I'm trying to decide if I should learn how to play on Vassal. I know a lot of people do it and I'm sure that this question has been asked a thousand times, but does it really help you in the end? I would think it doesn't actually help your pilot skills since the game is much different than play on the actual mat. It seems it would only help with squad building and determining the effectiveness of a squad, which you can usually do in one or two casual games. I've been playing xwing about two years now and I would consider myself a decent player. Just trying to decide if I should invest the time to learn Vassal.

So.....convince me or turn me away...

Thanks for your responses ahead of time.

Some can't go to the gaming store and play on a regular basis, and X wing is not like riding a bicycle, you will forget things. Vassal is a good way to help freshen the mind if you can't play out very often, and it does indeed help with testing out squadrons.

Vassal is good. But i am a much better player on table. Mainly cause i have a hard time judging distance on a computer screen. But it is quite fun to play against different people.

I'm trying to decide if I should learn how to play on Vassal. I know a lot of people do it and I'm sure that this question has been asked a thousand times, but does it really help you in the end? I would think it doesn't actually help your pilot skills since the game is much different than play on the actual mat. It seems it would only help with squad building and determining the effectiveness of a squad, which you can usually do in one or two casual games. I've been playing xwing about two years now and I would consider myself a decent player. Just trying to decide if I should invest the time to learn Vassal.

So.....convince me or turn me away...

Thanks for your responses ahead of time.

Judging distances is challenging for some, not so much for others. Will it make you a better player? Absolutely! And you don't even have to be a player on Vassal to learn from it. With the Vassal league, you can sit in on games being played by the absolute best players in the game and watch what they do. Not only that, you can download the vlog files and watch what happened. On your own, you may not learn as much without some commentary, so there are times and seasons where you will catch games being broadcasted via twitch by some of the podcasts and have the commentary overlay.

However, if you are deeply committed to becoming a top notch player, there is no other place that you can find the top notch tier of players gathered in one place that you could play against. You might not can pick your opponent on any given night, but with the different tournament circuits and Vassal League, you can definitely play against regional winners and worlds competitors for stronger competition. It is a unique atmosphere.

Of coarse it helps.

You learn same way as you do when playing on a table. Learn from your mistakes.

Usually when you lose, it's not the turn in which you lose that causes you to lose the game, but a previous turn. It's identifying this moment and learning from it that makes you better.

Also if you can look at the board on vassal and judge your distance and spacing on there, then you can do the same (somewhat) on the table.

I do find judging distance can be little tricky at times on vassal due to it being on a computer screen, but if you can judge 3 base lengths on vassal, then you should be able to do it on a table.

It's also a good place to test out builds, play against many other players that'll always teach you, or see something new, and you can get access to unreleased stuff weeks/months before release, so you'll either already be A) bored with it, and and or B) way ahead of your peers when released

I mean you'll only ever be as good as though you play against, and thanks to Vassal I've been able to play against 2 world champions, (though I'm not as good as them it does help you play better) If your only ever up against weaker opponents, then it's harder to get better imo. It's when you lose, make mistakes, or whatever else that you learn from, and get better.

I'll say this. It's clunky, takes some getting use to, but if your like me, only have two people to play with, vassal is a nice change of pace, and setting up/cleaning up before and after a game is much easier

I'm trying to decide if I should learn how to play on Vassal. I know a lot of people do it and I'm sure that this question has been asked a thousand times, but does it really help you in the end? I would think it doesn't actually help your pilot skills since the game is much different than play on the actual mat. It seems it would only help with squad building and determining the effectiveness of a squad, which you can usually do in one or two casual games. I've been playing xwing about two years now and I would consider myself a decent player. Just trying to decide if I should invest the time to learn Vassal.

So.....convince me or turn me away...

Thanks for your responses ahead of time.

Vassal is extremely easy to learn. I went from having never used it to playing a game against someone the same day. I keep the maneuver templates visible when playing and I find my ability to gauge distances is the same as on the table. Having a lot of screen real estate helps with that. It's also easy to get in more games faster. I don't think there's a good reason not to use Vassal if the options are Vassal or not at all.

I'd also like to add that much of the "skill" of maneuvering is simply application of game knowledge.

If you sit down with 2 large bases and a 2 bank template, you'll be able to know if a U-Boat sloop will make it, for example.

Yes.

Practice makes you a better player, where you practice is irrelevant.

So yes vassal games will improve your skills same as real matches.

If it weren't for VASSAL, I wouldn't be able to say "I've beaten a three-time world champion!" to my nerdy x-wing friends. So thanks VASSAL for making me look so much cooler among my geeky gamer friends!

The short answer is yes.

The long answer; totally bruh.

If you're worried about angles and such you can use Tabletop Simulator and it's gives you a much more realistic approach to the game and gives you the angles you are use too.

I have been using Benchmark. Mainly to test squadrons vs the AI. It is helpful when trying to see if certain upgrades work. But the AI isnt that great to test your flying skills. It is a great system and still in development. But anything that helps you test and develop your skills is a good thing.

Practice with lists and basic rules? Yes.

Spatial judgment and balanced dice on the table? Absolutely not.

Practice with lists and basic rules? Yes.

Spatial judgment and balanced dice on the table? Absolutely not.

Now maybe it's just me, and a superstition thing, I like to roll my dice, not have a computer do it for me. Like I am in control of it somehow, but I do feel vassal dice are one sided a lot of games, but I've heard people have ran tests on it, and it is completely random

Though was funny, the other night I had terrible dice. My opponent agreed as well. Coming on the end of the game he flew over a debris and rolled for it and rolled a blank or something. I asked "may I" and it came up a crit lol. Couldn't help but laugh, and I think he was too

I play Tabletop Simulator. Light years better than Vassal. It's not free though. Now on Steam Sale for 10Eur

I have been using Benchmark. Mainly to test squadrons vs the AI. It is helpful when trying to see if certain upgrades work. But the AI isnt that great to test your flying skills. It is a great system and still in development. But anything that helps you test and develop your skills is a good thing.

It's a small dev making a browser based system so the A.I won't rival a real player but it's still a good tool for testing.

But nothing will replace facing another person for learning.

I have yet to, but would love to, get vassal or TTS up and running (soon). But it's the Malcolm Gladwell rule: "The principle holds that 10,000 hours of "deliberate practice" are needed to become world-class in any field." Play more, see more situations, realize it's not your dice, and to use the parlance of our times: get gud.

Sometimes it is your dice I'm sure we've all seen games where the dice defy the odds, I've had opponents say I should of won given the way I flew but my dice were cold.

Range one behind another ship with TL and a focus then rolling six blanks isn't me, that's the dice.

Practice with lists and basic rules? Yes.

Spatial judgment and balanced dice on the table? Absolutely not.

I'd be a lair if I said I never wondered about the vassal nice.

Now maybe it's just me, and a superstition thing, I like to roll my dice, not have a computer do it for me. Like I am in control of it somehow, but I do feel vassal dice are one sided a lot of games, but I've heard people have ran tests on it, and it is completely random

Though was funny, the other night I had terrible dice. My opponent agreed as well. Coming on the end of the game he flew over a debris and rolled for it and rolled a blank or something. I asked "may I" and it came up a crit lol. Couldn't help but laugh, and I think he was too

Practice with lists and basic rules? Yes.

Spatial judgment and balanced dice on the table? Absolutely not.

I'd be a lair if I said I never wondered about the vassal nice.

Now maybe it's just me, and a superstition thing, I like to roll my dice, not have a computer do it for me. Like I am in control of it somehow, but I do feel vassal dice are one sided a lot of games, but I've heard people have ran tests on it, and it is completely random

Though was funny, the other night I had terrible dice. My opponent agreed as well. Coming on the end of the game he flew over a debris and rolled for it and rolled a blank or something. I asked "may I" and it came up a crit lol. Couldn't help but laugh, and I think he was too

What kind of lair would you be? A wampa lair?

On vassal I don't mind the digital dice since its all just simulating the real thing its fine for me. But I would hate to play against someone with the diceapp in a real game.

As for practice on vassal, I think its great, as others already said you practice all but spacial judgement, against opponents you couldn't otherwise play.

Sometimes it is your dice I'm sure we've all seen games where the dice defy the odds, I've had opponents say I should of won given the way I flew but my dice were cold.

Range one behind another ship with TL and a focus then rolling six blanks isn't me, that's the dice.

Some games it's the dice

Some people seem to think that people blame everything on dice

I believe that's not tye case. I've lost games due to poor positioning, or Hitt an asteroid, but then there are games I should have won, but you can't win when your opponent rolls hits crits evades all day with no modifiers and you roll blanks with target locks and focuses.

Also it's those game's people should watch out for when winning too. Just because you won with a squad you threw together, don't get cocky, and think it's a great squad when your opponent dice go utterly cold. Because if the dice average out, you could find your squad isn't as powerful as you thought.

I have been using Benchmark. Mainly to test squadrons vs the AI. It is helpful when trying to see if certain upgrades work. But the AI isnt that great to test your flying skills. It is a great system and still in development. But anything that helps you test and develop your skills is a good thing.

I just want to say that the AI on that benchmark thing is absolutely worthless. Any conclusions you draw from performance on there are meaningless because even the worst players you encounter will fly 100x better than that AI.

Its not even remotely as useful as VASSAL, imho.

I guess I will take the time to learn and figure it out! I've played the Benchmark. When the three uboats pull off a sloop on the first move you kind of scratch your head. The AI isn't good at all!

I guess I will take the time to learn and figure it out! I've played the Benchmark. When the three uboats pull off a sloop on the first move you kind of scratch your head. The AI isn't good at all!

Then you program a better one and hand it over.