You're not obligated to support anyone. If it closing wouldn't bother you then by all means go elsewhere.

But with larger groups of folks playing and having the attitude of "if one of us is banned, none of us will go there again" (a fair number of former Military types like me, so we tend to stick together)...

What were you doing to get banned?

In my case, I was the local "Press Ganger" for Privateer Press and TO for the Wizkids stuff (MechWarrior) running tournaments at several local stores... The one "less pleasant" store owner accused me of breaking some sort of exclusivity agreement by running things at other stores.. No such agreement existed, and I was NOT an employee of his... But his store, his rules, he banned me and that was that. So, not a big deal, but it DID mean that the groups playing those games went to the other store instead of his... Other guys had similar experiences with him and another local owner... For a while there were NO local stores we'd play in, but that was a while back...

Hmm wonder if I could kick the skinny jeans wearing kids off the Starbucks table and have them go suck bandwidth someplace else so we could play X-wing there..lol

There was a while back a Game Players Club down this way. Nothing much as far as 'night life' looking and mostly geeks, well me too. But two private rooms, tables and made for gamers. They had a bar and microwave food including sandwiches which was nice. There were around for a while but finally closed up.

Loved going to that place. Could hang out if not playing, eat, drink and game.

When you say "boots us out at 8 PM," is that when the store closes? Or do they just arbitrarily throw all the X-Wing players out at 8:00? I mean, if the store closes at 8, I can't really hold it against them for making you leave at, well 8.

A good game store will stay around to let you finish. Doors close at 8, but we still need to clean up.

Clearly there is a difference between a LGS and a FLGS.

Support your FLGS.

If an lgs has a nice well maintained space where you can play, then I have absolutely no problems paying for that.

On the other hand if they make no effort to maintain the space and keep it at least reasonably habitable then I'm not likely to play there, even if it is free.

I have a couple of Lgs's (one for magic, one for x-wing). Neither of them charge for the use of their space, which is really cool. However, I do like to support a good lgs, and I have always made a point of prioritising the lgs over other retailers when making purchases (even if that means I pay a couple bucks more for what I want). I also try to make sure I make some kind of a purchase from the store on a semi-regular basis.

(much easier for mtg than x-wing 'cause a stray booster here and there is nothing really, not to mention sleeves, and the fact that regular tournaments with paid prize support feed back into the store as well.... X-wing by contrast is actually a lot harder to sink regular cash into without reaching "mistakes were made" levels of ship ownership.)

Nevertheless, I do try to make sure I don't go too long without dropping some money in the lgs.

Just being local isn't enough your not obligated to support any business if they want your patronage they have to earn it, being a squalid mess that charges more than retail is not the way to do it.

Vote with your money. 'Nuff said.

If a store gives a great experience, I will buy snacks, pick up a ship, buy some card sleeves, paint, another game, anything to support them.

There's a local store, closest to my house, that caters mostly to the MTG crowd (Phoenix gaming lounge, yeah, I'll throw them under the bus). I once spent 15 minutes at their register waiting to buy a good deal of plastic. Nobody was there to help, so I'll never go there again. Thankfully, we have some great options in our city other than that store.

Got an op at the Friendly NON-local Game Store this Sat. plan on Talking it over with folks there and who ever car pools with me. But I plan on submitting a list of stuff I think the LGS NEEDS to fix before we/I start shelling out 20 bucks a month to play there.

List of demands..lol

1 At-least 2 Dedicated X-wing playing tables. I have table tops if more are needed for tournaments..

2 A CLEAN area no food goo on boards/tables place swept and clean with out food debris all over the floor!!!

3 Bright non-flickering lighting!! spend the buck 50 for that new ballast resister in the back room!!!!

4 monthly OP kits at reasonable prices to play.. 5 bucks a person or ship purchase works for me...

5 allow us to finish our games OR allow us to play in the back room during magic nights if that schedule works for the other X-wing players.

6 have other non-playing parents control their kids!!

7 on dedicated X-wing night warn folks NOT to set up or be playing on /in X-wing area.

8 move the flipping 3D life sized cardboard cutouts of Nascar/marvel people you recently started collecting if space is such in issue!! really how many nerds are in to NASCAR??? I mean now the prime area we used to play in is full of these life-size cardboard people!! So now in order to play we have to move real and fake people around!!!

Now some NICE things that would also be helpful:

1 fridge stocked with wide assortment of drinks for sale.

2 a bit over the top but thought it was cool in some of the game stores i have played in were speakers that played ambient starwars music in the back round. Also various starwars gaming posters etc on the walls so the place doesn't feel like a dungeon!!

3 weed out all the bent and broken chairs and just toss them...

4 owner needs some headphones for when he wants to listen to his oldies crap..lol He also likes to sing along some times..lol

I can't speak for your FLGS but just on a personal level, I would be pissed if you came at me with something like this.

The better bet is to have a calm conversation with him and take your approach in chunks. Rome was not built in a day.

Have you ever considered simply opening your own store instead that's revenue is not only based on the games but also on food and drink? I am not talking about doritos and Mountain Dew here, actually having a coffee shop/ Bar that serves food people can actually eat for a meal? make "gourmet" hot dogs, they are super cheap and if you come up with some really cool toppings and combos (based on games for a theme) you can make around 150% revenue on them. I don't know how SC is with liqour licenses but in NC Atomic Empire can sell beer. A keg of good beer is about $150 and is around 160 12 OZ beers that you can sell for 2-3$ and it will still be a bargain. You will need a kegirator, but those are super easy and cheap to make. For a cup of beer and Themed Hot dog your costs should be around $2-3 all in and you can easily charge $6-7 and people will pay it all day long. For the younglings, you can also get root beer that comes from Old Dominion and then they can feel all cool that they are ordering a "beer". Hell, even having a starbucks esque cofffee shop will make you tons because the parents will buy coffee or tea while they wait for kids.

You're welcome everyone, I will expect royalties if people use this model.

we have no FLGS what'sover. and nobody gives a ****, actually.

You need some place to play, and some people to play with

???
Screw the guy who's there just to milk MTG and find some other place.
Teach the guy a lesson. Commune with local players (other X-wing, Warmachine&Hordes, 40k and WFB players) and embargo his store. Nobody buys paints from him, mail order-only for a couple months and watch him understand his folly. Nothing rings like a buck.

I can't speak for your FLGS but just on a personal level, I would be pissed if you came at me with something like this.

The better bet is to have a calm conversation with him and take your approach in chunks. Rome was not built in a day.

Have you ever considered simply opening your own store instead that's revenue is not only based on the games but also on food and drink? I am not talking about doritos and Mountain Dew here, actually having a coffee shop/ Bar that serves food people can actually eat for a meal? make "gourmet" hot dogs, they are super cheap and if you come up with some really cool toppings and combos (based on games for a theme) you can make around 150% revenue on them. I don't know how SC is with liqour licenses but in NC Atomic Empire can sell beer. A keg of good beer is about $150 and is around 160 12 OZ beers that you can sell for 2-3$ and it will still be a bargain. You will need a kegirator, but those are super easy and cheap to make. For a cup of beer and Themed Hot dog your costs should be around $2-3 all in and you can easily charge $6-7 and people will pay it all day long. For the younglings, you can also get root beer that comes from Old Dominion and then they can feel all cool that they are ordering a "beer". Hell, even having a starbucks esque cofffee shop will make you tons because the parents will buy coffee or tea while they wait for kids.

You're welcome everyone, I will expect royalties if people use this model.

i am an old retired curmudgeon i dont plan on opening anything except the occasional frosty beverage. really the whole problem with my LGS is THAT he does lump us older farts in with the magic kids. We HAVE jobs/or had in my case..lol we have houses and places to play we dont NEED his babysitting area to play in... OTOH I play at his store to simply grow the game and meet new players which in turn helps the LGS but he doesn't seem to see that aspect and ALL the other short comings of his store. I mean he has watched me several times ask for cleaner and then proceed to clean the tables in his store while he just sits on his butt and looks at me?? lame...

flgs will regularly ban sour mood people, just because they make a friendly atmosphere evaporate in a second or less. They may not actually be doing anything "bad" but are just an overall negative nancy and unsportsmanlike behavior.

We had one such guy awhile ago that was so salty over losing an xwing game because he flew onto a rock or off the board he refused to shake hands afterwords. He left of his own accord but the moment Hobbie (the owner) overheard us talking about him he immediately bumped into the convo and said "Who? Who's being a sour-puss and unsportsmanlike to not even shake a **** hand?!" we never told him the name but the guy was already gone anyway. He said if anyone else does that **** to tell him and he'll be happy to kick their salty-ass out the door.

What store and city is this? Please tell me so I might never do business there, Not wanting a limp-wristed clammy handshake after a loss should not be a bannable offense. The store owner sounds like a bully to me.

i have no sympathy for people who are unsportsmanlike and denying a handshake purely because you lost ESPECIALLY because you screwed up not because you got owned legit is unsportsmanlike. You lost, dont be a sour-puss about it and rebound later. All it does is create unnecessary tension in the room which brings everyones mood down.

if i lose and get flustered because of what happened im still courteous about the game and walk off afterwords to do my anger thing away from the rest. I do not want anyone thinking its them that made me upset.

Its different if theres actually a reason to deny the handshake. I.e. ive turned it down because i was coughing into my hand alot that day.

See I've always seen the winners who whine about not getting a handshake as the poor sports. It always came across as it isn't enough for them that they won. Like they want to rub it in that they won but they're too much of a coward to actually come right out and rub it in. They're taking some other person's failings as a personal insult.

I've also found that many of those guys always give the most limp-wristed weak-gripped disrespectful handshakes. Don't get me started on the bad handshakes.

Agreed, must be firm handshake.

I shake whether i win or lose, in fact im usually the one offering it.

I dont know where you live where you'd get that impression about handshakes just being a way to rub the victory in, but everywhere i have lived (many states in america and various deployed locations as well as South Korea) its a sign of no ill means. No hard feelings, no ill-intentions, no remorse. Just "Good game" nothing more even if it wasnt a good game. If it gets rejected, its a sign that such feelings DO exist and thats not good.

I think sometimes LGS's follow the old adage of "Penny wise pound foolish." In used to play Heroclix at a LGS and would guy other tabletop games from them. Their heroclix scene was dismal. They had maybe a 10 packs worth of old clix that no one would buy anymore. A new guy moved into the area and asked if he could start up a group. With in a short time he had the group up to about 15 regulars. These regulars would buy about 2 cases a piece of each release, which if anyone knows Wizkids they put out a crap ton of product. These cases were in addition to the sealed draw tournaments which required the purchase of 2 packs once a month. It started out pretty good. The shelf's were stocked with the new hotness, other people would see us play and pick up a "starter set" and maybe a few packs. OP prize support was good and we got a discount on product for pre-ordering, non CSI or MM level but a little bone to throw our way.

Then the store owner got greedy. The discount dropped off, our prize support was suddenly cut to a 1/3rd of what it should have been based on the amount of product being sold just to us alone. The store owner made some claim that he could not afford to buy prize support from wizkids so he had to cut back. It turns out he was still buying it, he was selling it on ebay instead for an extreme markup. When confronted he told us he bought it he can do what he wants with it (Wizkids forbids stores from selling prize support but is lax at enforcing it.) We sometimes would get forced back to a small non-air-conditioned room or even the basement storage area to play instead of the main playing area. Eventually the guy who set everything up decided he had enough and went to another store to see if they wanted to run Heroclix. The entire core of the playing group left with him. I got burnt out from tournaments, lost my enjoyment of the game. That combined with family and work and I sold everything off (it did allow me to buy a crap ton of Armada, X-wing, and Imperial Assault stuff and a few other games so at least that was good). A few stragglers stayed behind but last I saw, a tournament day was 3 people including a store employee (owners fiance) who was the judge and did not know how to play. I have stopped in a couple of times in the proceeding years but I never buy anything and his heroclix has shrunk dramatically and I have seen some stuff on the shelf that I know has been there for a few years. I just don't see it as good business practice to alienate a group of people who spend $4-5k collectively every other month on just heroclix alone not including their other purchases (this was also a comic shop so many of them had pull lists they cancelled) just so you can make a hundred dollars off of ebay every know then.

My favorite LGS was when 20 years ago when I was still in high school. I used to go there every Sunday and play Rifts RPG with the owner and group of other guys. Occasionally we would also play Earthdawn. Anyways I left for college and decided maybe on a weekend home I could stop in and maybe try to drop in for a night. Unfortunately the store had burnt down in a fire. Some months later the owner was arrested for Arson and insurance fraud. I have not had the best luck with LGS's.

With 2 little kids and and a rotating days worked schedule I don't have much time for organized games anymore. A few friends and coworkers will play but usually just use my boardgame or other miniatures collection to play. Can't wait till my son gets a few years older and I can play more games with him. Sadly my FLGS is basically the internet now.

I'm surprised most LGS make any money. Most owners are horrible business people. I've been to many (since I live in Toronto) and here's what I'd do:

1) Mark-up your product no more than 10-20% above MSRP. Your regulars will likely buy all of your new stock anyway. Keep them loyal by not gouging here (see how to make money below). Keep your front shop lightly stocked, and keep some in the back (surprise...I have that in the back!).

2) Focus more on the gaming space than front shop. Hold lots of tourneys and charge more! Get your hands on as much promotional stuff as possible. Even if you have to buy some online from third parties. Distribute as prizes along with a small amount of store credit. Always make sure you're making money. It's ridiculous that stores only charge $5 for x-wing tournaments for example. Charge at least $10! nobody will bat an eyelash. Keep all the cash minus your store kit (or whatever swag) cost. Any extra swag, hold it for the next tournament (within reason...like if a small amount of people show up, double the swag prizes). Also, recruit a champion for whatever game is being played. Have them act as tournament organizer. They have to give up playing, but they might have fun. Delegate!

3) make the events more themed. Playing music costs you nothing! John Williams was meant to be heard (no matter what game you're playing)

4) and always be nice to people with disposable incomes. Business first.

You're welcome. THE END

I'm surprised most LGS make any money. Most owners are horrible business people. I've been to many (since I live in Toronto) and here's what I'd do:

1) Mark-up your product no more than 10-20% above MSRP. Your regulars will likely buy all of your new stock anyway. Keep them loyal by not gouging here (see how to make money below). Keep your front shop lightly stocked, and keep some in the back (surprise...I have that in the back!).

2) Focus more on the gaming space than front shop. Hold lots of tourneys and charge more! Get your hands on as much promotional stuff as possible. Even if you have to buy some online from third parties. Distribute as prizes along with a small amount of store credit. Always make sure you're making money. It's ridiculous that stores only charge $5 for x-wing tournaments for example. Charge at least $10! nobody will bat an eyelash. Keep all the cash minus your store kit (or whatever swag) cost. Any extra swag, hold it for the next tournament (within reason...like if a small amount of people show up, double the swag prizes). Also, recruit a champion for whatever game is being played. Have them act as tournament organizer. They have to give up playing, but they might have fun. Delegate!

3) make the events more themed. Playing music costs you nothing! John Williams was meant to be heard (no matter what game you're playing)

4) and always be nice to people with disposable incomes. Business first.

You're welcome. THE END

A lot of the Toronto stores are pretty good though some stand out way more. You can't really beat 401 or Meeple Mart on pricing so you really have to get loyalty. Some tournaments were starting at $20 for just the kit though for a bit.

I'm surprised most LGS make any money. Most owners are horrible business people. I've been to many (since I live in Toronto) and here's what I'd do:

1) Mark-up your product no more than 10-20% above MSRP. Your regulars will likely buy all of your new stock anyway. Keep them loyal by not gouging here (see how to make money below). Keep your front shop lightly stocked, and keep some in the back (surprise...I have that in the back!).

2) Focus more on the gaming space than front shop. Hold lots of tourneys and charge more! Get your hands on as much promotional stuff as possible. Even if you have to buy some online from third parties. Distribute as prizes along with a small amount of store credit. Always make sure you're making money. It's ridiculous that stores only charge $5 for x-wing tournaments for example. Charge at least $10! nobody will bat an eyelash. Keep all the cash minus your store kit (or whatever swag) cost. Any extra swag, hold it for the next tournament (within reason...like if a small amount of people show up, double the swag prizes). Also, recruit a champion for whatever game is being played. Have them act as tournament organizer. They have to give up playing, but they might have fun. Delegate!

3) make the events more themed. Playing music costs you nothing! John Williams was meant to be heard (no matter what game you're playing)

4) and always be nice to people with disposable incomes. Business first.

You're welcome. THE END

A lot of the Toronto stores are pretty good though some stand out way more. You can't really beat 401 or Meeple Mart on pricing so you really have to get loyalty. Some tournaments were starting at $20 for just the kit though for a bit.

Agreed. I think they're ok charging more than Meeps or 401, just not so much! I'd say Meeps has zero customer service, but it's more like minus 100. They're an online seller with a wearhouse you can walk into. LOL. 401 is cool, but sooooo not star wars focussed. The LGS in Toronto need to NOT compete with the prices of merch and start charging more for tournaments. I've never payed more than $5 for a store kit, $10 for a Championship, $20 for regional. The store kit and championship are where they need to mark up. Then hold back extra swag and be blatant about your next tournament..."it's for store credit and leftover swag from the last kit".

I don't think it's unreasonable to charge for space in a game store as long as they actually keep it up. Most businesses will not let you sit down at tables there for free.

I also think that most of the attempts to try to put bars and restaurants with game stores tend to fail because it introduces more overhead and bars tend to keep the kids out. Children playing card games are a significant part of the game store revenue and getting rid of them means you'd better be doing well elsewhere.

Are random people going to go into a game store for a drink? I think not.

ive never expected a FLGS to actually make any real profit, just enough to keep the business and themselves going.

Ive only been a regular at about 5 different stores but every single one the owner was more of a passion-driven person for the store rather than money. Course they could just be putting on a show but when youre there a lot and watching transactions you tend to believe it. They dont make much money, but they make enough and they keep doing what they love doing - wargaming.

i would love to someday run my own gaming store. I have 0 business knowledge though, im an electronics guy not a businessmen, and in this area i'd be competing for a very small group of people. Considering the amount of big regulars gauntlet games has, and how much i like the owners, i am not going to attempt to compete with them rofl.

And a snackbar is the extent of food/drink a gaming store should offer. Causes too many issues to mix the two.

I'm surprised most LGS make any money. Most owners are horrible business people. I've been to many (since I live in Toronto) and here's what I'd do:

1) Mark-up your product no more than 10-20% above MSRP. Your regulars will likely buy all of your new stock anyway. Keep them loyal by not gouging here (see how to make money below). Keep your front shop lightly stocked, and keep some in the back (surprise...I have that in the back!).

2) Focus more on the gaming space than front shop. Hold lots of tourneys and charge more! Get your hands on as much promotional stuff as possible. Even if you have to buy some online from third parties. Distribute as prizes along with a small amount of store credit. Always make sure you're making money. It's ridiculous that stores only charge $5 for x-wing tournaments for example. Charge at least $10! nobody will bat an eyelash. Keep all the cash minus your store kit (or whatever swag) cost. Any extra swag, hold it for the next tournament (within reason...like if a small amount of people show up, double the swag prizes). Also, recruit a champion for whatever game is being played. Have them act as tournament organizer. They have to give up playing, but they might have fun. Delegate!

3) make the events more themed. Playing music costs you nothing! John Williams was meant to be heard (no matter what game you're playing)

4) and always be nice to people with disposable incomes. Business first.

You're welcome. THE END

A lot of the Toronto stores are pretty good though some stand out way more. You can't really beat 401 or Meeple Mart on pricing so you really have to get loyalty. Some tournaments were starting at $20 for just the kit though for a bit.

Agreed. I think they're ok charging more than Meeps or 401, just not so much! I'd say Meeps has zero customer service, but it's more like minus 100. They're an online seller with a wearhouse you can walk into. LOL. 401 is cool, but sooooo not star wars focussed. The LGS in Toronto need to NOT compete with the prices of merch and start charging more for tournaments. I've never payed more than $5 for a store kit, $10 for a Championship, $20 for regional. The store kit and championship are where they need to mark up. Then hold back extra swag and be blatant about your next tournament..."it's for store credit and leftover swag from the last kit".

Typically the tourneys are cheaper but I know some in the horseshoe amped up the prices. 401 does a good job on tournaments as they have a ton of space upstairs though regionals was very cramped on the weekend. I ended up dropping due to a combination of heat/ losing/ and odour. Dueling Grounds had the right idea when they rented that hall for their big event.

Children playing card games are a significant part of the game store revenue and getting rid of them means you'd better be doing well elsewhere.

Not sure how it is where you live, but just because you serve alcohol doesn't mean you have to be 21 or older, at least not in places like Minnesota. The FFG event center serves both alcohol and food and it's doing quite well.

The point is to draw in people who would like to both play a game and have a beer or glass of wine, not to draw people in for a drink and then decide to play a game.

I'm surprised most LGS make any money. Most owners are horrible business people. I've been to many (since I live in Toronto) and here's what I'd do:

1) Mark-up your product no more than 10-20% above MSRP. Your regulars will likely buy all of your new stock anyway. Keep them loyal by not gouging here (see how to make money below). Keep your front shop lightly stocked, and keep some in the back (surprise...I have that in the back!).

2) Focus more on the gaming space than front shop. Hold lots of tourneys and charge more! Get your hands on as much promotional stuff as possible. Even if you have to buy some online from third parties. Distribute as prizes along with a small amount of store credit. Always make sure you're making money. It's ridiculous that stores only charge $5 for x-wing tournaments for example. Charge at least $10! nobody will bat an eyelash. Keep all the cash minus your store kit (or whatever swag) cost. Any extra swag, hold it for the next tournament (within reason...like if a small amount of people show up, double the swag prizes). Also, recruit a champion for whatever game is being played. Have them act as tournament organizer. They have to give up playing, but they might have fun. Delegate!

3) make the events more themed. Playing music costs you nothing! John Williams was meant to be heard (no matter what game you're playing)

4) and always be nice to people with disposable incomes. Business first.

You're welcome. THE END

A lot of the Toronto stores are pretty good though some stand out way more. You can't really beat 401 or Meeple Mart on pricing so you really have to get loyalty. Some tournaments were starting at $20 for just the kit though for a bit.

Agreed. I think they're ok charging more than Meeps or 401, just not so much! I'd say Meeps has zero customer service, but it's more like minus 100. They're an online seller with a wearhouse you can walk into. LOL. 401 is cool, but sooooo not star wars focussed. The LGS in Toronto need to NOT compete with the prices of merch and start charging more for tournaments. I've never payed more than $5 for a store kit, $10 for a Championship, $20 for regional. The store kit and championship are where they need to mark up. Then hold back extra swag and be blatant about your next tournament..."it's for store credit and leftover swag from the last kit".

Typically the tourneys are cheaper but I know some in the horseshoe amped up the prices. 401 does a good job on tournaments as they have a ton of space upstairs though regionals was very cramped on the weekend. I ended up dropping due to a combination of heat/ losing/ and odour. Dueling Grounds had the right idea when they rented that hall for their big event.

I'd swear someone sitting near me smelled like garbage. It was only round 3 at the time! I have learned to tolerate BO and mildew (from the store), but garbage from a human being? Yuck.

yeah some people are just disgusting.

I have a terrible sense of smell. Vast majority of odors i wont notice, or i cant distinguish but i can tell theyre there. Conveniently, body odor is one of those smells i really dont notice...which kinda sucks when it comes to cleaning my apartment since if i miss something or forget about something i wont notice till it gets baaaaad lol. Ive had people pass by my game though and the smell they had follow in their wake almost made me gag. If your **** BO is that bad where it makes ME gag, someone who sits there in a room that just got cleared because someone ripped ass because i cant smell it, you need a **** shower.

I more keep myself clean because the grimy feeling on my skin drives me nuts more than the odor. Which, being summer, means 2-3 showers a day lol