Fly Casual page 74 - "If the information in a captain's BoSS datapad does not match BoSS's records, he is in big trouble."

What kind of big trouble we talking? Something like a Class 3 (EotE p385)? Worse? Better?

On the other hand, if the BoSS datapad hasn't been altered but doesn't match the current situation (different captain, etc), what kind of trouble is that? Maybe a Class 4?

Whatever the GM's plot says it is.

Vague, yet surprisingly unhelpful.

I would say that, at the very least, the captain and crew would be detained and the ship subject to a thorough search for contraband. If there was nothing untoward going on and data was just out of date, the captain would be required to pay a hefty fine and make sure his information is up to date from then on.

If they find evidence of something illegal, then several years of imprisonment should be expected.

That is up to you. It is your Galaxy!

I think it would depend on precisely which and how much information is "off". If we're talking about minor tings, like a weapon emplacement having been changed without filing the appropriate paperwork you're probably looking at a fine and a black mark on the captain's record. Same thing with a hyperdrive upgrade not being noted, and so on.

However, if something major is wrong, such as a different captain/owner, then I assume that in most "civilized" ports that would trigger a major investigation. Specifically because this could easily mean that the ship is stolen, and piracy is a very serious crime in the Empire. So you're talking about the ship being impounded until a thorough investigation is complete, including a top-to-bottom search, an extensive background check on the captain and crew and exhaustive interrogations of everyone involved.

I think it also depends on the ingenuity of the players and the skills and talents of the PCs, and how bribable or inexperienced the inspectors might be.

I can imagine all sorts of hijinks ensuing!

At the very least, the ship would be impounded, the crew arrested, and a full investigation would ensue. Remember, not even Palpatine messes with BoSS!

In the Outer Rims (or any of the Rims) you are more likely to get away with a bribe. ..

BoSS records are like the car registration system in the US. Out of date records (such as names not matching, expired dates, etc...) are civil issues. Which means fines and, at worst, confiscation of the property in question. Now, that might just be impounding until the fines/fees are paid off, with a time limit before the ship in question is sold off in auction to recoup the costs.

For things like truly falsified papers or altered signatures (similar to swapping out a VIN in a car or putting on license plates from another car), that becomes a criminal matter. Welcome to jail (might not be very long, like a year at most) with time dependent on the severity of the offenses and whether the ship in question is suspected in other offenses..

BoSS records are like the car registration system in the US. Out of date records (such as names not matching, expired dates, etc...) are civil issues. Which means fines and, at worst, confiscation of the property in question. Now, that might just be impounding until the fines/fees are paid off, with a time limit before the ship in question is sold off in auction to recoup the costs.

For things like truly falsified papers or altered signatures (similar to swapping out a VIN in a car or putting on license plates from another car), that becomes a criminal matter. Welcome to jail (might not be very long, like a year at most) with time dependent on the severity of the offenses and whether the ship in question is suspected in other offenses..

Was about to post, but this is pretty much what I was going to say, as it's a **** good comparison.

Now granted, where you are in the Star Wars 'verse when this infraction happens can alter the situation a little. If it happens in a Core World, especially the "criminal matter" portion, then say hello to a galaxy of trouble as the weight of Imperial law comes crashing down on your head. Even the "civil crimes" portion can be bad if the customs inspector decides to be strict about the fact the BoSS records don't match up, especially if they're incensed that you tried to bribe them..

Now, if the same situation happens at an Outer Rim spaceport where there's not as much Imperial presence (think Tatooine before and well after the events of ANH), the civil crimes part you might be able to get overlooked with a promise to get the paperwork straightened out ASAP. The criminal crimes part will probably still get you into serious trouble, but you might be more likely to bribe your way out of trouble than you would on worlds either closer to the Core or that have a strong Imperial presence.

Thanks all. Yes, I know it's up to GM and the plot -- but if I knew exactly every detail and the plot was all complete and ready, why would I even ask? ;-)

I could use some ballpark example figures for fines or bribes if anyone has time. For example, say the turret and engines have been upgraded a little, and we're near Rodia or Ryloth. Nothing illegal on board YET.

It is a fictional world that exists in your mind. Sure, pop culture and established fiction do exist, but these little things would be unnecessary to have set rules and limits for! No need to railroad our narrative creativity. Make Ryloth your own, make the Officers and other npc's your own. Make up a bribe limit for your BoSS officers or ISB agents. If you say it, your players will believe it. Each Officer might have their own view on bribes. But If you feel it makes it easier, just think that out in the Rims, anything goes. Imperials out in the Rims are more likely to be motivated by less "imperial motives" than those in the core worlds and colonies...

Don't be afraid to let your players improvise, take narrative control at times or at least come with suggestions on the fly. You don't have to do all the work on your own or in advance.

It is a fictional world that exists in your mind.....Make up a bribe limit for your BoSS officers or ISB agents.....You don't have to do all the work on your own or in advance.

I see unhelpful posts like this in forums like these a lot, and it always baffles me. Qeyleb isn't trying to do all the work themselves; they're asking us for help.

And we all know that it's a fictional world that exists in our mind, and that we can make up anything we want. Presumably, if Qeyleb wanted to make up their own figure without anyone else's thoughts or input, they would have. When your input is asked for, saying "You don't need my input, make something up" is spectacularly unhelpful.

Despite your assurances to make each NPC their own, I'm guessing most people would be thrown if an Imperial official solicited a bribe of 5 credits to look the other way; or a bribe of 500 million credits. Neither of those numbers are reasonable, but which numbers are most reasonable is a valid subject for discussion (with the understanding that yes, these numbers are fictional figures that exist in our mind).

I don't know exactly what similar fines are in the real world, but my understanding is that minor, frequently occurring offenses like speeding tickets tend to be an annoying but still fairly trivial amount, say 100-200, and the prices escalate from their based on the rarity and severity of the occurrence. So I'd imagine fines of a few hundred credits to be reasonable for minor bureaucratic slip-ups, like filing the wrong landing papers, failing to follow some simple procedure, etc. Fines for more serious breaches, such as having your ship papers wrong in a more serious manner, could be several hundred credits to over a thousand. I'm imagining fines upwards of 1,500C wouldn't normally be handed out without some kind of accompanying criminal or misdemeanor charge. (Obviously, these numbers are ballpark estimates based on little to no relevant real life experience)

Of course, fines can be cumulative, so failure to update records of a minor turret modification could be a 200C fine (per turret), along with a 300C fine for failure to update records of hyperdrive alterations. Having multiple faults at once might incur another charge for more egregious failure to comply with the law, or fines might be backdated to the last noted record update, with interest charged accordingly. Also, what appears to be a single infraction (oops, we didn't update our hyperdrive modification) could actually turn out to be several separate violations (Failure to file notice of intended modifications, failure to record modifications of the Hyperdrive Motivator, failure to record modifications of the Drive Thrusters, failure to record modifications of the Compressor Cooling Array, lack of updated safety certificate, penalty for presenting outdated documents to an Imperial official, and failure to declare outstanding ship issues upon inspection). That's 180C, 90C, 90C, 90C, 265C, 425C, and a 65C fine, because bureaucracy hates you, and also has oddly specific numbers for fines. Of course, a reasonable officer might waive some of those, or not even think to apply them, but another might be strictly by the book, might be keeping half of them herself, or might just dislike you. If you're trying to offer a minor disincentive to your players without financially crippling them, making them pay a small fine, but have to go through a nightmare of paperwork and officious officers to do so, might get more of a reaction than simply taking 1,000C and being done with it.

As far as bribes are concerned, their size will vary mostly based on the amount of danger to the official. Somewhere like Tatooine, an Imperial is going to have to be highly indiscreet to get in any trouble for taking bribes, so they probably take them more frequently and in smaller numbers. 50 or 100C pays for a nice evening out, which represents a suitable payoff for simply forgetting to register some minor penalty that nobody really cares about. On a Core World, the paperwork is scrutinized a lot more carefully, so that same officer would be taking a much bigger risk, and would require a bribe suitable to cover the risk of being discovered and reprimanded. In this way, the greater the severity of the issue and the bigger the bribe, the more similar the official's reaction: if you are in possession of a stolen ship with a warrant out for you, anyone who looks the other way is risking their job, or worse, and is going to need a huge payoff. But if you just want to avoid having another mark on your license after forgetting to register your new repulsorlifts, a backwater official might look the other way for next to nothing, because there's no risk, while on Coruscant, the risk would be greater for the officer than for you, and the bribe might have to be to high for you to justify.

I don't know exactly what similar fines are in the real world, but my understanding is that minor, frequently occurring offenses like speeding tickets tend to be an annoying but still fairly trivial amount, say 100-200, and the prices escalate from their based on the rarity and severity of the occurrence.

So, there is an interesting twist here, which many people might not be aware of. In some jurisdictions, traffic fines can be based on your annual income. IIRC, the CEO of Nokia got a huge multi-million Euro traffic fine levied against him, when the police in Finland caught him speeding.

I’d imagine that there might be some jurisdictions in SWRPG that might do something similar — maybe base the fine on the retail value of the vehicle.

Or maybe there are some jurisdictions in SWRPG that are the equivalent of the Selma, TX police force, and their world-renowned tendency to fine for the most trivial of infractions, and to levy the heaviest fines possible — that’s their primary source of income to fund their government.

All of two interstate exits are within Selma territory, and yet the only traffic stops I’ve ever seen or heard of anywhere close to that part of San Antonio are from Selma police.

On the broader issue in this thread, the problem is that the topic itself is so broad that it would be almost impossible to provide any specific guidance. Sure, we can talk about anything we want, to any degree we want, but that is all theory, and it is unlikely to help the OP.

So far as I know, there simply isn’t any prior experience or knowledge in this area, not within FFG’s books, not within Lucasfilm/Disney Canon, not within the very extensive EU that has been written, and not within any game I’ve been in or heard about.

So, there’s just not much there to go on.

GAThrawn, I'm Hurt...

The thing is that there aren't any true answer for these little, less important things. It is up to each GM and gaming group to come up with these things and to fill in the blanks. Sometimes it can help to hear this from other experienced gamers or just fellow games in general.

But ok, if I'm being an unhelpful nerfherder... a bribe could be between 500 to 25 000 credits depending on the situation, location and cargo. A really big "bribe" wouldn't even have to be credits or rare and valuable gear, but the characters might have to take on more obligation of some kind. That would be more interesting!

I think at this point most of us get the "make it up" bit - and I think it's wholly fair for someone making things up to ask their peers for a little guidance. Why, even Tramp Freighters doesn't have a table and that book has tables for all sorts of things.

I think at this point most of us get the "make it up" bit - and I think it's wholly fair for someone making things up to ask their peers for a little guidance. Why, even Tramp Freighters doesn't have a table and that book has tables for all sorts of things.

True enough, but, if the consequences are meant to be felt by the characters/players, that can vary greatly from group to group. One campaign I'm in, the party is so flush with credits that none of the fines mentioned here would make the group blink. Impounding the ship would just make the characters shrug and say, "Ok, I'll buy another one." Meanwhile, another campaign, same GM, many of the same players, many of the consequences specifically spelled out would make a dent (or a hole) in our finances.

So, the best answer is, "What would impact them and make sense in context?"

So, the best answer is, "What would impact them and make sense in context?"

But of course, but the bribe doesn't really flux. So we throw a fence around it.

THIS is good input and discussion, thanks all! Yes, I looked before asking and there weren't tables and hard rules anywhere to be found, so I asked for some general ideas.

I'm sure we won't have it come up especially often unless players make some stupid decisions, but I like thinking through what makes a plausible port/planet/sector, and an inspection may come up soon in the plot. Gives us good reasons to stick to certain areas or behave specific ways. One player already wanted to go break in to a BoSS facility/database to clean their record; another was sure there wouldn't be any trouble if we stick to shadowports. More things to roll about! More uses for Knowledge: Outer Rim / Underworld, and Streetwise and all the social skills.

It really is situational, isn't it? A world like Alderaan would probably be more forgiving and lenient for transgressions, Courscant is so busy that a great deal will get overlooked and only get the minimum attention since the customs agent has 65 more ships to process before lunch. Tatooine might be strict and enforce the maximum penalties, but for a much more reasonable handling fee the agent will be willing to process the proper paperwork to make the ship legal.

How much are the fines? Depends on the infraction. If the tabs are expired, it might be 500 bucks. If you have an unlisted Wave Motion Gun mounted to the bow and a unlicensed Gravity Well Generator installed in the back, it'll probably run you jail time, impounding of the ship and a significant penalty.

I think at this point most of us get the "make it up" bit - and I think it's wholly fair for someone making things up to ask their peers for a little guidance. Why, even Tramp Freighters doesn't have a table and that book has tables for all sorts of things.

I absolutely agree! At the same time I think a lot of gamers, including myself sometimes, needs a little nudging or encouragement or even an ok-signal to take the game and the world into their own hands at times.

For a lot of gamers, especially coming from other less narrative systems, other kinds of games or who are just new to roleplay gaming in general, it can be a hard habit to break or hard to get used to the idea that you should

make up rules, bend the rules or even ignore the rules if it benefits the story. It can be a big step to break the canon or to make an established fictional world your own. It has been for me at times, maybe that is why I like to remind myself and others these things. Of course more hard and crunchy advice are useful and more than ok too! I think these forums should have room for both

Personally I feel it would take away the flexibility of this great game to start having set rules and lists for these things.

Other gamey advice: let the narrative dice guide you when figuring out the "trouble" that might follow or the kinds of bribes you might have to use. Let players role and then, together, use the results of the role to figure that out.

Another great part of this system you can use is, as mentioned, obligation! Having new obligations hanging over you because of a failed(or successful) atempt at a bribe, only makes the game so much more interesting.