IMO it's a better set of bonuses than Palp gives, but with less flexible triggering and less flexible ability to pass them out, so... it's different. It's more twitchy and requires more tactics than Palp, but it offers potentially bigger benefits, and lets you fit in more ships, so... I dunno, I'm looking forward to it, it's definitely fun, and potentially gives you things like Rexler with focus/focus/evade/TL which is crazy good, or 5-action Inquisitor, but it takes more practice and tactical care.

Palp is the obvious analogy, of course.

Palp being able to materialize any result you need from anywhere on the board regardless independent of action or movement is more effective than anything a Fleet and System Officer Bomber can give. A third focus token isn't going to help keep Fel alive anywhere near as well as being able to turn a blank into an evade will. Those bonuses can stop you from taking damage from an asteroid, stop a second face up card from a Major Explosion, or ensure that spending an action actually clears your Weapons Failure crit.

Which is why you don't give a third focus token to Fel. You give a target lock and focus/focus/evade to Juke Rexler, or you give 5 actions to the Inquisitor, AND you end up with another focus token to throw to someone else, potentially letting Omega Leader go into that crucial first engagement with maximum possible tokens, or letting a ship K turn and still get focus/TL, or... or... or...

The benefits are potentially greater and more far-reaching than Palp, but much harder to apply, and much riskier. Which is fine, because the ship is cheaper.

And for the people asking 'why not just take OL instead', it's not either/or. My current list is Juke Rexler, OL, AP and Bomber Buddy. Even an Academy Pilot can be annoyingly tough and hard-hitting when it can BR for the block and still end up with focus and TL.

I've seen off and on talk about what my friend and I have been calling the AWACS bomber:

TIE Bomber: Scimitar Squadron Pilot (16)

Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)

TIE Shuttle (0)

Fleet Officer (3)

Systems officer (2)

I don't think it's the blessing others are making it out to be. The action certainly synergizes. Green to hand out TL, action: take stress to hand out two focus tokens.

A few problems I see:

-the differing ranges, R1 for SO, 1-2 for FO. This means a bomber has to keep pace with your heavy hitters, never easy, especially as this often puts the AWACS in range of enemy fire.

-after handing out his goodies your AWACS is a sitting duck. No tokens to buff defense or offense, and he's very often in range.

-at 22 points, I don't think he will pay for himself in MOST builds. If you pay more for a higher PS, you are upping the point cost, but leaving yourself more open to blocking, which negates your ability to hand out focus tokens.

Thoughts?

1.) Palpatine is such a broken (support) card. This is just a jankier, less effective version of the Palp Shuttle. The Inquisitor already has focus evade target lock. Having a second focus is nice but not at all worth running an entire 22 point ship for.

2.) 3x Gamma Squadron Veteran, 3x Homing Missiles, 3x Extra Munitions, 3x Deadeye, 3x Guidance Chips, and a Scimitar Squadron with TIE Shuttle and Fleet Officer. That seems good, Imperial U-Boats almost.

Switch Homing missiles for Concussion missiles - which are basically just as good - and you can put Systems Officer on the TIE Shuttle too

Homing Missiles stopping Evade tokens can be a big deal. I'm not sure how the math works out but it seems like a focus token + Guidance chips is probably more likely to get 4 hits/crits than Guidance Chilps + a blank to a hit.

Mathematically a Deadeye Homer + Chips is about as good as a Deadeye Conc + Chips.

The ability to block evade tokens only comes in handy against opponents who forget about the ability and / or have the evade action in the first place.

So up against PalpAces they're pretty good - the aces won't evade because there's no point - so Homers restrict your opponents actions - then again you'll probably take down the shuttle first, in which case Homers make no difference.

Up against uBoats which can't evade, and wouldn't even if they could, Concs are significantly better as they're a point cheaper for the same sized Boom.

If you're spending 29 points on a support ship, why is it not Palpatine? If you're spending 22 points on a support ship why not spend 4 more and get Omega Leader instead?

I may well not be giving bomber shuttles enough credit, but they just seem like really poor value when for 4-9 more points you can get Omega, Palpatine, or Inky.

4-9 points is a fairly large difference in points.

It almost sounds like you are saying "Why not just run Palp Aces?".

oui

better comparison would be Zeta leader with crackshot for 21 points

he's an incredibly efficient and punchy little bugger with a great dial, versus a bloated tie fighter that hands out focus

Mathematically a Deadeye Homer + Chips is about as good as a Deadeye Conc + Chips.

Actually this is wrong - nothing to see here - move along

It's as close to Biggs as well get they can't afford to ignore it, I've found the bomber doesn't have too much trouble staying in range while doing greens.

I've seen off and on talk about what my friend and I have been calling the AWACS bomber:

TIE Bomber: Scimitar Squadron Pilot (16)

Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)

TIE Shuttle (0)

Fleet Officer (3)

Systems officer (2)

I don't think it's the blessing others are making it out to be. The action certainly synergizes. Green to hand out TL, action: take stress to hand out two focus tokens.

A few problems I see:

-the differing ranges, R1 for SO, 1-2 for FO. This means a bomber has to keep pace with your heavy hitters, never easy, especially as this often puts the AWACS in range of enemy fire.

-after handing out his goodies your AWACS is a sitting duck. No tokens to buff defense or offense, and he's very often in range.

-at 22 points, I don't think he will pay for himself in MOST builds. If you pay more for a higher PS, you are upping the point cost, but leaving yourself more open to blocking, which negates your ability to hand out focus tokens.

Thoughts?

1.) Palpatine is such a broken (support) card. This is just a jankier, less effective version of the Palp Shuttle. The Inquisitor already has focus evade target lock. Having a second focus is nice but not at all worth running an entire 22 point ship for.

2.) 3x Gamma Squadron Veteran, 3x Homing Missiles, 3x Extra Munitions, 3x Deadeye, 3x Guidance Chips, and a Scimitar Squadron with TIE Shuttle and Fleet Officer. That seems good, Imperial U-Boats almost.

Switch Homing missiles for Concussion missiles - which are basically just as good - and you can put Systems Officer on the TIE Shuttle too

Homing Missiles stopping Evade tokens can be a big deal. I'm not sure how the math works out but it seems like a focus token + Guidance chips is probably more likely to get 4 hits/crits than Guidance Chilps + a blank to a hit.

Mathematically a Deadeye Homer + Chips is about as good as a Deadeye Conc + Chips.

The ability to block evade tokens only comes in handy against opponents who forget about the ability and / or have the evade action in the first place.

So up against PalpAces they're pretty good - the aces won't evade because there's no point - so Homers restrict your opponents actions - then again you'll probably take down the shuttle first, in which case Homers make no difference.

Up against uBoats which can't evade, and wouldn't even if they could, Concs are significantly better as they're a point cheaper for the same sized Boom.

There's actually a significant difference in the performance of Homing Missiles and Concussion Missiles (both with Deadeye and Chips). Homing Missiles get 3+ hits slightly more than Concussion Missiles get the odds of 4+ hits goes up by 14%. Combined with the evade token negation, the Homing Missiles have a much better chance of damaging Palp Aces.

I don't know that taking out the shuttle first when facing Palp Aces is the right thing to do with a Bomber Squad. To burn the shuttle down quickly you need to use ordnance. The ordnance that is used on the shuttle is the ordnance you need to take out the aces. If the shuttle presents itself as a target of opportunity that might be a different story, but if you have to let the aces flank you and fire off 2-3 missiles to sink the shuttle you are likely in for a rough ride.

Deadeye Homing Missile + Guidance Chips

If you can get your Concussion + Chips Bomber a focus token to spend on modifying the shot it gets really good.

So...have a look at this: http://tinyurl.com/hys42jc

I am torn between Guidance Chips and LRS on the two bombers. Not sure which is better.

EDIT: I agree with others who have posted...not sure an AWACS pays for its points.

So...have a look at this: http://tinyurl.com/hys42jc

I am torn between Guidance Chips and LRS on the two bombers. Not sure which is better.

Chips will be much stronger against lower PS targets but LRS will help against higher PS targets. With LRS you'll need to be better at beaking off and reengaging while Chips is gping to be more flexible about how you maneuver.

no it's not just you; crackshot is autoinclude

Crackshot - With or without ordnance, Crackshot on every shot is solid.

Adreniline Rush - Using that 5 K-Turn to get behind your opponent and fire ordnance or to pull shenanigans with bombs seems like it will be effective.

VI - Sometimes you just want a PS 10 bomber.

I don't think that the other one shots will be useful enough, often enough to justify taking. I do look forward to seeing what the two cards that come with Heros of the Resistance are. "Snap S..." and "Trick..." could end up being one shot EPTs that do something cool. I could see "Snap S..." being something along the lines of "While attacking you may ignore any requirement for possesing a token and any cost associated with the attack. If you do, discard this card".

If you're spending 29 points on a support ship, why is it not Palpatine? If you're spending 22 points on a support ship why not spend 4 more and get Omega Leader instead?

I may well not be giving bomber shuttles enough credit, but they just seem like really poor value when for 4-9 more points you can get Omega, Palpatine, or Inky.

4-9 points is a fairly large difference in points.

It almost sounds like you are saying "Why not just run Palp Aces?".

That's essentially what he is saying...

Literally "If you're thinking of running this... Just run Palp/Inq/OL instead..."

Because to hell with variety in the game, if it's not a tournament list then why even bother? amiright?

oui

better comparison would be Zeta leader with crackshot for 21 points

he's an incredibly efficient and punchy little bugger with a great dial, versus a bloated tie fighter that hands out focus

This is a better comparison, albeit one that still misses the bloody point.

If I wanted Zeta leader, or Palp, or Omega Leader, I wouldn't be discussing what I might want to do with Tomax Bren or the TIE bomber shuttle title.

That said I do agree that, at the 100 point tournament format it's difficult to justify the support shuttle in anything other than an imperial ordnance list - the range limitations of Fleet and Systems officer (along with Systems requirement of a green move), combined with the bombers overall poor-combat ability(lacking both red dice and agility) hamper it's potential quite a bit.

That said I do agree that, at the 100 point tournament format it's difficult to justify the support shuttle in anything other than an imperial ordnance list - the range limitations of Fleet and Systems officer (along with Systems requirement of a green move), combined with the bombers overall poor-combat ability(lacking both red dice and agility) hamper it's potential quite a bit.

and that, right there, is the bloody point

you're spending points on Tomax (munitions) if you want him to see legit play

in casual, anything goes obviously, but imo there's just not a lot of fun to be had from some simplistic defensive mods stapled to noodle arm offense

[

you're spending points on Tomax (munitions) if you want him to see legit play

in casual, anything goes obviously,

So "casual" play isn't "legit"? The only proper way to enjoy the game is in a tournament format? That's pretty close to the most offensive thing I've ever read on these boards.

[

you're spending points on Tomax (munitions) if you want him to see legit play

in casual, anything goes obviously,

So "casual" play isn't "legit"? The only proper way to enjoy the game is in a tournament format? That's pretty close to the most offensive thing I've ever read on these boards.

MaN you haven't been around much if that's the most offended you've gotten here :/

Well at least I'm happy to know your experience on an internet forum has been so positive so far. It can get REALLY ugly on certain sites

MaN you haven't been around much if that's the most offended you've gotten here :/

Well at least I'm happy to know your experience on an internet forum has been so positive so far. It can get REALLY ugly on certain sites

I did specifically say THIS forum, and I tend to avoid topics where obnoxiousness is likely to be prevalent.

The PS 2 systems officer seems useful but I wonder if it won't be tough to get off.

Scimitar Squadron Pilot (16)Systems Officer (2)Fleet Officer (3)Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)TIE Shuttle (0) Kir Kanos (24)Autothrusters (2)Stealth Device (3)Royal Guard TIE (0) Colonel Vessery (35)Adaptability (0)Tractor Beam (1)Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)TIE/D (0) Academy Pilot (12) Total: 100I really want to play Kir Kanos and have him shine in his role. I think if the enemy has - 1 agility then his 4-5 attack with a TL and Focus might make them shiver in their boots!

The problem now is that you are spending 51 points to have a useful Kir Kanos in your squad.

In the right squad he'll probably be worth his points if you are good at having him where he needs to be. I think the key for finding the right squad for him will be having ships that can really make use of the extra actions.

Maybe something like this:

Scimitar Squadron Pilot (16)

Systems Officer (2)

Fleet Officer (3)

Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)

TIE Shuttle (0)

Rexler Brath (37)

Crack Shot (1)

Ion Cannon (3)

TIE/D (0)

Colonel Vessery (35)

Veteran Instincts (1)

Tractor Beam (1)

TIE/D (0)

Total: 100

What about just running both Rexler and Vessery with adaptability for PS7? Then you could put Tie MKII on both of them

The PS 2 systems officer seems useful but I wonder if it won't be tough to get off.

Nah, it's pretty easy once you actually engage. The most difficult bit is getting the locks in time for the first engagement, which is non-trivial unfortunately.

In the right squad he'll probably be worth his points if you are good at having him where he needs to be. I think the key for finding the right squad for him will be having ships that can really make use of the extra actions.

Maybe something like this:

Scimitar Squadron Pilot (16)

Systems Officer (2)

Fleet Officer (3)

Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)

TIE Shuttle (0)

Rexler Brath (37)

Crack Shot (1)

Ion Cannon (3)

TIE/D (0)

Colonel Vessery (35)

Veteran Instincts (1)

Tractor Beam (1)

TIE/D (0)

Total: 100

What about just running both Rexler and Vessery with adaptability for PS7? Then you could put Tie MKII on both of them

I've run a similar build and its pretty hard hitting you usually kill a ship before you even think about turning, only time those defenders will be stressed is if the other guys got a stress bot.

What you could do is take maarek instead he wants to shoot after vessery anyway give him calculation use sysoff to give him the TL and he can spend his focus to ensure a crit on the ship vessery just stripped shields off.

The PS 2 systems officer seems useful but I wonder if it won't be tough to get off.

Nah, it's pretty easy once you actually engage. The most difficult bit is getting the locks in time for the first engagement, which is non-trivial unfortunately.

Right, this is what I meant.

IMO it's maybe more efficient with only one of the upgrade. It was fun. Useful. Sexiness game got shot down fast. Also systems officer is much harder to use in real life than expected. The low ps of the bomber makes that first engagement round TL nearly impossible. Also range bands. But a truly fun ship. I like running next to defensive Soontir for a free TL

Scimitar Squadron Pilot (16)Systems Officer (2)Fleet Officer (3)Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)TIE Shuttle (0) Kir Kanos (24)Autothrusters (2)Stealth Device (3)Royal Guard TIE (0) Colonel Vessery (35)Adaptability (0)Tractor Beam (1)Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)TIE/D (0) Academy Pilot (12) Total: 100I really want to play Kir Kanos and have him shine in his role. I think if the enemy has - 1 agility then his 4-5 attack with a TL and Focus might make them shiver in their boots!

The problem now is that you are spending 51 points to have a useful Kir Kanos in your squad.

Better than spending 26 on Jendon like you previously had to.

Support Bomber vs. Palpmobile is apples vs. oranges. Palpatine adds a hefty insurance to reduce randomness and modify results you ordinarily can't touch, but is less meaningful the more ships you have since generics won't have the force multipliers to stand up to sustained fire. Fleet/Systems Officer buffs will be stronger with generic ships that don't already have a strong action economy. From where I stand, there are three things you do need to consider before adding one to your list.

1) The ships your bomber is supporting must be able to stand alone. If you're depending on your tie shuttle to make another ship work, then I just have to kill the shuttle and I've crippled your list.

2) The bomber needs to be able to contribute by itself. The palpmobile is effective in no small part because the Lambda already had a decent statline (~18-19 point shuttle+>20 points saved by Palpatine for 20 points is a steal). This is probably the downfall of the scimitar Squadron shuttle- By itself it's just a fat Tie Fighter. Using the second crew slot for something like tactician or Mara Jade allows the shuttle to contribute on its own, but the range requirements there make systems officer awkward. One thing I did consider is Tomax+Crack Shot+Fleet Officer+Agent Kallus, which would let him buff two ships while still having a credible offense and defense.

3) Howlrunner is 18 points. Ask yourself if your shuttle is really doing more than Howlrunner would.

the main difference between palp and Tie Shuttle (and manaroo, while we're here, at least until she gets evades) is palp can also layer on top of existing modifiers

focus and re-rolls do not stack in the same roll

this makes the bomber (in addition to low offense and range restrictions, which the lambda and palp respectively do not suffer from) far more situational

now with Manaroo, who operates similarly to the support Tie Shuttle (albeit far more effectively because she packs feedback array and can therefore contribute to battle without using the modifiers she gives out like candy) discounting the unlimited range, there are a few ships that REALLY benefit from here ability

there's the advent of Dengaroo (with manny and her TPed BF), which abuses Dengar's ability with a BOATLOAD of mods courtesy of the lovely lady

there's also some of the most fun you will ever have: torpedo boats with manaroo as a bumpmaster (all you need is adaptability and feedback array)

with one measly focus, a torpscout can spit out a near guaranteed four hits. Manaroo seals that focus even after

• bumping (including self bumping, which you can use to deny range 1)
• going through obstacles
• stress (ESPECIALLY zuckuss; zuckuss on a torp boat is the best **** thing ever and you should try it)
• 4k or right segnor's (HERESY)!

etc.

so, if you want Tie Shuttle support to do work, you're going to want to find something that either chews through modifiers like an army of angry fire ants, or something capable of turning a single additional focus/TL into some impressive fireworks

if you find someone already swimming in mods, like an ace, palpatine is just superior