Is there a campaign phase after playing a quest/encounter from a Rumor Card?

The reason I'm asking is that it seems to me in that many cases, you'd just end up cycling through all the same Rumor Card/quests/encounters each campaign, given that all the Act 1 Encounters started by Hero & Monster Collection(s) end with the Overlord pulling another card, potentially just placing that card down immediately upon the next Campaign Phase - and if the players ignore it, the Overlord gets a special Overlord Card for free when Act 2 starts.

Nevermind that you'd end up with a corresponding number of Advanced Quests once Act 2 begins.

And not only is there good argument that Rumor Cards and the associated quests/encounters are a sucker's deal for the Overlord, but if there's a campaign phase each time, you're increasing the number of visits to the merchant(s) the Heroes get to do.

And potentially a massive XP inflation, although to be fair, once the players have bought everything their class has to offer, that'd only benefit the Overlord, so that's a mistake they'd only do once.

But if there's not a campaign phase, the Overlord at least have to wait until the conclusion of the next full main story quest before he can smack his new rumor cards down.

Am I missing something, or does Rumor Cards seem.. not entirely thought-through? I guess it could've been different if I had more "streak-breakers", that is, rumor cards that are not quests/encounters, but with only Manor of Ravens and four Hero & Monster Collections, I've got a grand total of... 1 such card - and the 3 quest/encounter cards from Manor of Ravens are mutually exclusive, telling you to discard one if either of the others is or has been in play and.. again, take a new Rumor Card.

Either I'm missing something, or the game could really use having an expansion with a ton of Rumor Cards; none which would give quests/encounters or lead to Advanced Quests.

There is a campaign phase after every quest, including rumors. The overlord is not obligated to play any of the rumor cards in his hand (unless another card tells him otherwise).

I believe yes, but I must admit that I don't play with rumor cards because it drags an already long campaign. Also note that rumor quests don't grant XP , they only grant XP if you play the mini-campaign. Another reason why I don't like them, after you spent 2 hours on a quests, you want that character development.

Reading through the sections on Rumor Cards, Playing Rumor Cards, Quest Cards, Advanced Quest Cards and Completing a Quest Card in the Manor of Ravens Rules and Quest Guide (the only expansion I have with rules for Rumor Cards; the Hero & Monster Collections only references using Rumor Cards if you're already using an expansion that uses Rumor Cards) it says nothing about rumor quests not granting XP. I also checked through the Errata and FAQ, but very little

Where does it say that they don't?

There is a campaign phase after every quest, including rumors. The overlord is not obligated to play any of the rumor cards in his hand (unless another card tells him otherwise).

I realize that, it just seems.. sad not to play any Rumor cards. When you deliberately discard an option you have not because of the strategic value in doing so, but because you feel it'd just detract from the game, it's not a very good mechanic. I feel like this'd be a battle of attrition and boredom between the Overlord and the Heroes; the Overlord places a card, and if the Heroes don't do the Quest Encounter, the Overlord automatically gets a Card. But no matter what, he'll just get another card to put down, presenting the same basic scenario - do the Quest, or give the Overlord a free advantage.

This, together with the fact that Rumor cards are a pretty big liability for the Overlord to begin with, makes me feel like I should never ever play the Rumor Cards, essentially throwing away a big part of the smaller expansions I've gotten.

Not going to lie, I'm pretty disheartened by how this all seems to tie together right now. Maybe it'd get better if I had the other two full expansions with Rumor Cards, Lair of the Wyrm and The Trollfens. But with just Manor of Ravens and 4 Hero and Monsters Collections, it's looking wonky as all hell. I think part of the issue is that Manor of Ravens only had 4 Rumor Cards, of which 3 were mutually exclusive and tells you to pull a new card, and only 1 is usable for a quest.

I believe yes, but I must admit that I don't play with rumor cards because it drags an already long campaign. Also note that rumor quests don't grant XP , they only grant XP if you play the mini-campaign. Another reason why I don't like them, after you spent 2 hours on a quests, you want that character development.

Reading through the sections on Rumor Cards, Playing Rumor Cards, Quest Cards, Advanced Quest Cards and Completing a Quest Card in the Manor of Ravens Rules and Quest Guide (the only expansion I have with rules for Rumor Cards; the Hero & Monster Collections only references using Rumor Cards if you're already using an expansion that uses Rumor Cards) it says nothing about rumor quests not granting XP. I also checked through the Errata and FAQ, but very little

Where does it say that they don't?

There is a campaign phase after every quest, including rumors. The overlord is not obligated to play any of the rumor cards in his hand (unless another card tells him otherwise).

I realize that, it just seems.. sad not to play any Rumor cards. When you deliberately discard an option you have not because of the strategic value in doing so, but because you feel it'd just detract from the game, it's not a very good mechanic. I feel like this'd be a battle of attrition and boredom between the Overlord and the Heroes; the Overlord places a card, and if the Heroes don't do the Quest Encounter, the Overlord automatically gets a Card. But no matter what, he'll just get another card to put down, presenting the same basic scenario - do the Quest, or give the Overlord a free advantage.

This, together with the fact that Rumor cards are a pretty big liability for the Overlord to begin with, makes me feel like I should never ever play the Rumor Cards, essentially throwing away a big part of the smaller expansions I've gotten.

Not going to lie, I'm pretty disheartened by how this all seems to tie together right now. Maybe it'd get better if I had the other two full expansions with Rumor Cards, Lair of the Wyrm and The Trollfens. But with just Manor of Ravens and 4 Hero and Monsters Collections, it's looking wonky as all hell. I think part of the issue is that Manor of Ravens only had 4 Rumor Cards, of which 3 were mutually exclusive and tells you to pull a new card, and only 1 is usable for a quest.

In both Lair of the Wyrm and The Trollfens, the quests don't give XP (as listed under 'Quest rewards'). So that means you don't get XP from those quests.

Edit: the Rumor cards of those quests also don't mention the receiving of xp. The rules only state that you receive XP when playing a mini-campaign.

I believe yes, but I must admit that I don't play with rumor cards because it drags an already long campaign. Also note that rumor quests don't grant XP , they only grant XP if you play the mini-campaign. Another reason why I don't like them, after you spent 2 hours on a quests, you want that character development.

Reading through the sections on Rumor Cards, Playing Rumor Cards, Quest Cards, Advanced Quest Cards and Completing a Quest Card in the Manor of Ravens Rules and Quest Guide (the only expansion I have with rules for Rumor Cards; the Hero & Monster Collections only references using Rumor Cards if you're already using an expansion that uses Rumor Cards) it says nothing about rumor quests not granting XP. I also checked through the Errata and FAQ, but very little

Where does it say that they don't?

There is a campaign phase after every quest, including rumors. The overlord is not obligated to play any of the rumor cards in his hand (unless another card tells him otherwise).

I realize that, it just seems.. sad not to play any Rumor cards. When you deliberately discard an option you have not because of the strategic value in doing so, but because you feel it'd just detract from the game, it's not a very good mechanic. I feel like this'd be a battle of attrition and boredom between the Overlord and the Heroes; the Overlord places a card, and if the Heroes don't do the Quest Encounter, the Overlord automatically gets a Card. But no matter what, he'll just get another card to put down, presenting the same basic scenario - do the Quest, or give the Overlord a free advantage.

This, together with the fact that Rumor cards are a pretty big liability for the Overlord to begin with, makes me feel like I should never ever play the Rumor Cards, essentially throwing away a big part of the smaller expansions I've gotten.

Not going to lie, I'm pretty disheartened by how this all seems to tie together right now. Maybe it'd get better if I had the other two full expansions with Rumor Cards, Lair of the Wyrm and The Trollfens. But with just Manor of Ravens and 4 Hero and Monsters Collections, it's looking wonky as all hell. I think part of the issue is that Manor of Ravens only had 4 Rumor Cards, of which 3 were mutually exclusive and tells you to pull a new card, and only 1 is usable for a quest.

In both Lair of the Wyrm and The Trollfens, the quests don't give XP (as listed under 'Quest rewards'). So that means you don't get XP from those quests.

Edit: the Rumor cards of those quests also don't mention the receiving of xp. The rules only state that you receive XP when playing a mini-campaign.

I can't say anything about what it says for the rewards in Lair of the Wyrm and the Trollfens, if they specifically call for not awarding experience, but nothing anywhere in the rewards for Manor of Ravens or the quests from the Hero and Monsters Collections say that you don't get experience for finishing them.

Everyone (Heroes and Overlord both) getting 1 experience point after finishing a quest is part of the Campaign Phase rules on pg. 20 of the Core Rulebook. Unless something specifically calls for ignoring it, there's no reason to think that it should be ignored.

In fact, the rules for Rumor Card Quests, "Completing a Quest Card" , on pg. 6 of the Manor of Ravens Rules & Quest Guide, say that "Players perform the Campaign phase as normal after completing a Quest card."

And as part of a normal Campaign Phase, you get experience.

Everyone (Heroes and Overlord both) getting 1 experience point after finishing a quest is part of the Campaign Phase rules on pg. 20 of the Core Rulebook. Unless something specifically calls for ignoring it, there's no reason to think that it should be ignored.

And as part of a normal Campaign Phase, you get experience.

It says on page 20: '(as listed in the quest guide)'. The quest guide for ravens or any other expansion with rumors does not mention any default amount of xp in their reward, so they do not reward (default) xp.

By your logic, every quest in a normal expansion would grant 2 xp then?

There is a reason that the 'Additional Quest Rewards' paragraph under 'Mini Campaign Rules' (page 7 of MoR rulebook) exists, and instructs you to award xp between quests if you play it as a campaign, because normally the rumor quests don't award xp.

It says on page 20: '(as listed in the quest guide)'. The quest guide for ravens or any other expansion with rumors does not mention any default amount of xp in their reward, so they do not reward (default) xp.

By your logic, every quest in a normal expansion would grant 2 xp then?

There is a reason that the 'Additional Quest Rewards' paragraph under 'Mini Campaign Rules' (page 7 of MoR rulebook) exists, and instructs you to award xp between quests if you play it as a campaign, because normally the rumor quests don't award xp.

I'm not saying that the rules are right, I'm trying to iron out what the rules actually say. The fact that you arguably end up with 2 xp was something that confused and annoyed me for a long time, but I simply disregarded the discrepancy. It never really stood out as a potential issue until now.

If the rules for Campaign Phases really exists only to remind you of the normal rewards, and Rumor Card Quests are not intended to give out experience, there needs to be an Errate clarifying such, because by RAW, there's no reason to think that they don't.

It says on page 20: '(as listed in the quest guide)'. The quest guide for ravens or any other expansion with rumors does not mention any default amount of xp in their reward, so they do not reward (default) xp.

By your logic, every quest in a normal expansion would grant 2 xp then?

There is a reason that the 'Additional Quest Rewards' paragraph under 'Mini Campaign Rules' (page 7 of MoR rulebook) exists, and instructs you to award xp between quests if you play it as a campaign, because normally the rumor quests don't award xp.

I'm not saying that the rules are right, I'm trying to iron out what the rules actually say. The fact that you arguably end up with 2 xp was something that confused and annoyed me for a long time, but I simply disregarded the discrepancy. It never really stood out as a potential issue until now.

If the rules for Campaign Phases really exists only to remind you of the normal rewards, and Rumor Card Quests are not intended to give out experience, there needs to be an Errate clarifying such, because by RAW, there's no reason to think that they don't.

When in doubt: You are allowed nothing, only what the rules specifically tell you. The rules for the campaign are rules for the campaign so you can't apply those rules to something that the campaign did not come with. The quests for LotW etc. only mention gold/relic rewards. Only in a special occasion are you granted xp for those quests, mentioned in the part of the rules covering said quests and additional rewards (in the form of xp).

It says on page 20: '(as listed in the quest guide)'. The quest guide for ravens or any other expansion with rumors does not mention any default amount of xp in their reward, so they do not reward (default) xp.

By your logic, every quest in a normal expansion would grant 2 xp then?

There is a reason that the 'Additional Quest Rewards' paragraph under 'Mini Campaign Rules' (page 7 of MoR rulebook) exists, and instructs you to award xp between quests if you play it as a campaign, because normally the rumor quests don't award xp.

I'm not saying that the rules are right, I'm trying to iron out what the rules actually say. The fact that you arguably end up with 2 xp was something that confused and annoyed me for a long time, but I simply disregarded the discrepancy. It never really stood out as a potential issue until now.

If the rules for Campaign Phases really exists only to remind you of the normal rewards, and Rumor Card Quests are not intended to give out experience, there needs to be an Errate clarifying such, because by RAW, there's no reason to think that they don't.

Lol, so what was the point of your post/question to begin with? Are you saying everyone else is playing the game wrong or are you asking how it should be played? Following this thread, your question has already been answered already (with rulebook references and pages) and it is very clear. I do believe you can impose your rules on your own when playing with your gaming group, but everyone else knows that rumor quests do not grant XP and 1 XP is awarded on campaign quests.

Lol, so what was the point of your post/question to begin with?

Literally answered by the second paragraph. What was the point of your post, other than to flaunt your lack of reading comprehension and writing skills?

Are you saying everyone else is playing the game wrong or are you asking how it should be played?

No, and nothing even hints at me saying that.

Following this thread, your question has already been answered already (with rulebook references and pages) and it is very clear. I do believe you can impose your rules on your own when playing with your gaming group, but everyone else knows that rumor quests do not grant XP and 1 XP is awarded on campaign quests.

You're right in that the original question has been answered and that the rules are very clear - I also found the answer myself, because you're wrong in that it was answered with rulebook references and pages. But I'm not surprised to see you mixing the various questions and the ongoing discussion up, since it's evident that you actually haven't been following the thread.

Also, Descent isn't a roleplaying game, there's no Rule 0 that allows you to "impose your rules on your own when playing with your gaming group" . The essence of the RAW is of pretty paramount import. Were I a GM and not an Overlord in an oppositional position to the other players, I would've just made a call and gone with it. But that's not how Descent works.

I'm going to jump in where I don't belong. I can relate to the desire to know what the RAW say, regardless of how I might feel about what they say, or if the RAW makes sense. Any house rules (in my opinion) need to be made in full knowledge of the RAW so you know exactly what it is you are house ruling, and why. That being said, no house rules necessary with rumor rewards.

As a rule, rewards only consist of what is found in the rewards section in the quest guide, unless the rulebook says otherwise.

Additionally, I didn't realize you were using Manor of Ravens rumors. Please note that based on the instructions on the quest cards, you can only play one MoR rumor quest card per campaign (the same applies to LotW and Trollfens). On the rumor quest cards from these expansions, it says "If you have already played [any of the other quests from this expansion] discard this card and draw another."

I'm going to jump in where I don't belong. I can relate to the desire to know what the RAW say, regardless of how I might feel about what they say, or if the RAW makes sense. Any house rules (in my opinion) need to be made in full knowledge of the RAW so you know exactly what it is you are house ruling, and why. That being said, no house rules necessary with rumor rewards.

As a rule, rewards only consist of what is found in the rewards section in the quest guide, unless the rulebook says otherwise.

Additionally, I didn't realize you were using Manor of Ravens rumors. Please note that based on the instructions on the quest cards, you can only play one MoR rumor quest card per campaign (the same applies to LotW and Trollfens). On the rumor quest cards from these expansions, it says "If you have already played [any of the other quests from this expansion] discard this card and draw another."

I'm using Manor of Ravens + 4 Hero & Monsters Collections. The issue as I see it isn't Manor of Ravens by itself, but that this particular combination means I'll always end up either skipping the entire mechanic (because running the quests aren't worth it to me as the Overlord) or just doing a predictable cycle of 2 Manor of Ravens encounters + 8 Hero & Monster encounters (divided over the two acts), eventually ending up with the 1 Rumor card that isn't a quest (or a mutually exclusive quest that calls upon drawing a new rumor anyway).

Either I don't use Rumor Cards or choose not to play them at all, not because of some tactical or strategic reason, but because I just can't be bothered, or I engage in a game of relatively reward-less attrition with the other players, where they either keep taking the bait to prevent me from getting a free special Overlord Card, or ignore it again not because of some tactical or strategic reason, but because they can't be bothered, eventually going "Sigh. Just let him have it so we can get on with things."

Like I said, maybe it'd be different if I had the other cards from the other mini-campaigns, because if those those Rumor Card Quest encounters don't specifically call for new rumor cards to be pulled upon conclusion of the first encounter(s) - I know the Manor of Raven encounters don't - and maybe include more non-Quest rumor cards, it might make more sense. For now, I think I'll actually make a houserule/personal restriction to have the Hero & Monster Collection(s) encounters not award a new Rumor Card unless the Overlord actually wins, or maybe not at all.

In my highly personal opinion, there should've been 2 Rumor Cards in each Hero & Monster Collection. 1 for the quest, which would give you a new rumor card upon conclusion, and one non-Quest Rumor Card that does not result in a new Card drawn, to act as streak-breakers, preventing this endless cycle if you've got a bunch of Hero & Monster Collection(s).

It definitely does help to have the other expansions. Lair and Trollfens rumor quests were very hero favored- not necessarily that they would always win, but the upside to winning was good (usually a relic), and even if they didn't they could try for 4 search tokens and get a shop step. The OL could get a relic, too, but if the heroes were winning campaign quests there was no downside to ignoring the rumor. In short, the rumor mechanic really only helped the heroes (or at least, significantly more than it helped the OL).

H&M rumors addressed this problem by removing relic rewards, reducing max search tokens to 3, and adding a penalty if the card was played but ignored. In this way, the rumor mechanic shifted more toward the OL. More importantly, it provided incentive for both sides to play the rumor. Of course, that assumes you enjoy playing the campaign, and don't just want to "get through it".