Title says it all.

I'm going to a tournament today and I don't know what to play. I'm an Imperial homer so I'm definitely bringing an ISD-1 and a GSD-2 Demolisher, but I'm open to other things. I dislike fighters and I find the Raider's lack of range to be incredibly frustrating.

So what do you think?

I dislike fighters and I find the Raider's lack of range to be incredibly frustrating.

I cannot help you.

As a Rebel player, I know what intimidates me when I see it from the other side of the table....

I shudder when I see a Solid Group of Fighter/Bomber power, backed with the Anti-Squadron nouse of a Raider-I with Ordinance Experts (and occasionally Impetuous or Instigator).... It is a solid counter to any amount of squadrons I want to bring as a Rebel...

When I do switch up, a Solid Intel Rhymer ball ne'er goes to waste... With Speed 4 under command and flinging at medium range, means there's almost always ship shots to get.

But but fighters are for x wing!

But but fighters are for x wing!

But but fighters are for x wing!

I would gladly pay 134 points for an upgrade that reads "All squadrons are blown up and removed from the field of play. Now play the rest of the game with your capital ships"

I hate them....

I simply don't understand the hate.

Title says it all.

I'm going to a tournament today and I don't know what to play. I'm an Imperial homer so I'm definitely bringing an ISD-1 and a GSD-2 Demolisher, but I'm open to other things. I dislike fighters and I find the Raider's lack of range to be incredibly frustrating.

So what do you think?

Ok, so if you plan to go squadronless, then you really want a high ship count. In this case, having a tricked out demo, an ISD AND no raiders is not going to achieve this.

So whats more important? Demo, ISD, or No raiders?

2 ISDs, 3 Raiders, keeping in mind your Raiders have to deal with squadrons.

Mind you, I'm a fan of squadrons.

An ISD and 3 gladiators. A friend has been playing something similar, it works okay.

Ok so I'm thinking :

ISD-1 Vader, Gunnery team

GSD-II, Wulf, Expanded Launchers, Engine Techs

And 3x Raider-1 with ordnance experts.

399 points if I did the math right.

6 Raiders.

ISD II with gunnery, Motti, ECM, Leading shots

GSD with Demo, Ord Experts, and Launchers

GSD with Insidious, Ord Experts, and Launchers

6x Interceptors

Let me know how it goes if you use this, I was going to use it thursday in my first game playing as Imps.

I realize you don't like squadrons, just use the squints to tie up what's out there, or you could swap in a Raider with title.

Guys, Raiders are absolutely terrible. Never again.

Well, its all in how you use them, obviously.

If they're not for you, they're not for you... But that doesn't make 'em terrible.

Averages on Regional Data say otherwise, after all

Well, its all in how you use them, obviously.

If they're not for you, they're not for you... But that doesn't make 'em terrible.

Averages on Regional Data say otherwise, after all

::shrug::

They wouldn't have been recommended if there wasn't a good use for them to the people who recommended them.

Like I said, if they're not for you, they're not for you.

I guess then the fleet that may work for you is ISD1/GSD2/GSD2/GSD1/RDR1 with the premise that the Raider flies your admiral away from the battle.

As far as Raiders go, the main rule is to be not where your target ship is but to where it's going to be next turn.

It sounds like you already know what to do.

I simply don't understand the hate.

There is an entire game dedicated to squadron combat. Right now, and especially going forward, it is impossible to field more than about 300 points of ships in a 400 point game and stay competitive.

If I wanted to field a hundred points of squadrons just to have a chance at winning, I'd play X-Wing.

I play ARMADA. I play with BIG SHIPS. The over-emphasis of squadrons makes me absolutely furious, especially when half the Imperial squadrons are useless and the other half are either not lore-appropriate or accused of abuse/cheese.

I would much rather play a 300 point game that banned squadrons outright than a 300 point game of Armada and a 100 point game of X-Wing simultaneously.

Right now, and especially going forward, it is impossible to field more than about 300 points of ships in a 400 point game and stay competitive.

Thats a common misconception.

The Squadron Game of X-Wing has nothing in mechanics common with the Game of Armada.

So asserting you're playing a 100pt game of X-Wing along with a game of Armada is, at best, ludicrous.

--

Your assertions on "300 points of ships in a 400 pt game and stay competitive" is also ludicrous, based on the amount of all ship lists that, according to regional results, were competitive enough to bring. Both on the Imperial and Rebel side.

--

So, no. I still don't understand the hate.

Once upon a time I had three raiders, I have given two of them away to others. I like the big triangles of doom, but GSD's are nice enough if you refuse the gift Sinar Shipyards has bestowed upon you!

There is an entire game dedicated to squadron combat.... *Ger babble babble snarl glorble* ...ver-emphasis of squadrons makes me absolutely furious, especially when half the Imperial squadrons are useles *Kill-frenzy Kiill-frenzy Kill-frenzy*....

I would much rather play a 300 point game that banned squadrons outright than a 300 point game of Armada and a 100 point game of X-Wing simultaneously.

Wrong setting, right sentiment.

I seriously can't help anyone here. Please hand yourselves over to the Imperial authority immediately, either 'Imperial' will do.

The Squadron Game of X-Wing has nothing in mechanics common with the Game of Armada.

So asserting you're playing a 100pt game of X-Wing along with a game of Armada is, at best, ludicrous.

--

Your assertions on "300 points of ships in a 400 pt game and stay competitive" is also ludicrous, based on the amount of all ship lists that, according to regional results, were competitive enough to bring. Both on the Imperial and Rebel side.

--

So, no. I still don't understand the hate.

All ship lists almost completely disappeared by the end of Regionals season and Nationals showed that the only seriously competitive lists were squadron heavy. The new upgrades that have been spoiled make squadrons too valuable on a point-for-point basis to leave out, either as a screen against bombers or as bombers to augment your ship firepower (and more likely both).

And yes I absolutely consider X-Wing and Armada Squadrons to be linked. They are squadron/fighter focused games in each case. Just because the mechanics don't 100% align doesn't change the fact that competitive lists going forward will almost always have to include squadrons to avoid being swamped by bombers.

It is no longer reasonably possible to play Armada without squadrons being nearly required. And that is extremely frustrating.

All ship lists almost completely disappeared by the end of Regionals season and Nationals showed that the only seriously competitive lists were squadron heavy.

What data are you basing this assertion on?

I mean, I can tell you, at least Anecdotally - That yesterday at the Edmonton Regionals, 6 of 10 Fleets were No Squadrons.