What exactly is this thread about?

Post 66 in this thread

[Not sure I understand this thread has there been a clamouring for a tabletop troops based Game, 40k X wing or do we want unpainted plastic ships from FFG in GW quality?Do we not already have something in this vein( on a smaller scale) with Imperial Assault?

Yes. Two or three times a year the topic of FFG doing Star Wars mass battles game comes up and the threads always get lots of posts, both for and against. Generally the desire is for a ground game in the same scale as x-wing so the models would be cross compatible.

As for this thread specifically. It is difficult to tell the original intent because JBR7 tends to create threads by just ejaculating words into the computer without any explanation (or coherent sentance structure), but after reading the thread I am pretty sure the point he was failing to make was

"you guys know how a bunch of us keep clamouring for a SW mass battles ground game? Well this quote from the new article indicates that it isn't going to happen because FFG seems to think they have Star Wars covered. So we should probably stop speculating about something that is never going to happen and concentrate on the new toys that we ARE getting."

At least, I THINK that was his point.

This was the space where I had a grumpy comment about the fighting a few posts back.

It has been edited. The grumpy comment is gone, the space is pristine, and I have used the text area to grow smileys to use for the next time zombies invade my garden.

Whether it's an olive branch or an oak club, putting wood on the fire will keep it going.

So where are these enormous chunks? Why are most armies unpainted

Well hold on, if you're going to insist that most armies are unpainted (and we're not just talking about 40K, or armies that are temporarily unpainted, but armies that remain unpainted in the larger wargaming community for a protracted period of time) then you'd better start by backing it up. In my experience the vast majority of wargamers enjoy painting and enjoy putting together models and converting them so that their force, and sometimes every model in it, is entirely unique to them. One needs only look at the volume of painting blogs on a site like dakka-dakka to see the popularity. There are nearly twice as many posts in the painting and modelling section of dakkadakka alone , than there are on the entire X Wing forum. Don't forget to factor in sites like Lead Adventure, Warseer, WWPD, TMP etc. Heaps and heaps and heaps of people actually enjoy modelling and painting.

Sure, there ARE hobbiests who are mostly in it for the painting. And there are certainly some who gain equal enjoyment from both the modeling and the game play. But anecdotal evidence over the years suggest that they are quite the minority, and it can't be argued that the modelling aspects of wargaming have kept large swathes of potential customers out of the hobby.

In my experience most gamers enjoy sitting down and getting in a good painting session.

Your experience doesn't match mine, at all. I've been a dedicated wargamer for 30 years. I am one of the stubborn ones who always insisted on painting his own stuff. I currently have 4 1/2 armies painted for Warhammer fantasy (all around 5k in size), three large forces for Bolt Action, 10 different posses for Legends of the Old West, 3 forces for pirate gaming, a bunch of modern/zombie stuff, and a bunch of pulp stuff. I'm in the definite minority of wargamers. Most wargamers that I have met see painting their armies as a chore to be overcome, rather than something enjoyable.

I ran one of the largest IndyGTs (Warhammer Fantasy tournaments) in the US for 15 years. We had paint scoring, with a bonus if you painted your own army. Even in this format, we probably had 1/3 of the participants every year who paid someone else to paint their armies. We always had a significant number of armies that were not complete (roughly 20%). Many of hem had roughly the same amount unpainted year after year. Some of the players attended year after year with the same primed black armies. They just wanted to play.

IME, the wargamers who really like painting are in the small minority. If this wasn't true, there wouldn't be such a healthy market for painting services and pro-painted armies on online sites like eBay. That market is huge. Most wargamers just want to play.

For this reason, enforcing a completely painted rule for WHFB/40k is controversial enough, but trying to enforce "all models must be painted by the player" is well-nigh impossible. The same issue exists with historicals, FWIW.

I always painted my stuff but most of my opponents didn't even bother to do an undercoat, hell most were half assed when constructed.

After I quit 40k I got into a slump and stopped painting all together, but recently I got into fow and painted my American force and rediscovered the joy of turning bare plastic into a little work of art.

I don't get how people could possibly confuse this

with this

...or prefer, for that matter

I'd like a 40k style game for Star Wars. Mostly bc i want to see mass storm troopers with walkers marching across a board.

a very FFG feel to it that not everyone likes. The special movement tool, the special dice, the 'top heavy' approach to the rules...

I saw an interview with some FFG people once where they were saying that (unlike GW) they did market research and discovered that the custom dice and special templates and such are actually far more popular than Tahoe measures and regular dice with tables. People like having everything needed to play included.

Sure, but they aren't marketing to the wargamer crowd. They're marketing to the board gaming/card gaming crowd.EDIT: I would also say that while custom dice and tape measures are popular, the GENERIC custom dice and tape measures are the most popular. Like D6s with Rebel logos for the sixes, or a tapemeasure shaped like Vaders helemt, as opposed to the funky symbol dice that FFG use.

" https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/600x620/99230199005_MunitorumTapeMeasureNEW01.jpg"

But here comes Joe with his happy go lucky baby talking silly accent, flaming people everyday and we all cheer him on because he has cute spaceship emoticons. Lousy post eh Joe? Better flame em with your spaceships! Anyone who disagrees had better be prepared to be labelled a dumb meanie.

Hey just because we're hiding our intent behind a cheesy attitude doesn't change that it's bad.

I'd give this two likes but the forums won't let me.

I'll like it for you. I like Joe, but sometimes he goes too far with pushing particular people instead of keeping it general.

... now stop griping about a 40k version of X-Wing and be happy!

Naturally, these different types of thrills lend themselves to all sorts of different games. Just among the offerings from Fantasy Flight Games, you have the capital ship battles of Star Wars™: Armada , the mission-focused ground combats of Imperial Assault , the character-driven storytelling enabled by three different roleplaying games, and the squad-based dogfights of X-Wing™ . You can even recreate the entire Galactic Civil War with Star Wars™: Rebellion . These games provide a wealth of different play experiences from which you can choose, each of which focuses on a different sort of Star Wars thrill.

Nice and sparkling clear... yet?

Not sure I understand this thread has there been a clamouring for a tabletop troops based Game, 40k X wing or do we want unpainted plastic ships from FFG in GW quality?

Do we not already have something in this vein( on a smaller scale) with Imperial Assault?

Basically I was highlighting this recent FFG guest article because it summed up how well FFG has the myraid of STAR WARS gaming possibilities covered now. There was a little bit of a regulare noise for FFG to make a full on X-WING 40K styled game in the first two years of X-WING and the topic pops up once in a while still.

The reason for my topic was just to smile and thank FFG for being awesome and to kindly in my own view bring the whole subject to rest.

I do like reading Crab's topics about still wanting an X-EPIC-40K styled game still...

I'd love a star wars 40k range of models.

Using 40Ked1 works for me, so really only the models are required.

... now stop griping about a 40k version of X-Wing and be happy!

Naturally, these different types of thrills lend themselves to all sorts of different games. Just among the offerings from Fantasy Flight Games, you have the capital ship battles of Star Wars™: Armada , the mission-focused ground combats of Imperial Assault , the character-driven storytelling enabled by three different roleplaying games, and the squad-based dogfights of X-Wing™ . You can even recreate the entire Galactic Civil War with Star Wars™: Rebellion . These games provide a wealth of different play experiences from which you can choose, each of which focuses on a different sort of Star Wars thrill.

Nice and sparkling clear... yet?

Couldn't you just use the Imperial Assault rules, and convert range and movement to inches?

I don't think so.

... now stop griping about a 40k version of X-Wing and be happy!

Naturally, these different types of thrills lend themselves to all sorts of different games. Just among the offerings from Fantasy Flight Games, you have the capital ship battles of Star Wars™: Armada , the mission-focused ground combats of Imperial Assault , the character-driven storytelling enabled by three different roleplaying games, and the squad-based dogfights of X-Wing™ . You can even recreate the entire Galactic Civil War with Star Wars™: Rebellion . These games provide a wealth of different play experiences from which you can choose, each of which focuses on a different sort of Star Wars thrill.

Nice and sparkling clear... yet?

Couldn't you just use the Imperial Assault rules, and convert range and movement to inches?

I do not know a lot about how IA works. The way I play LAND WAR is just X-WING EPIC with makers for movements over ground forces, and some ARMADA common sense added into it all.

But here comes Joe with his happy go lucky baby talking silly accent, flaming people everyday and we all cheer him on because he has cute spaceship emoticons. Lousy post eh Joe? Better flame em with your spaceships! Anyone who disagrees had better be prepared to be labelled a dumb meanie.

Hey just because we're hiding our intent behind a cheesy attitude doesn't change that it's bad.

I'd give this two likes but the forums won't let me.

I'll like it for you. I like Joe, but sometimes he goes too far with pushing particular people instead of keeping it general.

Well once in a while sure...

Grown ass men and such.

If you want to be one of the drive by haters on here and scream foul about FFG and their products... screw you!

I ain't for it.

NAH...

Couldn't you just use the Imperial Assault rules, and convert range and movement to inches?

A guy on the IA boards has done that. They converted 1 square in IA = 2" on a 6'x4' 40K table because, well. Most IA naps are only about 16 squares across and an 8 square shot is pretty long range. He said it worked reasonably well, but that some mobility special abilities became much more powerful with the free form terrain.

TLDR, yes, you can do that and it works decently for a SW 40k. To do a SW epic ground game, with 6mm scale (or 10, in JBR7's case) AT-ATs and speeders and such you would need something else.

But here comes Joe with his happy go lucky baby talking silly accent, flaming people everyday and we all cheer him on because he has cute spaceship emoticons. Lousy post eh Joe? Better flame em with your spaceships! Anyone who disagrees had better be prepared to be labelled a dumb meanie.

Hey just because we're hiding our intent behind a cheesy attitude doesn't change that it's bad.

I'd give this two likes but the forums won't let me.

I'll like it for you. I like Joe, but sometimes he goes too far with pushing particular people instead of keeping it general.

Well once in a while sure...

Grown ass men and such.

If you want to be one of the drive by haters on here and scream foul about FFG and their products... screw you!

I ain't for it.

NAH...

Well, I'll be the first to admit that I'm a hypocrite for calling you out for calling other people out, so my apologies.

I don't hate FFG's products, but I don't force others to think as I do. They can have a dissenting opinion if they want. That's what a forum is about. Even you, Joe, have mentioned how you're not a slave to FFG's rules. That's quite a different opinion from most people, and as I recall, nobody flamed you for it. I think your enthusiasm for the game is a breath of fresh air for this community, but sometimes I can't deny that it feels like you are bullying people. You don't see it, probably, and maybe you feel it's good-natured fun, but those recipients of your "Bad Posts" aren't laughing at being ridiculed for their opinions on the public forum. I just want to see the happy Joe that plays with his ships the way he wants to play with them; not the angry Joe that blasts people who don't play like he does. This game is big enough for everyone.

[And for all you non-Joes reading this post, the same goes for you as well!]

But here comes Joe with his happy go lucky baby talking silly accent, flaming people everyday and we all cheer him on because he has cute spaceship emoticons. Lousy post eh Joe? Better flame em with your spaceships! Anyone who disagrees had better be prepared to be labelled a dumb meanie.

Hey just because we're hiding our intent behind a cheesy attitude doesn't change that it's bad.

I'd give this two likes but the forums won't let me.

I'll like it for you. I like Joe, but sometimes he goes too far with pushing particular people instead of keeping it general.

Well once in a while sure...

Grown ass men and such.

If you want to be one of the drive by haters on here and scream foul about FFG and their products... screw you!

I ain't for it.

NAH...

Well, I'll be the first to admit that I'm a hypocrite for calling you out for calling other people out, so my apologies.

I don't hate FFG's products, but I don't force others to think as I do. They can have a dissenting opinion if they want. That's what a forum is about. Even you, Joe, have mentioned how you're not a slave to FFG's rules. That's quite a different opinion from most people, and as I recall, nobody flamed you for it. I think your enthusiasm for the game is a breath of fresh air for this community, but sometimes I can't deny that it feels like you are bullying people. You don't see it, probably, and maybe you feel it's good-natured fun, but those recipients of your "Bad Posts" aren't laughing at being ridiculed for their opinions on the public forum. I just want to see the happy Joe that plays with his ships the way he wants to play with them; not the angry Joe that blasts people who don't play like he does. This game is big enough for everyone.

[And for all you non-Joes reading this post, the same goes for you as well!]

I would be happy to see a more tactically oriented, mass combat game. 40k-ish, or Memoir '44-ish; I'm not too concerned about it scaling to X-wing, as it would be a very different animal. Judging by Rebellion, I think 1:72 is about as small as it could go while still retaining distinctive features to infantry models; even at that, I'd be happy with an Armada-ish sliding scale, but I could go either way on that.

Like the now defunct Battles of Westeros, it'd be great to see the leaders appear mostly as command and morale modifiers, with a few "rogue" units, like Luke running around trying to take out AT-ATs all by himself.

Do I expect it to happen? Not really. But, Rebellion provides lots of little figures, and I think the scale is pretty close to the MicroMachines figures, making leaders accessible... Things to ponder.

Problem is with 40k, literally charature.

X wings have charature. Tie Fighters have charature. Most people might not say the same thing about 40k, due to the shear volume of factions.

The planes would just be stats, with the lightning being a slightly weaker thunderbolt but also faster. Its not a "y wing to a wing" comparison, but more one of stats.

Probably primarly because the source material comes from literal stats and not movies.

Okay, okay, the thunderhawk has charature. And the manta. And the tigershark. (Friken dual railcannons man, ***** op nurf nurf nurf nurf).

But oversaturation like the EU stuff we were getting can stagentent things I think.

Edit: oh, this is a 5 page topic not a 1 page topic, whoops better start reading.

Gotta disagree there, I think. Apart from the endless variation of Space Marines the 40K factions just drip character. That's the one thing they have going for them. You don't think of a given 40K unit as a specific set of stats because the stats are constantly being changed as new codexes and formations come out.