So!

I'm starting to get decisions from players I will GM, about what careers they want.

One guy will be a Warrior/Starfighter Ace.

Now, somewhere in the book it says that maybe an X-Wing would be an adequate reward for a pilot type player, as the lightsaber would be to a Jedi.

But this is where it gets tricky, this guy is a Force-sensitive pilot, right.

And he says he wants to play a Peter Quill type character, which to me sounds perfectly awesome.

A pilot with a few extra skills he doesn't quite know about yet.

But if the story arc, and his actions, the missions I send them on, bring him close to a path where he might build a saber, how would you guys think this should go?

Like I'm thinking, since this guy is mainly a pilot, maybe he builds a slightly defective saber, for added roleplay value and to make it more realistic, balanced?

Maybe the saber has a chance of shutting off on him every X rounds or X amount of time in use, or something?

Should I not allow a Starfighter Ace character to build a saber at all?

What are you guys' thoughts here?

This is definitely a conversation you should have with the player. What is it that they want? What direction do they want to take their character? Is it a lightsaber, or a gnarly blaster of some kind?

I would not restrict the character's options arbitrarily. The lightsaber quest is kind of a big deal in F&D, or at least one aspect that the books are upfront about the possibility that every player might want to go for, and there's plenty of advice on it scattered about.

Like I'm thinking, since this guy is mainly a pilot, maybe he builds a slightly defective saber, for added roleplay value and to make it more realistic, balanced?

Maybe the saber has a chance of shutting off on him every X rounds or X amount of time in use, or something?

Just use the lightsaber crafting rules.

Hmmm. Ok so I should assume every character that's created using this book, no matter which career/spec they are, could build a saber at some point, provided they pay the cost (cross career skill costing +5 and all that)?

Because I've noticed only 1 out of the 3 specs in each career start with the Lightsaber skill.

Cool.

I'd see where the player / character goes with it, and leave your options open.

If he decides to focus on Force enhanced fighter piloting, then he probably won't even bother with a Saber. Maybe he'll just carry a blaster like any other pilot would. In which case there's no need to worry about it.

If he does decide to pursue a Saber as well, make him work for it. The instructions to craft the hilt aren't common by any means, even though it is just a mechanical device. So he's going to need to find the instructions somewhere (quest for a hidden Jedi archive, find a Holocron, or learn from a Jedi mentor). Then there's the fact that they need to find a crystal as well, which is the most important part. That's usually a quest in itself as well. Once they have the parts and the knowhow, just let them craft it normally. No reason to say that just because he's a pilot, he doesn't know how to put the thing together. By the time he's ready to assemble it, he will have earned the right.

Hmmm. Ok so I should assume every character that's created using this book, no matter which career/spec they are, could build a saber at some point, provided they pay the cost (cross career skill costing +5 and all that)?

Because I've noticed only 1 out of the 3 specs in each career start with the Lightsaber skill.

Not that big of a problem. Just make sure everyone has similar level of rewards for their chosen nitches. Don't make this about money and credits and how much a lightsabre is worth against an X Wing. Instead focus on the things the other PC's want to do and make sure they have as much of a chance to gain their "items" along side this character.

In theory if most of the PC's are from F&D most of them will all be building lightsabres anyway. And for the Starfighter option to be viable the other PC's will need ships too. So it's likely that most of the PC's will have both a ship and a lightsabre at some point. If the other PC's aren't Force users then they get whatever weapon/item/goal they seek.

There's no reason to give the PC a defective sabre. Just balance out the party rewards so that everyone is getting something they want too. The overall value to the character and player will be worth more than the in game credit value.

There's no reason to give the PC a defective sabre.

I mean unless they WANT one, for roleplaying richness purposes, right.

There's no reason to give the PC a defective sabre.

I mean unless they WANT one, for roleplaying richness purposes, right.

I've never viewed defective anything as rich roleplaying purposes. The dice system for this game does a better job of representing that aspect through threats and despair than handing a character a busted weapon and saying "role play how bad this is".

There's no reason to give the PC a defective sabre.

I mean unless they WANT one, for roleplaying richness purposes, right.

I've never viewed defective anything as rich roleplaying purposes. The dice system for this game does a better job of representing that aspect through threats and despair than handing a character a busted weapon and saying "role play how bad this is".

No? How about "Jury-rigged" ships in the old d20 or D6 SW systems? My players had a LOT of fun getting in trouble with their ships systems that broke down all the time and they had to fix it.

There's no reason to give the PC a defective sabre.

I mean unless they WANT one, for roleplaying richness purposes, right.

I've never viewed defective anything as rich roleplaying purposes. The dice system for this game does a better job of representing that aspect through threats and despair than handing a character a busted weapon and saying "role play how bad this is".

No? How about "Jury-rigged" ships in the old d20 or D6 SW systems? My players had a LOT of fun getting in trouble with their ships systems that broke down all the time and they had to fix it.

Yeah ...... as I said ..... I don't view them as good things to hand out and just say "role play this out". Besides this system handles the entire concept better anyway. Threat and despair represent when things go wrong or bad. The character is already going to have weapon problems based on just normal rolls as the GM and player decide the best way to interpret the dice. In this system there isn't a need to just hand a person a bad lightsabre and ask them to play out how horrible it is all the time. Just ..... use the dice that are already there.

Things naturally go wrong in this system due to the unique dice involved. They'll already be roleplaying that out. That and handing a player a bad lightsabre in no way balances out having a lightsabre and an X Wing.

Cinematically, Kylo Ren's saber is supposed to be flawed. The stupid little jets coming out the side were supposed to be exhausts for the excess energy it's generating. And the crystal is fractured or something, causing the blade to be so scratchy and rough instead of a well channeled beam of energy.

But mechanically, it's just like any other Lightsaber. It cuts through stuff, except other Sabers. There's little to be gained by imposing "jury rigged" penalties onto it, when the goal is just to add some narrative fluff.

Just let the player describe their Saber as they will. If they made it from a wingy bit of an X-Wing, then so be it. People will see them carrying around a wingy bit, until eventually they get into a fight and suddenly that wingy bit becomes much more deadly. No reason to assign undeserved penalties just b/c the character didn't go straight for a stereotypical Jedi Guardian role.

Yeah, that makes sense.

I wasn't thinking of it in terms of balance anymore, the faulty saber was the player's suggestion so I wanted to let him do that, but I guess the dice will already do a good job, you guys are right.

The most I would do to represent a faulty saber is add a setback or 2 on rolls with it. Or maybe just add the setbacks when it seems dramatically appropriate for it to malfunction. Remember, the GM always has to right to assign setbacks to any check, as long as you give reasons, and let your players argue out of them if they can.

Yeah. Cool, thank you!

I would say if he wants the Star fighter then only let him have a training Lightsaber instead of a regular light saber. That would give the appearance of lightsaber and also make it easier to upgrade when he can find a crystal.

In a post-Republic era the vast majority of force users are likely to have some career other than "jedi" first and foremost if for no other reason than as usual when the Empire gets in power it enslaves/exterminates force users who won't submit to getting Sithy. To be quite honest I'm going to be encouraging my players not to start off as Jedi classes and simply buy the access later on to help represent the fact that even if the force is present in your life, you haven't been trained t understand or channel it and have, much like Luke or child-Anakin, simply chalked it up to good reflexes, a level head or a nose for danger.

So to address some points: I wouldn't stop any player from playing a Whatever and adding on a force-user specialization later. Those initial classes represent the goals and lifestyles of the characters before they discovered the force, so point out to your player that getting a ship was character's lifelong dream first. So he may already be well on his way to earning it through various reputations and duties with those who may provide him with one, and his character would be aware of that. Going on a quest to build a lightsaber means taking time off from his duties that may impact his ability to get promoted and may even mean he'd have to completely leave the service, giving up his chances at getting a ship. This is still a generous take on the Force, as during an era with an extablished and active Jedi order he'd likely have to have given up his entire life just to get a shiny glow stick.

The quality of his saber (and his ship) should be representative of the time and energy that character has put into getting such a thing. If he slacks off in his duties to get a lightsaber, maybe he gets a ship, but it's a junky freighter, as his time away from "the job" has cost him a possible promotion or something. If he stays focused on his ship but attempts to squeeze in lightsaber time on the side then yes, give him a second-rate lightsaber or simply give him second-rate parts, showing his lack of dedication to getting the job done right.

If he's smart, he'll get his ship, then set off on a quest to get a lightsaber. That's what Luke did, and that's the sort of character your player seems to be designing.

There's a Jedi career? News to me.

I am troubled at the prior suggestion, OP, that only the specializations that have lightsaber as a skill should be allowed to have lightsabers (or at least perfectly working ones).

Anyone can train any skill, lightsaber included. Anyone can use any skill.

I wouldn't suggest kicking around with that at all, but especially when you're new to the system still.

I seem to remember a certain former slave having a light saber and a Starfighter (as well as a G-9) and another one having a light saber and an X-wing. Both hailed from Tattooine as I recall

There are no Jedi Careers in this system, only Force Users. The same rules are used for a Padawan Jedi, Gand Findsman, Dathomir Witch and people who have absolutely no idea their Force Sensetive.

The next point to think about is the Rarity system and the Restricted item Quality. An Ancient Sword is much rarer (8) than a Training Saber (6). This could represent the ease of finding raw materials as well as basic instructions on construction. The Training Saber is also unrestricted so possession whilst frowned upon is not automatically illegal, I would argue that the displaying the ability to use it would on the other hand be a one way ticket to an imperial prison mine. So you may change the rules and make getting theses things harder than RAW, but that's something you need to make your Players well aware of prior to beginning the campaign or spending a single point of XP.

One last thing to keep in mind is that the Force works its own way. It may be that the PC has never learnt to construct a Saber, but the Force guides their hands.

In a post-Republic era the vast majority of force users are likely to have some career other than "jedi" first and foremost if for no other reason than as usual when the Empire gets in power it enslaves/exterminates force users who won't submit to getting Sithy. To be quite honest I'm going to be encouraging my players not to start off as Jedi classes and simply buy the access later on to help represent the fact that even if the force is present in your life, you haven't been trained t understand or channel it and have, much like Luke or child-Anakin, simply chalked it up to good reflexes, a level head or a nose for danger.

Yeah only that if you're playing Force and Destiny you're automatically starting as a Force user. Also the Force careers are not Jedi careers. There is no such thing as a Jedi career. The Force and Destiny careers all represent different ways of using the Force. And they also represent being able to do so without formal training. Sure characters can start in other careers if they want but there is also nothing wrong with starting out as a Force user either. The basic careers all assume that you're not being trained in the Force and instead what you're doing is natural ability. The only ones that can be said to require some training would be the lightsabre specs. But everything else ..... pretty much represent people with no formal Force training and instead are people who have access to the Force. They have abilities that they can use because they can tap into the Force and those abilities don't really require training.

It could be said that using Force powers may require training ..... but even Anakin and Luke made use of Enhance without formal training soooooo that's debatable if it should be a requirement.

Becoming a Jedi is a function of story not career.

The quality of his saber (and his ship) should be representative of the time and energy that character has put into getting such a thing. If he slacks off in his duties to get a lightsaber, maybe he gets a ship, but it's a junky freighter, as his time away from "the job" has cost him a possible promotion or something. If he stays focused on his ship but attempts to squeeze in lightsaber time on the side then yes, give him a second-rate lightsaber or simply give him second-rate parts, showing his lack of dedication to getting the job done right.

What is it with people and wanting to hand out second rate material? I mean a character shouldn't get all that he wants upfront .... but if the player wants a ship he should have a method for getting one. If he wants a lightsabre he should have a method for getting one. Plus .... according to the rules you can actually do both reasonably well at the same time. Getting the parts of a lightsabre are dependent on the GM providing the quest itself. So the player is only able to devote as much time on it as the GM permits. Getting a ship is expensive. So to start with one it will either have to be a group resource of some sort or he'd need to be a something like a rebel pilot. Thus he could take on Duty and that would cover getting a ship as then gaining more Duty becomes an aspect of the game already. Or they can take on Obligation and have access to one and then they just owe debts that need to be repaid.

At any rate there isn't a real reason to hand out second rate material just because the player wants both a ship and a lightsabre. Just pace the rewards.

If he's smart, he'll get his ship, then set off on a quest to get a lightsaber. That's what Luke did, and that's the sort of character your player seems to be designing.

That's not how Luke did it. Luke doesn't quest for his own lightsabre until he goes off to rescue Han before Ep VI. He got his first lightsabre before he got his ship and there was no real quest involved. It was just given to him and he kept it until he lost it when his hand was chopped off. As for the ship Luke joined the Rebel Alliance and thus was granted a ship. If we follow the Luke example he should be given both fairly early on with no real strings attach and both being good equipment that work just fine.

Ok let's see.

I may have said "Jedi career" but I misspoke there. Although, you guys have cleared something up for me by accident: I was considering the Mystic to be the only career that could be a Force user with absolutely no training in this game. I thought, even if we have no Jedi Order in our timeframe, the choice to be a Consular, or Guardian for example, would require SOME form of training in the character's backstory. I'm glad you guys cleared that up, it's much easier now.

Then, I never said the ONLY characters allowed to have lightsabers were the ones that started with the skill, and I also never said that I believed only those would be able to make one, or that the Lightsaber skill included knowing how to craft one. But again, it's good that these things were mentioned, to make sure I'm getting this system correctly.

What I'm telling players is, if they DON'T pick a spec that starts with it, they have to buy it with XP (and pay more for it since it won't be a skill inside their tree,right) and that I will also require them to go on some kind of quest to find information/instructions on how to wield/make a saber. This is already in my campaign plans, anyway.

About the faulty saber/second rate material: In past SW adventures I GMed, there was a recurring problem where one player was more participative, or more creative or better at roleplaying (or all of the above), or their character was just better designed, and they ended up getting too powerful because of too much reward, or because their character concept was just better. This made for a bad situation where one character would become unbalanced because they were much stronger than the rest of the group.

I'm not sure yet what everyone is going to create in this intended group, but if there's one pilot who is, sooner or later, getting his own ship, AND a lightsaber, I'm trying to think of how I can make it so the other players don't feel underappreciated, in case they just want a saber, for example.

It's probably just a careless thing on MY end, allowing for that stuff to happen in the first place, but since I'm aware of it, this makes it simpler for me to not let it happen this time around. And these rules are better so... maybe it won't be such a big issue.

About the faulty saber/second rate material: In past SW adventures I GMed, there was a recurring problem where one player was more participative, or more creative or better at roleplaying (or all of the above), or their character was just better designed, and they ended up getting too powerful because of too much reward, or because their character concept was just better. This made for a bad situation where one character would become unbalanced because they were much stronger than the rest of the group.

This is solved by not handing out rewards for having the "better concept" or the "better role player" or for being "better designed". Balance all the rewards in accordance with the need to maintain overall group balance.

As the others have said, just pace the rewards and make sure the other players feel equally rewarded.

Nothing happens unless the GM makes it happen. If the pilot wants a ship, you're going to be the one to give it to him. Sure, he'll feel like he earned it, or won it, or stole it, but you made the scenario happen. So if you don't want him to have a ship yet, don't put him in the scenario yet. Or if he somehow worms his way into such a situation, be sure that things just happen to go south in such a way that he doesn't leave with a ship in hand. Or maybe he leaves with a beat up wreck, and will have to put more time and effort into mending it before it's useful.

Same goes for the Lightsaber. The hilt itself is pretty easy, you can assemble one with spare parts salvaged from droids and blasters pretty easy. But the Crystal is the key, and those are not common by any means. So until you're ready for him to have a full blown Saber, then he just doesn't find a crystal. Maybe he manages to assemble a Training Emitter, which allows him to use Saber talents, but does not permit Breach or Sunder, and only does Stun damage. That way they still feel like a Jedi without having a game breakingly powerful weapon in hand everywhere they go.

As far as the other players are concerned... maybe start talking to them a little here and there, like you would asking someone ahead of time what they want for their birthday or Xmas. Then you can start to tailor events towards those ends in some form or fashion. Maybe the team tank is feeling a little squishy... so you arrange for them to find some better armor or armor mods now and then. Maybe the team gunslinger wants more / better pewpew, so you arrange for a fallen enemy to drop a nice gun or gun component occasionally. In the end, they feel like they're getting the things they wanted, and everybody is happy.

Again... the players can *want* to do things, but you as the GM decide when those things happen.

There's no reason to give the PC a defective sabre.

I mean unless they WANT one, for roleplaying richness purposes, right.

My character started with a blaster that was malfunctioning and didn't work right, because he was from planet without any major technology.

It was funny.

There's no reason to give the PC a defective sabre.

I mean unless they WANT one, for roleplaying richness purposes, right.

My character started with a blaster that was malfunctioning and didn't work right, because he was from planet without any major technology.

It was funny.

See? THIS.