I have been blessed to have fantastic stores (multiple in my new city) that take care of their customers. My main store has a "club" membership fee of $25 per year, but in addition to free access to the gaming area, he gives good discounts that are at least as good as online retailers.

So at my local LGS last night the owner came over and said he would have to start charging us 5 bucks a week or 15 bucks a week purchase to have the "privilege" of playing at his store. (words in quotes are embellished for your reading pleasure). All the other non-local LGS's i have played at do not do this but usually have bi-monthly ops where you pay 5 bucks to play or a ship purchase. Matter of fact there is a non-local LGS that I support far more than my local LGS for the following reasons:

NoN-local LGS has dedicated Miniature/X-wing gaming tables.

Has lights that actually work!!!

Doesn't boot us out at 8P.M.

runs bi-monthly OP kits...

tables are goo free... (as is clean)...

Has a good selection of diet drinks! (local seldom has diet drinks) even though it pretty much sits across the street from a grocery store)

Contrast that for the "Privilege" of playing at the non-local LGS..

Non-dedicated play area that we constantly have to move folks out of the way and then move tables around so we can make a table big enough for an X-wing mat even though its our dedicated play night.

cheesy "Magic" type plastic card tables, no dedicated Miniature/x-wing tables.. (even though I made the store ONE table topper) for that purpose but due to the way the store is set up if you use it you have to scoot the other tables back for sitting space every time!!) (which you have to do anyway but then you get uneven tables where they join up in the middle)

Tables are frequently covered in food goo that I have to clean before moving them around to set up.

Got tired of having to move folks and tables around so we started setting up in the "back room" of the LGS. Tables are uneven when placed together however at-least we dont have to move them around every time we play. we just have to deal with the warped space effect where the two tables join up at the mid way point. (uneven hill at mid point of mat) or use the single table topper if only two folks are playing.

However lights in back room suck!! Flickering florescent strobe effect with only half of them working! AC is also not to good in the back room!! have mentioned that to owner years ago seems to only get fixed when back room is getting used for war hammer..lol

Owner has only run ONE op kit in the last 3 maybe 4 years! (as long as i can remember the place being open)

boots us out at 8P,M,. did i mention that?? lol

Frequently has a problem with kids running around unattended while the parents are busy smoking outside or playing magic.

Also his prices are sky high. I remember going in to purchase a few extra Tie advanced prototypes and paying nearly 18 bucks each for them i even asked why they were so expensive and he just shrugged.. He also gave me the look of death when I borrowed some paints from a friend so i could paint one of my Z's rather than buy the paint he had.

In a nut shell I have no problems supporting an LGS that supports us. I also think the owner is confusing us X-wing players with his cash cow magic players/pokman players in that we do NOT need his store most all of us are older and have houses or access to other places to play. Really the only reason most of us go there is to grow the game which actually helps the LGS.. Ok thanks for letting me vent!!!

Only time a LGS should be requiring ANYTHING is if its a Tabletop game that uses Terrain and the store provides it. Then its only "Reasonable" because of the wear and tear that will occur with the terrains use. And even THEN most LGS wont charge as it does more to make people NOT play than it does to cover the terrain cost. You want people to come in and buy things. If they feel FORCED to buy product to play they will likely buy online and play at home.

The mentality my flgs has and every flgs should have is:

They are here to play. But the best thing about them playing here and not at home, is if they go "Man i wish i had X unit/card in this list!" then they just walk 10 feet and grab it and buy it.

I have done that multiple times, between the 4 tabletop games ive played there. fair bit of my purchases in hindsight i shouldnt have done but at the moment i thought it was a good idea and since it was RIGHT THERE i got it before i could think things through lol.

if you pay to be there to begin with, that will deter a lot of people (especially those with low budgets) to not come at all. Which means they wont do any impulse buying.

If its a larger store im fine with a club system like Piscopas posted, granting gaming access and discounts on a YEARLY pay. Thats more to keep the occasional grimy-fingered lazy pig away from the tables that a larger game store would definitely have floating around. Even if it was a 5% discount...25 a year? Bound to save a lot more than that in a year lol

Ok. I don't own a store but I have to rant here. These guys are there to make money. They are not there to foster our entertainment. So you should always look at everything they do through the filter of they need to feed their family too.

That said, if he makes a decision that you don't like, just go shop at another store. The public in the US forgets just how much power we have. If we don't spend our money, at a store that displeases us, in great enough numbers they will have to change or go out of business.

Personally, we have great store owners near me, but don't think for a min, that if they could find a way to do it that would not slit their own wrists, that they would not start charging for table space, Air conditioning, or anything else that would make them money. It is a business after all. And they walk a fine line between being very successful and being bust.

Yes but WITHOUT us they cant exist. Its understandable that they must make some profit, but thats easily done with drinks/snacks within a store. Charging for space is the same as a cover charge at a club. If you notice you dont hear clubs doing that anymore more do you? People have space at home to play, they come to the shops to socialize and meet new people. They wont pay just for that.

I've got to say that it pains me to hear so many folks have such poor experiences at game stores. I guess I'm spoiled. The local store near me is a coffee shop with great cooler of bottled drinks, good food, and a killer coffee & drink bar. Oh, and they sell games, comics and other things like MTG, X-wing, etc. They have a great cafe in the front and on the side and back they have tables for gaming. There are nights reserved for different games, FNM for example, Monday X-wing, etc.

Everyone there is awesome from a customer service perspective and the business is a great model for success.

Perhaps I should tell the guy to expand to all 50 states!!

May all your hits be crits, cheers!!!

One of the guys in my group has a distributors licence, so he gets stuff for our group at half price. Generally if I have to choose between buying something online and saving 5% or buying in a LGS, I'm going to go local because I play there. But saving 50% is too much to pass up. That being said, we have an agreement in our group that someone buys something from the store we play at every so often because they have a nice space and let us play for free.

But I disagree with the statement that it's not the LGS's responsibility to foster our entertainment. Games like this are community based, and if people don't have a place to play other than their homes, why on Earth would they ever buy from a LGS? So fostering the entertainment of the community is good for business. Getting people in the store leads to more sales.

But the OPs shop sounds like places I've been to before. These places tend to be run by people who want a place for their own personal nerd hobby first, and a functioning business second. Just like there are people who open wineries because they like wine and haven't got a CLUE as to how to make it, there are people who run game shops because they like games and haven't got a clue as to how to run a retail store.

I guess I'm lucky, too.

This evening, after work, I'm going to Store #1 to play some X-Wing. There will be Imperial Assault and Armada league championship games going on at the same time. The store doesn't charge for playing space, and while the X-Wing selection isn't especially deep, they're more than willing to order anything, and the playing space is clean and well-lit.

Tomorrow, after work, I'm going to Store #2. Not quite as good a play area as Store #1, but no big deal. Store #2 is where most of my gaming money goes - it's a great store, the owner is a longtime friend, and it's on my way home from work and school.

Next Friday night is open RPG night at Store #3. #3 is relatively new, and is mostly a comics shop, but they have huge gaming spaces for RPGs and minis and whatever floats your boat. Owners are good people, and they're open very late on weekends.

Every couple of months, a store a little further out (about 15 miles) runs a good sale, so I'll run down there if there's something I've had on my mind - usually an RPG purchase, but sometimes X-Wing. And if I happen to be in the city I moved from, about 80 miles away, I can drop in to one or two of the shops there and pick something up, or arrange to meet with friends for a game or two. Again, no charge to play in any of these.

When I see brick & mortar stores I primarily see them as a service rather than a retail business. Which is why I don't mind paying full retail when I'm there. The service is primarily them providing me a place to play, meetup with friends, and having the products that I need that night to supplement what I've forgotten to bring or couldn't find anywhere else prior to tourney, and / or drinks & snacks on hand. I primarily purchase from the FLGSs that provide me the best service (in my subjective opinion) or the services that fit my needs the best. Doesn't matter to me that they are both about an hour away from my house vs the FLGS that's less than 30 away from me (which is also an excellent FLGSs)

but understanding that they are primarily businesses, I do not mind getting charged a gaming night fee. wether that be $6-15 or even higher. I'll mind when as a customer, I do not receive either the service which at that point now is something that I'm paying for. If the charge is $5 and the environment provided you sucks, then it is not worth the $5 then I would move to another gaming store or arrange games among your groups houses then. If they charge $15 and have amazing facilities, (gaming tables dedicated to your game, area clean & air conditioned, etc) then I'd say it was well worth it.

Here's your best piece of wisdom: game stores are run by gamers. They typically have limited social skills and even more limited business savvy, so they fail often. Look around for the ones that are better run and with better features and you will be much happier than trying to make a LGS work that has two strikes against it due to management.

When I see brick & mortar stores I primarily see them as a service rather than a retail business.

That's how I see it as well.

My LGS offers me a place to play, with terrain and such I don't have to buy. It offers me people to play with that I wouldn't otherwise know. It offers me advice on what's new and interesting as well as general hobby advice. It offers me a chance to try out new games or buy them if I think they look good.

It offers me the chance to pick up something I want right then, or have it ordered for me. It also offers all this with only a 20 minute drive from my house. Which considering how far from the metro I live, is a huge thing. The next nearest store is an hour.

For all that I'm quite willing to play MSRP, because of all the added value the LGS offers. If people are in general unwilling to pay for those services, assuming they're offered there, then naturally the store may need to do something to cover the cost of whatever service it provides.

Now there is a point where many of those services are a form of advertising and marketing. A nice store with helpful and friendly staff, that has tables, models and terrain to use is going to attract more customers than one without... But getting people in the door that don't actually buy anything isn't all that helpful to the store.

There is a LGS that has this weird soup nazi manager that doesn't allow outside food or drink in. There is a 1984-esque amount of, "No food or drink from outside is allowed. If you are caught you will be banned from the store" signs taped to the walls, and he will review security camera footage so that if a store employee that isn't an ass hole lets us have some food, they'll get in trouble. He says that it's because people sneak alcohol in. A submarine sandwich is not an alcoholic beverage.

I don't don't drink, but he makes me want to be an alcoholic just to piss him off. How pissed would he be if the garbage cans in the bathroom were filled with empty alcohol bottles and remnants from outside food?

Storgar that is basically what we are doing now as for local "nerdy" stores i think we only have one other one but will check it it. i know they dont have X-wing stuff. We are also located right next to an Air force base so that brings in a good bunch of well paid disciplined nerds..lol matter of fact i think EVERYBODY in my local group is ether active duty retired or a family member of an active duty person... I plan on going out to the base today to see if they still have a REC-Center as another option. would be cool if FFG would let us order op kits. But we really dont have a problem travelling to the non-local store once a twice a month to play them.

Is the Non-Local LGS Ready to Play in Columbia? I just saw you were from Sumter

yep it is,, and firefly is good as well except they dont have STAW stuff and its slightly harder to get to... RTP even has door prizes from time to time....

Storgar that is basically what we are doing now as for local "nerdy" stores i think we only have one other one but will check it it. i know they dont have X-wing stuff. We are also located right next to an Air force base so that brings in a good bunch of well paid disciplined nerds..lol matter of fact i think EVERYBODY in my local group is ether active duty retired or a family member of an active duty person... I plan on going out to the base today to see if they still have a REC-Center as another option. would be cool if FFG would let us order op kits. But we really dont have a problem travelling to the non-local store once a twice a month to play them.

OP will only send them to a store unfortunately. That is strange that with a base of that size nearby the store behaves in that way towards wargames. Usually, having that military presence allows for profitability from pure wargames. TBH it sounds like this guy just needs a competing store to kick him in the rear.

If there is a barnes and noble, they also sell the game and might be willing to host events.

As for the uneven table problem, you can go to home depot and have them cut 3x3 squares out of spare siding and stuff for dirt cheap. Or you can go the pink foam route and ask for defective pieces.

shouldn't the STORE be fixing its own tables? I mean i did make one topper for them figuring they would take the hint. I also got 3 toppers from RTP my non local game store when they upgraded their tables I was going to give them to the LGS but I am now rethinking that..lol

My FLGS shut down at the beginning of the year

Now each other store in the area is a minimum hour drive with traffic (weekdays)...20 minutes at most without. And this, by the way, is driving only about 10-15 miles.

Huzzah for Atlanta traffic

But I've yet to go to a game-store in the North Atlanta area (or North Georgia for that matter) that wasn't an FLGS and just an LGS.

So I've been lucky there I guess.

Also helps that the community in the North Georgia area is excellent.

You are the consumer and you get to vote with your wallet. Support those that are supportive of you, even if it's not quite local. Sounds like the other place is way better.

It is a shaky market and many stores are struggling to keep in the black. Miniatures don't really make that much money. Once you sold the model along with paint glue and other hobby supplies you got all the money you can make off that one customer who will still show up and play which makes no income to the store. The only way to make more money is by selling more models, selling refreshments, or organized tournaments and those are not big money makers when compared to rent/lease utilities and other expenses. That is also why a lot of stores hold Magic Tournaments because the robust consumer base provides a stable market with entry fees for drafts, commander, and Friday league stores can make a solid profit from that market.

Now I'll agree the LGS might not be setting the best foot forward in terms of business practices. Given that announcement I would probably never return, but I understand where the owner/manager is coming from and what they are trying to do. It's a horrible idea, but I really don't have any better alternatives other than MTG tournaments which again wouldn't bring me to the store.

It is a shaky market and many stores are struggling to keep in the black. Miniatures don't really make that much money. Once you sold the model along with paint glue and other hobby supplies you got all the money you can make off that one customer who will still show up and play which makes no income to the store. The only way to make more money is by selling more models, selling refreshments, or organized tournaments and those are not big money makers when compared to rent/lease utilities and other expenses. That is also why a lot of stores hold Magic Tournaments because the robust consumer base provides a stable market with entry fees for drafts, commander, and Friday league stores can make a solid profit from that market.

Now I'll agree the LGS might not be setting the best foot forward in terms of business practices. Given that announcement I would probably never return, but I understand where the owner/manager is coming from and what they are trying to do. It's a horrible idea, but I really don't have any better alternatives other than MTG tournaments which again wouldn't bring me to the store.

I agree that the miniatures market isn't a hugely profitable one for local gaming stores. Margins are small for most things, and you have to beat out online retailers. Arguably the best way to generate consistent revenue is with refreshments and organized events to bring in more foot traffic. Having a table fee or a monthly fee seems to have the opposite effect of driving foot traffic away from the store, but I have heard of several places doing it recently which concerns me.

Our local store owner works with the most active gamers to organize events for their games. For X-wing we do two events a month and theres only about 8 of us regulars. Guess I got lucky to have a good FLGS.

Many years ago, no I won't say quite how many, there was this game store that we always went to. We bought everything there and if we could we played there. They were always small and never had a lot or room but I knew everyone and it was fun. The only complaint/grudge I had was the owner/manager was sort of a painting snob, see end note below.

They ended up going out of business and I had lost track of the people long before that anyway.

I've played several games at Cool Stuff Inc (CSI). Yep the brick and mortar version. Lots of tables, plenty of room, nice people and runs boardgame nights too.

There was this store I thought I'd try someday so one Saturday after gaming at CSI I stopped by and to my surprise it was the same people from the old LGS. New store, very well done, same people. The manager was now the owner. Still small though, only one big table in the back and if you move a few things a couple of small tables in front. No discounts and he is VERY keen on supporting your store. He related a story about a guy that buys from him but didn't get this one game through the store. This guy asked him to see if he could get something special and he was taken aback 'he didn't get the game from me and now he wants me to do him a favor'. Well he tried anyway since it was a good customer; but the fact that he brought it up seemed that is was an important point for him. He openly admits he can't complete with CSI and won't try, several reasons, etc.... Both are a long drive for me but when I considered everything including where I game, I tend to go to CSI. I don't buy everything there but they have earned my business. Funny, that since most every where else they are an on-line retailer but CSI is a brick and mortar store for me.

[End Note] I don't paint. I've tried and it's awful. I have neither the skill, patience, time or inclination regardless of how many people tell me that it isn't that hard. So I ended up playing a few games at his (the old LGS) store where my figures were either unpainted or simply painted using a spray can. Now I love miniature gaming, even when the best troops I can field are acrylic spay can blue or green. But I was told 'why bother, if I'm not going to paint like everyone else I should just be using flat cardboard chits' and that painted miniatures looked much better in the store. Well he is correct on that last point at least, so I stopped coming by which is how we lost touch in the first place.

[Edited for spellin' an gammar]

Truth be told I would go to an FLGS that served beer and bratwurst any day of the week.

Hmm wonder if I could kick the skinny jeans wearing kids off the Starbucks table and have them go suck bandwidth someplace else so we could play X-wing there..lol

Standard Decor for a while was Tables with Chess Boards on them....

... Don't see any reason why you couldn't.

*As a previous Assistant Manager a few years back, procedure there was not to interrupt anyone who was doing anything, so long as they were currently actively engaged in consuming purchases... If they'd finished and not moved on within 20 minutes, then you bussed 'em and told 'em to buy something or make room for someone who would buy something...

So, so long as you're drinking coffee/eating a panini, you'll probably be fine. Just don't disturb any other tables.

Guess I'm another one of the very lucky ones... I have 2 excellent local stores. Loads of good play space, friendly staff and very supportive of the various games we DO play. Was not always the case, had several local stores that would ban people, were generally "less friendly", etc... So, the groups I played with would avoid those stores in general and as it happens none of them survived in the longer run... But with larger groups of folks playing and having the attitude of "if one of us is banned, none of us will go there again" (a fair number of former Military types like me, so we tend to stick together)...

Would I rent play space? Less likely, it would certainly not be an incentive for me to buy things there vs online... A lot of us are older, have homes, etc., so the big table in the basement would get used a lot more outside of big events... Would make it less fun as the regular League and Tournaments tend to draw decent crowds, but... As I said, luckily we have 2 in Champaign/Urbana...

There's a pub downtown that has a table in an isolated area upstairs that I THINK might be big enough for X-Wing....... hmmmmm........

You're not obligated to support anyone. If it closing wouldn't bother you then by all means go elsewhere.

But with larger groups of folks playing and having the attitude of "if one of us is banned, none of us will go there again" (a fair number of former Military types like me, so we tend to stick together)...

What were you doing to get banned?

+1 to all the get creative ideas. Find a shop that WILL let you play, but expect it to be similar to a coffee shop in that you should be supporting the business while you're there.

There's a friend (pilot) that flies into the area once in awhile and a few of us join him in the hotel bar for an evening of X-Wing. My tab is usually somewhere around $50 with a few drinks, dinner, and dessert. I couldn't do this weekly, but once every couple of months is AWESOME! Our xwing setup is usually 2 mats so 4 people max. Its on a marble breakfast bar with room for all the food/drinks in a 3x3 section in the middle (the outer two with the mats are raised a few inches, and 3x4ish). We get food/drinks, waiter drops by every 30 minutes or so, and atmosphere for the not-low price of expensive dinner and reasonable drinks. Its great and the food is amazing. There are a handful of people that walk by and get pulled in by how awesome the game looks, but I doubt we've converted anyone into playing.

If I could find a way to monetize that setup that would be incredible and probably revolutionize gaming, but I just don't think its there except for a few people in a major city once in a great while.

flgs will regularly ban sour mood people, just because they make a friendly atmosphere evaporate in a second or less. They may not actually be doing anything "bad" but are just an overall negative nancy and unsportsmanlike behavior.

We had one such guy awhile ago that was so salty over losing an xwing game because he flew onto a rock or off the board he refused to shake hands afterwords. He left of his own accord but the moment Hobbie (the owner) overheard us talking about him he immediately bumped into the convo and said "Who? Who's being a sour-puss and unsportsmanlike to not even shake a **** hand?!" we never told him the name but the guy was already gone anyway. He said if anyone else does that **** to tell him and he'll be happy to kick their salty-ass out the door.