Can anyone please explain to me how the Control upgrade for Heal/Harm works? I was a tad confused by the description.
Control upgrade for Heal/Harm power
Which one?
There are several, so we would need to know which one is giving you trouble in order to help.
And this is why I give all the Control upgrades names, so this sort of thing doesn't happen.
EDIT: You know what? I'll explain 'em all. Give me a minute...
Edited by Absol197Which one?
For healing Strain. Sorry!
Also, a force user in our group last night completely wrecked the combat with the Control upgrade of Move that allows you to disarm. How is this one supposed to work also? He used it to disarm the big bad Nemesis in the fight easily, since he has a 3 force dice force rating, and then he later ripped the jet pack off the same Nemesis, causing his to plummet to the ground and die. He later used it to cause an airspeeder that was hovering in the air to crash into a Minion group.
Which one?
For healing Strain. Sorry!
If you don't use dark side pips, then the healed target also recovers strain equal to the wounds they recover.
When you use Heal, if you didn't spend any dark side points to fuel the power (not whether you rolled any), the target(s) can heal strain in addition to healing wounds; Harm is saying that if you did use a dark side point to fuel the power, you can inflict strain on the target(s). So for Heal, if you rolled 2 Light Side and 1 Dark Side for the power, if you only used the Light Side points on the power/upgrades, you get the Strain bonus, but if you use the Dark Side point, the Strain bonus doesn't apply. Similarly with Harm, if you only used Light Side points to activate the power/upgrades you don't get to recover Strain from yourself, you need to spend the Dark Side point to get that bonus.
And check out page 283 for resisting force power checks. The Nemesis should have had a chance to oppose the weapon being pulled from his hands. The player would have had to use Discipline, and the Nemesis would've used Athletics, or if they're force-sensitive, Discipline (your choice). For the jetpack and airspeeder, you could've allowed the opposed check to have been against the respective characters' Piloting (Planetary).
When you use Heal, if you didn't spend any dark side points to fuel the power (not whether you rolled any), the target(s) can heal strain in addition to healing wounds; Harm is saying that if you did use a dark side point to fuel the power, you can inflict strain on the target(s). So for Heal, if you rolled 2 Light Side and 1 Dark Side for the power, if you only used the Light Side points on the power/upgrades, you get the Strain bonus, but if you use the Dark Side point, the Strain bonus doesn't apply. Similarly with Harm, if you only used Light Side points to activate the power/upgrades you don't get to recover Strain from yourself, you need to spend the Dark Side point to get that bonus.
And check out page 283 for resisting force power checks. The Nemesis should have had a chance to oppose the weapon being pulled from his hands. The player would have had to use Discipline, and the Nemesis would've used Athletics, or if they're force-sensitive, Discipline (your choice). For the jetpack and airspeeder, you could've allowed the opposed check to have been against the respective characters' Piloting (Planetary).
We did an opposed Discipline check.
Also, a force user in our group last night completely wrecked the combat with the Control upgrade of Move that allows you to disarm. How is this one supposed to work also? He used it to disarm the big bad Nemesis in the fight easily, since he has a 3 force dice force rating, and then he later ripped the jet pack off the same Nemesis, causing his to plummet to the ground and die. He later used it to cause an airspeeder that was hovering in the air to crash into a Minion group.
Remember three things:
1. Your the GM, the rules apply less to you ![]()
2. Destiny Points! When that weapon was ripped from the Nemesis hands flip one of those DP's to give him a backup. When that Jetpack was ripped off his back flip another DP, suddenly one of his mooks flys under him in a speeder and catches the falling Boss.
3. Any time a PC targets an important Nemesis with any kind of Force Power it should be an opposed check, in the case of Disarming I would have gone with PC's Discipline vs Nemesis Discipline or Athletics whichever is higher.
But you do have something else important now to work into the story. Move is a very obvious Force Power, there will have been witnesses. If you're playing in the OT era then there are huge bounties on the heads of anyone using the Force. So someone is going to try and cash in on those bounties, probably a lot more than one person. Not only do the Imps now know where these Force Users are they also have very good descriptions of each of them... That's bad news for your PC's expected lifetime.
And for the jet pack I would have piled on 4-5 setback dice, since the thing is literally strapped to his back. And when he fell, flipped a Destiny point to have him land on a marquee and fall into a fruit stand that cushioned his fall, because you have to respect the classics.
And now you have 2 seperate sources suggesting the same things! Hopefully this helps.
Okay, there are four total control upgrades for Heal/Harm. I'm going to do them left to right, top to bottom.
Control - Soothe/Leech:
Heal (Soothe) - When you heal the target, if you DON'T spend any Dark Side pips to activate the power, you heal both Wounds and Strain. So with the basic power, and Intellect of 3, and this Control upgrade, if you don't spend any Dark Side pips, you would heal the target 3 Wounds AND 3 Strain. This is easy to do if you're a Light-Side Force user, because you normally use Light Side pips to get your points, and have to spend a Destiny Point, strain, and take conflict to use Dark Side points, but it does mean that if you don't roll any Light Side pips, you can't heal strain as well as wounds.
Harm (Leech) - If you spend ANY Dark Side pips when using Harm, you heal Strain equal to the amount of wounds you deal to the target. This is easy for a Dark Side Force user, because they normally spend Dark Side pips anyway, but if you're a Light Side user and want to do this, you'll need to spend the Destiny Point and take the Strain and conflict to use this.
Control - Bolster/Drain:
Heal (Bolster) - Spend 1 extra Force Point when using the power (so at least 2: 1 to activate the Basic Power, 1 to activate this upgrade) and you can cure one target of any one of the following conditions: staggered, immobilized, disoriented. You can spend as many Force Points on this as you want. Say three of your buddies are staggered, and one of them is also disoriented. As long as they're all engaged to you, you can spend 1 Force Point to activate the power, 2 more to activate Magnitude to affect all of them, and then 4 more to remove their conditions (1 each for the three staggereds, and 1 for one guy who's disoriented). You'll need to have a high Force Rating to pull this off, but it makes you a beast at keeping your party going.
Harm (Drain) - Spend 1 extra Force Point when using the power to heal someone you are engaged with a number of wounds equal to the damage you deal. So with an Intellect of 3, you can spend 1 Force Point to deal 3 damage and 1 more to heal yourself 3 Wounds. You can heal multiple people like this, but you need to spend a Force Point per person healed. And, while it doesn't say so in the description, I would hazard a guess that you shouldn't be able to heal the person you just Harmed. Cause that's like...wrong.
Control - Expertise
This one works the same for Heal and Harm - the amount of damage you heal/inflict increases by your ranks in Medicine. There is no cost for doing this, it's automatic once you've bought the upgrade. So for our hypothetical character we've been using with Intellect 3, if that person also as 2 ranks in Medicine, they now Heal 5 Wounds with Heal, and inflict 5 Wounds with Harm.
Control - Restore/Inflict
Heal (Restore) - When you're healing someone who has a Critical Injury, you can choose to roll a Hard Medicine check along with rolling your Force dice. If you fail it doesn't matter, you can still heal the target's wounds, but if you succeed, you can heal any one Critical Injury they have. This only applies to one target if you're using Magnitude to heal more than one person, but I would say a Triumph on the attempt would allow you to heal another person's Injury, or possibly an additional Injury on the original target.
Harm (Inflict) - When harming someone, you can choose to roll an opposed Medicine vs. Resilience check against them along with rolling your Force dice. If you fail it doesn't matter, you still inflict the normal number of Wounds, but if you succeed, you roll on the Critical Injury table and give them a Critical Injury. For every 2 advantage, you can add +10 to your result.
Also, a force user in our group last night completely wrecked the combat with the Control upgrade of Move that allows you to disarm. How is this one supposed to work also? He used it to disarm the big bad Nemesis in the fight easily, since he has a 3 force dice force rating, and then he later ripped the jet pack off the same Nemesis, causing his to plummet to the ground and die. He later used it to cause an airspeeder that was hovering in the air to crash into a Minion group.
Remember three things:
1. Your the GM, the rules apply less to you
2. Destiny Points! When that weapon was ripped from the Nemesis hands flip one of those DP's to give him a backup. When that Jetpack was ripped off his back flip another DP, suddenly one of his mooks flys under him in a speeder and catches the falling Boss.
3. Any time a PC targets an important Nemesis with any kind of Force Power it should be an opposed check, in the case of Disarming I would have gone with PC's Discipline vs Nemesis Discipline or Athletics whichever is higher.
But you do have something else important now to work into the story. Move is a very obvious Force Power, there will have been witnesses. If you're playing in the OT era then there are huge bounties on the heads of anyone using the Force. So someone is going to try and cash in on those bounties, probably a lot more than one person. Not only do the Imps now know where these Force Users are they also have very good descriptions of each of them... That's bad news for your PC's expected lifetime.
I have been thinking of having some imperials go after the force users for displaying their force powers and lightsabers occasionally. Do any of you have suggestions on NPC's from the bestiary that would be good for this, like inquisitor-types? Besides typical imp authorities.
Okay, there are four total control upgrades for Heal/Harm. I'm going to do them left to right, top to bottom.
Control - Soothe/Leech:
Heal (Soothe) - When you heal the target, if you DON'T spend any Dark Side pips to activate the power, you heal both Wounds and Strain. So with the basic power, and Intellect of 3, and this Control upgrade, if you don't spend any Dark Side pips, you would heal the target 3 Wounds AND 3 Strain. This is easy to do if you're a Light-Side Force user, because you normally use Light Side pips to get your points, and have to spend a Destiny Point, strain, and take conflict to use Dark Side points, but it does mean that if you don't roll any Light Side pips, you can't heal strain as well as wounds.
Harm (Leech) - If you spend ANY Dark Side pips when using Harm, you heal Strain equal to the amount of wounds you deal to the target. This is easy for a Dark Side Force user, because they normally spend Dark Side pips anyway, but if you're a Light Side user and want to do this, you'll need to spend the Destiny Point and take the Strain and conflict to use this.
Control - Bolster/Drain:
Heal (Bolster) - Spend 1 extra Force Point when using the power (so at least 2: 1 to activate the Basic Power, 1 to activate this upgrade) and you can cure one target of any one of the following conditions: staggered, immobilized, disoriented. You can spend as many Force Points on this as you want. Say three of your buddies are staggered, and one of them is also disoriented. As long as they're all engaged to you, you can spend 1 Force Point to activate the power, 2 more to activate Magnitude to affect all of them, and then 4 more to remove their conditions (1 each for the three staggereds, and 1 for one guy who's disoriented). You'll need to have a high Force Rating to pull this off, but it makes you a beast at keeping your party going.
Harm (Drain) - Spend 1 extra Force Point when using the power to heal someone you are engaged with a number of wounds equal to the damage you deal. So with an Intellect of 3, you can spend 1 Force Point to deal 3 damage and 1 more to heal yourself 3 Wounds. You can heal multiple people like this, but you need to spend a Force Point per person healed. And, while it doesn't say so in the description, I would hazard a guess that you shouldn't be able to heal the person you just Harmed. Cause that's like...wrong.
Control - Expertise
This one works the same for Heal and Harm - the amount of damage you heal/inflict increases by your ranks in Medicine. There is no cost for doing this, it's automatic once you've bought the upgrade. So for our hypothetical character we've been using with Intellect 3, if that person also as 2 ranks in Medicine, they now Heal 5 Wounds with Heal, and inflict 5 Wounds with Harm.
Control - Restore/Inflict
Heal (Restore) - When you're healing someone who has a Critical Injury, you can choose to roll a Hard Medicine check along with rolling your Force dice. If you fail it doesn't matter, you can still heal the target's wounds, but if you succeed, you can heal any one Critical Injury they have. This only applies to one target if you're using Magnitude to heal more than one person, but I would say a Triumph on the attempt would allow you to heal another person's Injury, or possibly an additional Injury on the original target.
Harm (Inflict) - When harming someone, you can choose to roll an opposed Medicine vs. Resilience check against them along with rolling your Force dice. If you fail it doesn't matter, you still inflict the normal number of Wounds, but if you succeed, you roll on the Critical Injury table and give them a Critical Injury. For every 2 advantage, you can add +10 to your result.
Thanks!
Back of the FaD core has a fantastic step by step guide to making Nemesis (edit: Nemesis Inquisitors that is)
Edited by RichardbuxtonIs the inquisition still around in the default time setting of the game?
Absolutely, many are trained by Vader himself, often on a world in the Deep Core. Some are powerful Force Users, others are something else. Use the rules as guidelines though, if you feel they need a bit of extra of something then by all means give it to them.
Also if possible get your hands on a copy of the AoR GM screen, the accompanying booklet has some fantastic rules on pairing groups of minions with Nemesis/PC characters, it can significantly increase the survivability of you Inquisitor.
Also, a force user in our group last night completely wrecked the combat with the Control upgrade of Move that allows you to disarm. How is this one supposed to work also? He used it to disarm the big bad Nemesis in the fight easily, since he has a 3 force dice force rating, and then he later ripped the jet pack off the same Nemesis, causing his to plummet to the ground and die. He later used it to cause an airspeeder that was hovering in the air to crash into a Minion group.
Is the inquisition still around in the default time setting of the game?
In terms of official canon, we don't really know. Dave Filoni has said that since we (thus far) haven't seen Inquisitors in the time frame of the original movies, he's figuring they were either phased out or wiped out. Granted, it's easy for him to say that as he doesn't have to wrangle a vast assortment of Force users that are bouncing around the galaxy that your average FaD game entails.
But for your games, absolutely the Inquisitors would still be around. The power structure may have changed from the time of Rebels, such as using the old EU/Legends Inquisitorius ranking system, where an agent was Inquisitor (Insert Name) as opposed to Xth Brother/Sister, and not required to use those spin-sabers or dress in all-black combat suits.
To be honest, I've found the Inquisitors to be a great villain to use in the Dark Times/Rebellion Era, as they are often highly skilled Force users and trained to wield a lightsaber, making them excellent foils for any aspiring Jedi in the party.
Edited by Donovan MorningfireAlso, a force user in our group last night completely wrecked the combat with the Control upgrade of Move that allows you to disarm. How is this one supposed to work also? He used it to disarm the big bad Nemesis in the fight easily, since he has a 3 force dice force rating, and then he later ripped the jet pack off the same Nemesis, causing his to plummet to the ground and die. He later used it to cause an airspeeder that was hovering in the air to crash into a Minion group.
In addition to rolling a sufficient number of Force Pips to activate the power plus any needed upgrades:
Disarming an Opponent should be an Opposed Check (Most likely a Discipline vs Athletics) see pg 283 F&D Resisting Force Power Checks. Additionally because all of your examples are Combat checks any ranks of Adversary the Nemesis had would apply. This doesn't mean the PC couldn't still succeed but it's not going to be as easy as you have implied in your post.
As for the Jet Pack, well you can't just rip a Jet pack off without throwing the wearer along with it. Jet Pack harnesses are designed to keep the person attached under a great deal of force (no pun intended) of flying and such so those straps aren't going to rip unless you are tearing them apart. Again, it would be possible but it wouldn't be a single application as you'd have to tear at least three (each arm and waist) individually, all of which should require Opposed rolls based on what made sense. And yes because it's directly affecting the Nemesis any ranks of Adversary would apply. If the Player chooses to just throw the Nemesis to the ground it would likely be a Discipline vs Resistance + a number of Setbacks to represent the power of the Jet Pack + Ranks of Adversary.
In the case of the Airspeeder it's a Combat roll with the PC using the speeder as an improvised Ranged weapon so I'd call it an unskilled Ranged Attack so a strait Agility roll against whatever range the speeder was from the PC to hit the Minion group. If the Pilot was a Nemesis then it would be an Opposed roll against their Piloting Skill + Setbacks as appropriate.
I'm surprised BTW this hasn't come up before with your group as it should take quite a few sessions to get to a Force Rating of 3. No offense but I think you need to re-read the RAW because if you've missed this you've likely missed quite a few rules that may be negatively affecting your game.
Edited by FuriousGreg