade to be in the top meta it has to do one of two things.

1. Make a least centralized around the newly released item
2. Be able to modify/enhance already established top tier lists.

So unless someone can make a Defender/Bomber list out there I don't see it being in Palp Aces either, thus I do not believe it will be on the final table at Worlds. But I could be wrong.

Nothing stopping you from running a Defender with Palp, you know? PGS made a thread about that, I think it was Palpmobil, Omega Leader, Vessery. Maybe the Inquisitor. There might also be space for even Predator Rexler. They definitly can be integrated into an existing archetype.

Bombers on the other hand can form an imperial version of U-Boats with Gamma Vets, that has slightly less dice modification (very slightly, in fact just the focus change of Proton Torps is missing), less durability, but a lot higher PS and the advantages a small base offers at controlling ranges. It also costs a lot less, so there is room for an additional ship, even! I have posted it quite a bit over the last few weeks in hopes that a good player will pick it up. I guess another time won't hurt

Gamma Squadron Veteran (27) x 3

TIE Bomber (19), Deadeye (1), Extra Munitions (2), Homing Missiles (5), Guidance Chips (0)

Scimitar Squadron Pilot (19)

TIE Bomber (16), TIE Shuttle (0), Fleet Officer (3)

I think JM5K's have gone well is that they are new and people still aren't used to flying against them. People have an idea what a Defender can do, they just know now that it has been given a little love and is better than before. I think give JM5K's a year and they wont be the bug bear that they are now, regardless of releases.

This isn't to take anything away from the good JM5K pilots, just that people sorta know what a Defender can and can't do already.

Forget about U-boats, man. Welcome to Defender Hell.

X7 Defenders will be frustrating to play against because they'll be so damned tough. I think the strongest triple/x7 list will be 3xGlaive with Crack Shot. Good PS, nasty-tough, and just enough offense to stay ahead in the damage race until time is called.

Or the defensive versión, 3 deltas with x7 + stealth device.

Its like a wall, with focus & evade every turn

Forget about U-boats, man. Welcome to Defender Hell.

X7 Defenders will be frustrating to play against because they'll be so damned tough. I think the strongest triple/x7 list will be 3xGlaive with Crack Shot. Good PS, nasty-tough, and just enough offense to stay ahead in the damage race until time is called.

No reason not to move one glaive to Vessery for that free point. I already have plans to run Vessery, and two glaives all with x7 and crack.

-initiative against Brobots

-initiative against the list you just described

-allowing all your ships to get Focus/Evade every turn

These may not be convincing to you, but they are reasons, and they aren't trivial.

Forget about U-boats, man. Welcome to Defender Hell.

X7 Defenders will be frustrating to play against because they'll be so damned tough. I think the strongest triple/x7 list will be 3xGlaive with Crack Shot. Good PS, nasty-tough, and just enough offense to stay ahead in the damage race until time is called.

No reason not to move one glaive to Vessery for that free point. I already have plans to run Vessery, and two glaives all with x7 and crack.

This are the reasons:

-initiative against Brobots

-initiative against the list you just described

-allowing all your ships to get Focus/Evade every turn

These may not be convincing to you, but they are reasons, and they aren't trivial.

3 defenders is the new Brobots imo. Fly somewhat similar but they're just tougher overall because there's 3 of them and their action economy is quite insane.

I'm wondering what folks think the odds of Imperial Vets taking the top spot/spots on their first day out?

1370/1

These are the reasons:

-initiative against Brobots

-initiative against the list you just described

-allowing all your ships to get Focus/Evade every turn

These may not be convincing to you, but they are reasons, and they aren't trivial.

Those are trivial. That's more play preference than anything.

These are the reasons:

-initiative against Brobots

-initiative against the list you just described

-allowing all your ships to get Focus/Evade every turn

These may not be convincing to you, but they are reasons, and they aren't trivial.

Those are trivial. That's more play preference than anything.

I don't think play preference is trivial. I haven't and won't say that triple Glaive is absolutely better than G/G/V, but it has meaningful advantages and disadvantages that make it a choice worth considering. You said there was "no reason not to take Vessery". I have given reasons. It's perfectly acceptable to me that you or anyone else can reject them as not meaningful.

Forget about U-boats, man. Welcome to Defender Hell.

X7 Defenders will be frustrating to play against because they'll be so damned tough. I think the strongest triple/x7 list will be 3xGlaive with Crack Shot. Good PS, nasty-tough, and just enough offense to stay ahead in the damage race until time is called.

Or the defensive versión, 3 deltas with x7 + stealth device.

Its like a wall, with focus & evade every turn

I've played against that one, and yeah, it's unexpectedly tough to beat - they can be effectively used as blockers, notably even k-turning into a blocking position and still getting focus+evade. So they can really put the hurt on a lot of lists.

They sort of melt when faced with U-boats, though, so...YMMV.

I would wager that Imperial Vets will benefit from a "selection bias" effect and could do well simply upon weight of numbers. Lots of people will try them, to varying success, but sheer numbers of players dabbling with Vet builds or building upon proxy success will dictate that they have a better statistical chance. The question to me is whether or not Defenders (and/or Bombers) REMAIN in the meta moving forward to the next wave and beyond. There's a shock factor after each wave, so it will be interesting to see the dust settle.

They sort of melt when faced with U-boats, though, so...YMMV.

Not so sure about that. Once the torps are gone, those 2 dice turrets are not getting through. I think the worst match up for triple defenders is arc dodgers.