I'd be surprised if Vader doesn't get Saber Throw in some form.

So... What happens if the inquisitor is killed before the targeted hero?

The same thing that happens to any unique villain. They can not be redeployed in the same mission by any means. (See Allies from the RRG.)

(Only non-unique deployment cards return to the IP's hand.)

Ahh. Was not aware of that. Far more familiar with skirmish.

Love it, but I'm wondering about a few things:

1) It appears the Targeted by the Empire card could be used in any campaign, which messes up timeline because TGI is dead. Am I wrong on that?

2) Great figure for skirmish too. Han, Vader, and IG-88 (maybe Chewie, RGC, and Fett) need cost reductions or major buffs to help them. In X-Wing, look at what they just did with the TIE Defender (wave 4 of 8). They have NOT scrapped the old TIE Defender pilots or the basic framework of the old card's states. Instead, they have released title upgrades that fix the Defender specifically. I really, really hope this is what they do with these guys. I'm still annoyed that I had to buy new cards for Royal Guards through eBay (and I will for the Sabs too) and I hope I don't have to do that again with these guys.

3) The whole toss the lightsaber and cleave thing. Is there a listed rule for that somewhere? Because referring back to an article for a rule is lame.

RRG pg 24 "If a card in an Agenda set has a time period range that does not include the number associated with the campaign, the Imperial player cannot choose the set when building his Agenda deck."

Therefore if the side mission can only be used in time periods 1-2 (or whatever), none of these cards could be used. This does not apply to mini-campaigns, however, there are no side missions in mini-campaigns; so in this case the point is moot.

Remember that multiple sources of Cleave stack (Cleave 3 + Cleave 2 = Cleave 5), and only apply to a SINGLE Cleave target. You cannot split multiple sources of Cleave across multiple Cleave eligible targets.

You cannot split multiple sources of Cleave across multiple Cleave eligible targets.

Wait really? Can you Cite that please?

2) Great figure for skirmish too. Han, Vader, and IG-88 (maybe Chewie, RGC, and Fett) need cost reductions or major buffs to help them.

While upgrades are nice, in the end nothing at that cost covers what figures and activations bring to the table.

Reduction prices should be:

Vader 13 pts (15 pts if you add +1 evade)

RGC 12 pts

Chewie 12 pts

General Weiss 12 pts

Boba Fett 10 pts

AT-AT 10 pts

Han Solo 8 pts

IG-88 8 pts

Then we would be in a really good spot. Think of all of the great lists we could start to see other than just 3-4 repeat lists...

~D

You cannot split multiple sources of Cleave across multiple Cleave eligible targets.

Wait really? Can you Cite that please?

Currently there's no precedent. I've emailed the devs on the subject. Pending response, Appears as though you can do either, stack 5 to one target or split to 2 and 3.

For now, all I can provide is the extrapolation from Pierce and Blast being additive from multiple sources.

Two abilities that each grant Pierce 1 become Pierce 2. Three abilities that grant Blast 1 become Blast 3.

Nowhere does Cleave state you can target multiple figures. it merely states that you can target another figure with Cleave for the listed Cleave value.

"Pierce", RRG, Page 20:

If multiple Pierce abilities are used during an attack, their values are added together.

Oddly enough, all of the rulings on Blast being additive came directly from me in several posts last year as it was a huge issue when the Rebel Saboteurs got popular way back in Spring 2015. I understand your skepticism, and encourage a dev response.

This guy for skirmish at 9 points is insane. I don't see how anyone will ever be able to run rebel heroes now with the elite isb's and inquisitors running around. They need to hope back re price basically everything from twin shadows and before.

Remember that multiple sources of Cleave stack (Cleave 3 + Cleave 2 = Cleave 5), and only apply to a SINGLE Cleave target. You cannot split multiple sources of Cleave across multiple Cleave eligible targets.

As far as I know each Cleave ability is resolved separately in the order of the attacker's choosing (for each Cleave select an eligible target). They are not added together first. (Nothing in the rules suggest that they would be combined, but it is perfectly fine to receive the same ability from separate sources.)

The same applies to Blast (and for each Blast apply the damage to the figures in the order of the attacker's choosing), but in the case of Blast, almost always the end result will be the same.

The end results are not the same with for example Hired Guns and Greedo having Parting Shot, or someone with Final Blast, or Royal Guards with Vengeance / Forward Vengeance, RGC with Executor or... a figure may be stepping away from Cleave or Blast range or attack the attacker. If the original attacker gets defeated at any point, it cannot perform the rest of the Cleaves, because the attacker is no longer on the map. All Blasts still happen regardless of the state of the attacker.

2) Great figure for skirmish too. Han, Vader, and IG-88 (maybe Chewie, RGC, and Fett) need cost reductions or major buffs to help them.

While upgrades are nice, in the end nothing at that cost covers what figures and activations bring to the table.

Reduction prices should be:

Vader 13 pts (15 pts if you add +1 evade)

RGC 12 pts

Chewie 12 pts

General Weiss 12 pts

Boba Fett 10 pts

AT-AT 10 pts

Han Solo 8 pts

IG-88 8 pts

Then we would be in a really good spot. Think of all of the great lists we could start to see other than just 3-4 repeat lists...

~D

For now, all I can provide is the extrapolation from Pierce and Blast being additive from multiple sources.

Two abilities that each grant Pierce 1 become Pierce 2. Three abilities that grant Blast 1 become Blast 3.

Nowhere does Cleave state you can target multiple figures. it merely states that you can target another figure with Cleave for the listed Cleave value.

"Pierce", RRG, Page 20:

If multiple Pierce abilities are used during an attack, their values are added together.

Oddly enough, all of the rulings on Blast being additive came directly from me in several posts last year as it was a huge issue when the Rebel Saboteurs got popular way back in Spring 2015. I understand your skepticism, and encourage a dev response.

Blast and Pierce are added because it is predetermined based on the original target of the attack. Cleave on the other hand the target of the original attack does not matter since the target of cleave is selected by cleave's rules. The key to this is each cleave ability is resolved separately so each instance of cleave you will select a target.

Am I the only one that noticed that the article suggested that we are getting more Inquisitors? #rebelbox

edit: Just re-read it. It says Inquisitorious, not Inquisitors

So since this cleave is attached to a ranged attack, then is it safe to say that target not in LOS of the attack, i.e. the Inquisitor is not eligible to be cleaved, even if he is adjacent to the main target? That is, if two figures are standing next to each other, and both could be range attacked by the inquisitor, then one or the other could be eligible for cleave damage, but a figure directly behind the target, who was not in LOS of the inquisitor at the time of the attack, would not be eligible for cleave damage?

I think 3 cleave is too much, given that Vader has 2 blast when he is standing their slashing you with a lightsaber, but the inquisitor gets essentially 3 blast on a second target when throwing a lightsaber, that cannot be dodged, and for 9 points, no less. Power creep takes another step to making more figures obsolete.

Power creep takes another step to making more figures obsolete.

I really don't know how many times this will be said before people get it: the early figures are badly priced (among other issues), and so they were obsolete from the beginning. The only reason Vader saw play in skirmish at first was because he was so badly over costed that he became a point bank.

You don't solve the problem of over costed figures by simply making more of them. You adjust your strategy and make new figures that are better costed, and maybe go back and fix the old ones, but you never let bad design in the beginning force you into continued bad design.

Power creep takes another step to making more figures obsolete.

I really don't know how many times this will be said before people get it: the early figures are badly priced (among other issues), and so they were obsolete from the beginning. The only reason Vader saw play in skirmish at first was because he was so badly over costed that he became a point bank.

You don't solve the problem of over costed figures by simply making more of them. You adjust your strategy and make new figures that are better costed, and maybe go back and fix the old ones, but you never let bad design in the beginning force you into continued bad design.

Exactly - Vader and Elite Stormtroopers were in the game from the beginning. Elite stormtroopers are far and away a better value point for point than Vader. From the beginning of the game.

Now, if this was power creep, Elite Stormtroopers would no longer be worth playing. Guess what they're still worth playing (even over and instead of an Inquisitor if you want). While the Inquisitor has a ton of different abilities in his 9 point cost (think a Swiss Army Knife) he's still only one unit with at most 2 attacks in a round (regular and a ranged cleave). But the Elite Stormtroopers are still 3 units with 3 attacks and the ability to run one guy away to deny points (And don't forget reinforcements and grenadier). This is an example of good game design where the points are spread out in one case over three units and they're condensed in the other case into another strong unit that's almost as bluntly effective but can have some other advantages over the spam units.

This same pretty much goes for Bossk, Davith, and the Bantha in my opinion. On the surface they feel overpowered, but in this game they're just right and getting your point value out of them isn't a given but it is regularly able to be accomplished. Unlike with Han, IG-88, Chewy, Vader, and still probably Boba and RGC.

The key here is we are getting uniques now that actually have potential to make it into lists and still have room in the list to make it viable. My biggest question to be answered in the next few weeks is will Obi Wan be affordably costed or are they going to screw him up?

I think 3 cleave is too much, given that Vader has 2 blast when he is standing their slashing you with a lightsaber, but the inquisitor gets essentially 3 blast on a second target when throwing a lightsaber, that cannot be dodged, and for 9 points, no less. Power creep takes another step to making more figures obsolete.

Where the hell are you getting Blast 2 from Vader?

I think 3 cleave is too much, given that Vader has 2 blast when he is standing their slashing you with a lightsaber, but the inquisitor gets essentially 3 blast on a second target when throwing a lightsaber, that cannot be dodged, and for 9 points, no less. Power creep takes another step to making more figures obsolete.

Where the hell are you getting Blast 2 from Vader?

Sorry I just meant the 2 extra damage from surge.

Power creep takes another step to making more figures obsolete.

I really don't know how many times this will be said before people get it: the early figures are badly priced (among other issues), and so they were obsolete from the beginning. The only reason Vader saw play in skirmish at first was because he was so badly over costed that he became a point bank.

You don't solve the problem of over costed figures by simply making more of them. You adjust your strategy and make new figures that are better costed, and maybe go back and fix the old ones, but you never let bad design in the beginning force you into continued bad design.

Exactly - Vader and Elite Stormtroopers were in the game from the beginning. Elite stormtroopers are far and away a better value point for point than Vader. From the beginning of the game.

Now, if this was power creep, Elite Stormtroopers would no longer be worth playing. Guess what they're still worth playing (even over and instead of an Inquisitor if you want). While the Inquisitor has a ton of different abilities in his 9 point cost (think a Swiss Army Knife) he's still only one unit with at most 2 attacks in a round (regular and a ranged cleave). But the Elite Stormtroopers are still 3 units with 3 attacks and the ability to run one guy away to deny points (And don't forget reinforcements and grenadier). This is an example of good game design where the points are spread out in one case over three units and they're condensed in the other case into another strong unit that's almost as bluntly effective but can have some other advantages over the spam units.

This same pretty much goes for Bossk, Davith, and the Bantha in my opinion. On the surface they feel overpowered, but in this game they're just right and getting your point value out of them isn't a given but it is regularly able to be accomplished. Unlike with Han, IG-88, Chewy, Vader, and still probably Boba and RGC.

The key here is we are getting uniques now that actually have potential to make it into lists and still have room in the list to make it viable. My biggest question to be answered in the next few weeks is will Obi Wan be affordably costed or are they going to screw him up?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Inquisitor does not get two attacks per activation as stated. His lightsaber throw is an attack, so that would negate his being able to use his regular attack at all, no? At most he could lightsaber throw with some cleave onto another target, but no second attack for "Sockhead" as my kids call him.

Power creep takes another step to making more figures obsolete.

I really don't know how many times this will be said before people get it: the early figures are badly priced (among other issues), and so they were obsolete from the beginning. The only reason Vader saw play in skirmish at first was because he was so badly over costed that he became a point bank.

You don't solve the problem of over costed figures by simply making more of them. You adjust your strategy and make new figures that are better costed, and maybe go back and fix the old ones, but you never let bad design in the beginning force you into continued bad design.

Exactly - Vader and Elite Stormtroopers were in the game from the beginning. Elite stormtroopers are far and away a better value point for point than Vader. From the beginning of the game.

Now, if this was power creep, Elite Stormtroopers would no longer be worth playing. Guess what they're still worth playing (even over and instead of an Inquisitor if you want). While the Inquisitor has a ton of different abilities in his 9 point cost (think a Swiss Army Knife) he's still only one unit with at most 2 attacks in a round (regular and a ranged cleave). But the Elite Stormtroopers are still 3 units with 3 attacks and the ability to run one guy away to deny points (And don't forget reinforcements and grenadier). This is an example of good game design where the points are spread out in one case over three units and they're condensed in the other case into another strong unit that's almost as bluntly effective but can have some other advantages over the spam units.

This same pretty much goes for Bossk, Davith, and the Bantha in my opinion. On the surface they feel overpowered, but in this game they're just right and getting your point value out of them isn't a given but it is regularly able to be accomplished. Unlike with Han, IG-88, Chewy, Vader, and still probably Boba and RGC.

The key here is we are getting uniques now that actually have potential to make it into lists and still have room in the list to make it viable. My biggest question to be answered in the next few weeks is will Obi Wan be affordably costed or are they going to screw him up?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Inquisitor does not get two attacks per activation as stated. His lightsaber throw is an attack, so that would negate his being able to use his regular attack at all, no? At most he could lightsaber throw with some cleave onto another target, but no second attack for "Sockhead" as my kids call him.

Yeah it's technically only ever one attack. I was getting more at cleave three (to five) unmitigated damage pretty much giving him a second attack's worth of value. Similar to Bossk getting a mini grenade - while not being a second attack - can be as good as, if not better than (depending on placement) a second attack.

Power creep takes another step to making more figures obsolete.

I really don't know how many times this will be said before people get it: the early figures are badly priced (among other issues), and so they were obsolete from the beginning. The only reason Vader saw play in skirmish at first was because he was so badly over costed that he became a point bank.

You don't solve the problem of over costed figures by simply making more of them. You adjust your strategy and make new figures that are better costed, and maybe go back and fix the old ones, but you never let bad design in the beginning force you into continued bad design.

Exactly - Vader and Elite Stormtroopers were in the game from the beginning. Elite stormtroopers are far and away a better value point for point than Vader. From the beginning of the game.

Now, if this was power creep, Elite Stormtroopers would no longer be worth playing. Guess what they're still worth playing (even over and instead of an Inquisitor if you want). While the Inquisitor has a ton of different abilities in his 9 point cost (think a Swiss Army Knife) he's still only one unit with at most 2 attacks in a round (regular and a ranged cleave). But the Elite Stormtroopers are still 3 units with 3 attacks and the ability to run one guy away to deny points (And don't forget reinforcements and grenadier). This is an example of good game design where the points are spread out in one case over three units and they're condensed in the other case into another strong unit that's almost as bluntly effective but can have some other advantages over the spam units.

This same pretty much goes for Bossk, Davith, and the Bantha in my opinion. On the surface they feel overpowered, but in this game they're just right and getting your point value out of them isn't a given but it is regularly able to be accomplished. Unlike with Han, IG-88, Chewy, Vader, and still probably Boba and RGC.

The key here is we are getting uniques now that actually have potential to make it into lists and still have room in the list to make it viable. My biggest question to be answered in the next few weeks is will Obi Wan be affordably costed or are they going to screw him up?

+1 to what both of these guys have said. It's not "power-creep"...it's "balance-creep." The designers are bringing balance back to the force. No longer will trooper-spams or grunt-swarms be the only dominant mainstays of the competitive game. Hark, beyond the short horizon there looms a day wherein Unique figures shalt be viable in yonder competitive game!

With all of the new Unique figures so far since Lando and Bossk, it looks like we've got a new costing structure for single-unit Deployment Cards. All of them are much more effective for their points than the original Uniques were. If Lando (as we have him) was released in the Core Set, I bet he would've cost 8 or 9 points. Bossk would've been 10 or 11.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Inquisitor does not get two attacks per activation as stated. His lightsaber throw is an attack, so that would negate his being able to use his regular attack at all, no? At most he could lightsaber throw with some cleave onto another target, but no second attack for "Sockhead" as my kids call him.

That actually would make more sense to me, and does indeed make him more of a balanced character. I like your kids description, but then I have a visceral hatred for all things Rebels.

I think 3 cleave is too much, given that Vader has 2 blast when he is standing their slashing you with a lightsaber, but the inquisitor gets essentially 3 blast on a second target when throwing a lightsaber, that cannot be dodged, and for 9 points, no less. Power creep takes another step to making more figures obsolete.

Where the hell are you getting Blast 2 from Vader?

Sorry I just meant the 2 extra damage from surge.

I see. Keep in mind though that Vader has brutality. 2 red and a yellow with his surges is more likely to do more than 3 damage. The only advantage the Inquisitor has is range and against dodge (1/6 chance on a white armored character.)

Honestly, the Inquisitor only looks good in campaign since so many villians have high costs. If we had reasonably prices villians I don't think he'd be that great. His defense is pitiful and defensive barely helps since its just a guaranteed 1 block. Doesn't even stack with the block/anti-surge results of the white die. Someone like Mak with no escape could easily cripple the Inquisitor for another hero or maybe even outright kill him in 1 turn. The best way to use the Inquisitor will probably be to spam saber throw since he can't tank like Vader or the RGC. Cleave 3 is nothing compared to Brutality when you are fighting heroes with 10+ HP.

His agenda deck is pretty bad. I hate one use agenda cards. His Targeted by the Empire card is terrible since it only lasts till he WOUNDS a hero.

but a figure directly behind the target, who was not in LOS of the inquisitor at the time of the attack, would not be eligible for cleave damage?

The target of the attack is defeated and removed from the map during step 7 of the attack. Cleave is performed after the attack resolves and the target of Cleave is decided then according to the situation on the board at that time. So it is possible to defeat a figure and then cleave a figure or object that the target of the attack blocked line of sight to.

but a figure directly behind the target, who was not in LOS of the inquisitor at the time of the attack, would not be eligible for cleave damage?

The target of the attack is defeated and removed from the map during step 7 of the attack. Cleave is performed after the attack resolves and the target of Cleave is decided then according to the situation on the board at that time. So it is possible to defeat a figure and then cleave a figure or object that the target of the attack blocked line of sight to.

That makes sense, if the target is defeated, what if the target is just damaged?