I'm so, so sorry guys. I hope we don't make a similar mistake in a few months and elect Donald Trump.

If not Trump, then who? Can you categorically give me a reason (or reasons) not to have him elected? What makes Sanders or Clinton (and let's be frank, the system is rigged for her) a better choice?

Literally anyone is better than Trump. He's a disaster on every level and a horrible human being.

Trump is a complete idiot on foreign policy, which is kind of a big problem for the POTUS.

SANGER: So, it’s a deal you would inherit if you were elected, so what I’m trying to get at is, what would you insist on. Are the restrictions on nuclear not long enough, are the missile restrictions not strong enough?

TRUMP: Certainly the deal is not long enough. Because at the end of the deal they’re going to have great nuclear capability. So certainly the deal isn’t long enough. I would never have given them back the $150 billion under any circumstances. I would’ve never allowed that to happen. They are, they are now rich, and did you notice they’re buying from everybody but the United States? They’re buying planes, they’re buying everything, they’re buying from everybody but the United States. I would never have made the deal.

SANGER: Our law prevents us from selling to them, sir.

TRUMP: Uh, excuse me?

SANGER: Our law prevents us from selling any planes or, we still have sanctions in the U.S. that would prevent the U.S. from being able to sell that equipment.

TRUMP: So, how stupid is that? We give them the money, and we now say, “Go buy Airbus instead of Boeing,” right? So how stupid is that? In itself, what you just said, which is correct by the way, but would they now go and buy, you know, they bought 118 approximately, 118 Airbus planes. They didn’t buy Boeing planes, O.K.? We give them the money, and we say you can’t spend it in the United States, and create wealth and jobs in the United States. And on top of it, they didn’t, they in theory, I guess, cannot do that, you know, based on what I’ve understood. They can’t do that. It’s hard to believe. We gave them $150 billion and they can’t spend it in our country.

SANGER: So you would lift the domestic sanctions so they could buy American goods?

TRUMP: Well, I wouldn’t have given them back the money. So I wouldn’t be in that position. I would never have given them back the – that would never be a part of the negotiation. I would have never, ever given it to them, and I would’ve made a better deal than they made, without the money, and I would’ve made a better deal.

SANGER: The question was about cyber, how would you envision using cyberweapons? Cyberweapons in an attack to take out a power grid in a city, so forth.

TRUMP: First off, we’re so obsolete in cyber. We’re the ones that sort of were very much involved with the creation, but we’re so obsolete, we just seem to be toyed with by so many different countries, already. And we don’t know who’s doing what. We don’t know who’s got the power, who’s got that capability, some people say it’s China, some people say it’s Russia. But certainly cyber has to be a, you know, certainly cyber has to be in our thought process, very strongly in our thought process. Inconceivable that, inconceivable the power of cyber. But as you say, you can take out, you can take out, you can make countries nonfunctioning with a strong use of cyber. I don’t think we’re there. I don’t think we’re as advanced as other countries are, and I think you probably would agree with that. I don’t think we’re advanced, I think we’re going backwards in so many different ways. I think we’re going backwards with our military. I certainly don’t think we are, we move forward with cyber, but other countries are moving forward at a much more rapid pace. We are frankly not being led very well in terms of the protection of this country.

But oh, let's talk about other things.

Like how he said during the Republican debates that he would force American soldiers to commit war crimes.

Or how his health care plan involves dismantling the ACA with nothing to replace it.

Or how his Supreme Court nomination shortlist is includes judges who have consistently ruled against minority and woman rights.

Or how his business strategies are so destructive George W Bush's Treasury Secretary begged people not to vote for him. When George W Bush's cabinet are wary of the Republican candidate, that's not a good sign.

Or how he's a complete laughingstock to nations outside the US.

Or how he lies like a rug, moreso than even the norm for politicians.

Basically, Trump sucks. He sucks bad. Even when talking to Republicans who say they're going to vote for him, they can't seem to actually deny that he's a dishonest, brainless, thin-skinned, loud-mouthed embarrassment to their party. Prominent Republican politicians find themselves in the hilarious position of having to support him to toe the party line while simultaneously disowning him to protect their own reputations during down-ticket elections.

"This childish "I read a short summary of a law and now I know better than the actual experts in this field" point of view is not something to be proud of."

Amen brother. The entire brexit campaign (and a sizeable part of the remain one too) encouraged citizens to believe their own assumptions to be well formed and true - with, of course, a great deal of these assumptions formed by the right-wing press.

What ever happened to Sapere Aude?

My favorite part is how " what is the EU" became the second most googled search term from the UK an hour after the vote.

If so many people who live there don't really know what the EU even is than I am 100% certain the EU is not important.

Hey Velvet,

Sorry but you are making an assumption that's not really justified in the circumstances.....you are assuming that all Brits are intelligent. Easy mistake to make as you associate with the creme de la creme on the FFG forums and get a false impression. But you do need to realise that some Brits make bacteria look smart. If you ever visit the uk before it breaks up, you can generally spot them as they are the ones walking round with copies of either the Sun or Daily Mail newspapers.

If America elects trump we'll have ww3 every nation on the earth vs the US

Man's a fecking idiot who's not even good at business, a habitual liar and as bad as Hilary is he's so much worse.

F

Funny a pic of him should show up here. Fitting, I suppose, given some of the opinions I've read.

Yeah Joey Stalin was crazy

If America elects trump we'll have ww3 every nation on the earth vs the US

Man's a fecking idiot who's not even good at business, a habitual liar and as bad as Hilary is he's so much worse.

Every nation except England- because they voted "out" Plus they have the "special relationship".

"Special relationship" That sounds kinda dirty (well in my mind.) What the hell does that even mean?

President trump meating wth prime minister boris johnson.

I can't even imagine...

And the weird part is... I can't even remember wishing to "live in interesting times."

My favorite part is how " what is the EU" became the second most googled search term from the UK an hour after the vote.

If so many people who live there don't really know what the EU even is than I am 100% certain the EU is not important.

Ah don't know whats an "Eeeyooo" but ahm votin' against it! herpaderp!

Mind you it's not just the brits, I wonder how many people in europe actually know how it works/what it is and which are the members. Plus they kept letting new countries into the club...

Relevant: The cover of next week's New Yorker

Especially appropriate since John Cleese was pro Brexit.

My favorite part is how " what is the EU" became the second most googled search term from the UK an hour after the vote.

If so many people who live there don't really know what the EU even is than I am 100% certain the EU is not important.

Ah don't know whats an "Eeeyooo" but ahm votin' against it! herpaderp!

Mind you it's not just the brits, I wonder how many people in europe actually know how it works/what it is and which are the members. Plus they kept letting new countries into the club...

It's probably kids that pay no attention to world events suddenly hearing nothing but brexit yesterday.

My favorite part is how " what is the EU" became the second most googled search term from the UK an hour after the vote.

If so many people who live there don't really know what the EU even is than I am 100% certain the EU is not important.

Ah don't know whats an "Eeeyooo" but ahm votin' against it! herpaderp!

Mind you it's not just the brits, I wonder how many people in europe actually know how it works/what it is and which are the members. Plus they kept letting new countries into the club...

It's probably kids that pay no attention to world events suddenly hearing nothing but brexit yesterday.

Naw it's UKIP members figuring out what they have been moaning about all these years. This should lead to a realisation among the older ones that they can't retire to the sun and have to stay in England. So look for a spike in heart attacks. Not all doom and gloom as the average age of a UKIP member is probably quite high, this will ease pressure on the NHS and the pension system.

And come to think of it, the money the BBC saves from not having to cough up for their free licence fees they can put into making a program about X wing....so Score! :-)

The contempt for the majority that voted to exit is ridiculous.

The lack of contempt for Hillary is more ridiculous. Everything people fear trump might do, hillary has already done while in positions of governmental power.

I still have no clue what leaving the EU actually does for Britain aside from making travel slightly more complex. I checked the covnversion from dollar to pound and it was already back up 4 cents from the 30 year low. I was hoping to get some cheap Blu rays from amazon.uk, but the difference due to the drop is negligible and not large enough to get me to pull the trigger on my shopping cart.

The contempt for the majority that voted to exit is ridiculous.

The lack of contempt for Hillary is more ridiculous. Everything people fear trump might do, hillary has already done while in positions of governmental power.

I still have no clue what leaving the EU actually does for Britain aside from making travel slightly more complex. I checked the covnversion from dollar to pound and it was already back up 4 cents from the 30 year low. I was hoping to get some cheap Blu rays from amazon.uk, but the difference due to the drop is negligible and not large enough to get me to pull the trigger on my shopping cart.

Are you saying Hillary Clinton has oppressed minorities, alienated America and ruined the economy?

Who keeps their money in cash?

Silver is climbing nicely.

As expected any time there is a whiff of potential instability in a currency.

Folks in the UK should know better anyways. Isn't that where the term 'sterling' came from?

Pfft well just go back to the barter system two French men's head for a chicken.

The contempt for the majority that voted to exit is ridiculous.

The lack of contempt for Hillary is more ridiculous. Everything people fear trump might do, hillary has already done while in positions of governmental power.

I still have no clue what leaving the EU actually does for Britain aside from making travel slightly more complex. I checked the covnversion from dollar to pound and it was already back up 4 cents from the 30 year low. I was hoping to get some cheap Blu rays from amazon.uk, but the difference due to the drop is negligible and not large enough to get me to pull the trigger on my shopping cart.

I don't think it's ridiculous at all. Have you seen the interviews with people who voted out? Seems as though less than one in ten speaks any sense at all.

Are you saying Hillary Clinton has oppressed minorities, alienated America and ruined the economy?

And yes.

The contempt for the majority that voted to exit is ridiculous.

The lack of contempt for Hillary is more ridiculous. Everything people fear trump might do, hillary has already done while in positions of governmental power.

I still have no clue what leaving the EU actually does for Britain aside from making travel slightly more complex. I checked the covnversion from dollar to pound and it was already back up 4 cents from the 30 year low. I was hoping to get some cheap Blu rays from amazon.uk, but the difference due to the drop is negligible and not large enough to get me to pull the trigger on my shopping cart.

I don't think it's ridiculous at all. Have you seen the interviews with people who voted out? Seems as though less than one in ten speaks any sense at all.

Are you saying Hillary Clinton has oppressed minorities, alienated America and ruined the economy?

That's media influencing opinion by choosing which interviews to show.

And yes.

Well, I haven't met anybody who could explain rationally why they wanted to leave either. These rational Brexiters are a strange bunch - one doesn't encounter them in person or in mass media. Ordinarily when I have absolutely no evidence that something exists I don't assume it does. Do you?

Speaking of evidence, can you demonstrate how HC has done those things?

And the weird part is... I can't even remember wishing to "live in interesting times."

I would sooooooo love to be able to read a history textbook from 200 years in the future. What they're going to say about this period would be so fascinating.

I still have no clue what leaving the EU actually does for Britain aside from making travel slightly more complex.

Lessee, an effect might be, probably will be, the evacuation of the City of London, the financial heart of the world, to places like Amsterdam, Frankfurt or Paris. Apperently Asian companies are already beginning to make overtures to the continent.

Apart from a massive loss of income and jobs when those agencies leave, all the supply chain will suffer as well causing an even more significant drop in employment. This will also cause a big decline in housing prices, London currently being almost out of reach for mere mortals. That will of course ripple through in lots of ways, for instance property taxes.

Then you have the hundreds of millions of pounds of subsidies going to several regions such as Yorkshire and Cornwall who are already demanding the government to guarantee the same amount to be paid.

Farming and fishing will lose a lot of subsidies, so there go more jobs, and prices will rise.

Losing unrestricted access to the EU could be a consequence, making things that much more difficult to import and export.

I think the easiest way to handle this, with the least consequences, would be to join the EFTA and then, like Norway and Iceland, join in the EEA which would allow for a very painless customized set of rules and legislation.

I'm not sure how painless it is going to be however, it looks like the top of the EU is taking it personally and are downplaying and disregarding the current sentiment in a lot of other countries where a good many people are fed up with the invasiveness of a lot of EU stuff.

Nobody cares about bananas, but jobs? That's another matter.

The first thing that needs to be done is kill off Schengen, but that won't happen because Eastern Europe won't allow it. And Eastern Europe is the problem: lower income, lower standard and cost of living, countries whose people work at Eastern European companies for an Eastern European wage, expatted to Western Europe to take away the lower segment of jobs.

Truckdrivers, builders, a lot of them are people working at €500 a month, forcing out the local populace who have a legally mandated minimum of about triple that. Which is not a lot to skate by on here.

And while the highly educated are comfortable in their positions or easily able to go someplace else and find a job, and are accomodated by the politicians, the rest is forced out. Seeing their jobs go to other people, seeing their laws go to Brussels, seeing Brussels and governments giving in more and more to companies.

They are feeling left out, left behind, left to rot. And so they become angry and prey to all sorts of forces.

The politicians forgot that nationality runs deep for a lot of people who have no place else to go, that there is a very large segment of the population that hardly gets involved in the political process until you neglect them for too long and then they hit back. And when they do, they hit hard. Guillotines in Paris, dictators hung in their courtyards, walls broken down, burning streets and countries torn apart.

There are forces stirring, and it will be a fine balancing act in the next few years.

And let's all hope Northern Ireland won't try to join Ireland because then the Troubles will be back in full swing.

I don't think it's ridiculous at all. Have you seen the interviews with people who voted out? Seems as though less than one in ten speaks any sense at all.

Are you saying Hillary Clinton has oppressed minorities, alienated America and ruined the economy?

That's media influencing opinion by choosing which interviews to show.

And yes.

Well, I haven't met anybody who could explain rationally why they wanted to leave either. These rational Brexiters are a strange bunch - one doesn't encounter them in person or in mass media. Ordinarily when I have absolutely no evidence that something exists I don't assume it does. Do you?

Speaking of evidence, can you demonstrate how HC has done those things?

Nope, but again, I haven't been following the EU thing, and I don't know everything involved with the vote or the ramifications of actually leaving the EU. I do know I refuse to buy a condo because I don't want a home owner's association to tell me what I can and can't do with my property, so I understand on the surface why some might want to leave.

oppressed minorities, alienated America and ruined the economy...

She voted for the war which funneled money to the military that could have been used for our infrastructure/education/health. So there's one point for ruining the economy. Bailing out her wallstreet friends being another.

Alienation... how about wearing a $12000 suit while speaking about income inequality? Lying about literally everything and thinking she can get away with it because she has money and power yet she herself said once that nobody is too big to go to jail.

Minorities... She's received and accepted over $20,000 in campaign contributions this year from the KKK and was friends with Byrd. He formed his own chapter of the KKK when there wasn't one local to join. “For the KKK, Clinton is our choice,” said Will Quigg, California Grand Dragon. She demonized Bill's **** victims, blaming them instead of him. Hillary's biggest foreign donors are leaders of middle east countries (that she is friends with) that kill people for being gay. She also pays her female staff less than she does her male staff.

#NeverHillary

meh......

Brexit. Grexit. Departugal. Italeave. Fruckoff. Czechout. Oustria. Finish. Slovakout. Latervia. Byegium

I don't think it's ridiculous at all. Have you seen the interviews with people who voted out? Seems as though less than one in ten speaks any sense at all.

Are you saying Hillary Clinton has oppressed minorities, alienated America and ruined the economy?

That's media influencing opinion by choosing which interviews to show.

And yes.

Well, I haven't met anybody who could explain rationally why they wanted to leave either. These rational Brexiters are a strange bunch - one doesn't encounter them in person or in mass media. Ordinarily when I have absolutely no evidence that something exists I don't assume it does. Do you?

Speaking of evidence, can you demonstrate how HC has done those things?

Nope, but again, I haven't been following the EU thing, and I don't know everything involved with the vote or the ramifications of actually leaving the EU. I do know I refuse to buy a condo because I don't want a home owner's association to tell me what I can and can't do with my property, so I understand on the surface why some might want to leave.

oppressed minorities, alienated America and ruined the economy...

She voted for the war which funneled money to the military that could have been used for our infrastructure/education/health. So there's one point for ruining the economy. Bailing out her wallstreet friends being another.

Alienation... how about wearing a $12000 suit while speaking about income inequality? Lying about literally everything and thinking she can get away with it because she has money and power yet she herself said once that nobody is too big to go to jail.

Minorities... She's received and accepted over $20,000 in campaign contributions this year from the KKK and was friends with Byrd. He formed his own chapter of the KKK when there wasn't one local to join. “For the KKK, Clinton is our choice,” said Will Quigg, California Grand Dragon. She demonized Bill's **** victims, blaming them instead of him. Hillary's biggest foreign donors are leaders of middle east countries (that she is friends with) that kill people for being gay. She also pays her female staff less than she does her male staff.

#NeverHillary

Don't get me wrong, I'm no HC fan (I supported Sanders), but it's a matter of degree. Likening her to Trump is like comparing Valorum to Palpatine. Yeah, they may both be pretty bad, but one is so much worse!

I still have no clue what leaving the EU actually does for Britain aside from making travel slightly more complex.

Lessee, an effect might be, probably will be, the evacuation of the City of London, the financial heart of the world, to places like Amsterdam, Frankfurt or Paris. Apperently Asian companies are already beginning to make overtures to the continent.

Apart from a massive loss of income and jobs when those agencies leave, all the supply chain will suffer as well causing an even more significant drop in employment. This will also cause a big decline in housing prices, London currently being almost out of reach for mere mortals. That will of course ripple through in lots of ways, for instance property taxes.

Then you have the hundreds of millions of pounds of subsidies going to several regions such as Yorkshire and Cornwall who are already demanding the government to guarantee the same amount to be paid.

Farming and fishing will lose a lot of subsidies, so there go more jobs, and prices will rise.

Losing unrestricted access to the EU could be a consequence, making things that much more difficult to import and export.

I think the easiest way to handle this, with the least consequences, would be to join the EFTA and then, like Norway and Iceland, join in the EEA which would allow for a very painless customized set of rules and legislation.

I'm not sure how painless it is going to be however, it looks like the top of the EU is taking it personally and are downplaying and disregarding the current sentiment in a lot of other countries where a good many people are fed up with the invasiveness of a lot of EU stuff.

Nobody cares about bananas, but jobs? That's another matter.

The first thing that needs to be done is kill off Schengen, but that won't happen because Eastern Europe won't allow it. And Eastern Europe is the problem: lower income, lower standard and cost of living, countries whose people work at Eastern European companies for an Eastern European wage, expatted to Western Europe to take away the lower segment of jobs.

Truckdrivers, builders, a lot of them are people working at €500 a month, forcing out the local populace who have a legally mandated minimum of about triple that. Which is not a lot to skate by on here.

And while the highly educated are comfortable in their positions or easily able to go someplace else and find a job, and are accomodated by the politicians, the rest is forced out. Seeing their jobs go to other people, seeing their laws go to Brussels, seeing Brussels and governments giving in more and more to companies.

They are feeling left out, left behind, left to rot. And so they become angry and prey to all sorts of forces.

The politicians forgot that nationality runs deep for a lot of people who have no place else to go, that there is a very large segment of the population that hardly gets involved in the political process until you neglect them for too long and then they hit back. And when they do, they hit hard. Guillotines in Paris, dictators hung in their courtyards, walls broken down, burning streets and countries torn apart.

There are forces stirring, and it will be a fine balancing act in the next few years.

And let's all hope Northern Ireland won't try to join Ireland because then the Troubles will be back in full swing.

It's a tricky one - certainly politics is full of wankers who ignore the will of the young and the poor, and such politicians deserve our scorn for that, but the people who don't vote most of the time have to take some of the responsibility. We wouldn't have governments so biased in favour of pensioners at the expense of students for example if that wasn't were the votes were. These people who feel who left behind shouldn't have elected the Tories - what did they think would happen?

It's symptomatic of our whole political system. People say they want honest politicians, but they punish those who are honest and elect people who talk bull and never actually answer questions. People said they wanted a less Punch and Judy style Prime Ministers' Questions, but when Corbyn gave them that they complain he's not being "tough" enough.

Sure, the younger people now complaining that the elderly have sold them out, well, decisions are made by those who show up. And they didn't.

But the politicians have forgotten about their countries so much that others are now tapping into the sentiment that led to the shooting of czars, or more frighteningly: Germany pre WW1; hungering for recognition, feeling disregarded (which is the proper translation for the Dutch miskend, but lacks the jealous malice of the original).

It's a current being tapped into all over the world, from Poland, to Greece, Turkey, USA, Russia and now the UK. It is always slumbering with it seemingly only having been burned out of Germany who are currently too afraid of wakening that old ghost. And rightly so.

A democracy can be a great outlet for those sentiments by channeling them in the right ways, but they've been focusing too much on each other and declaring the means the goals.

And now we're in a big mess that's only getting started.

Actually just had a glimmer of a solution to all our problems. We do a swap with the USA. Trump supporters for remain voters. we'd have to work out what the exchange rate was, is one Remainer worth a Trumper for example? Maybe go on GBP/Dollar exchange rate which just got a lot more favourable for the US. So you get to send approx 1.3 Trumpers for every remainer that goes there. At that rate you'ed get to send about 21 million Trumpers here. (The rate should be higher though, so you'ed probably be able to send more than that)

If we can't agree an exchange rate we could try sweetening the pot and bring Prince Harry, he's got to be worth a few million trumpers the way US women swoon over him every time he goes over there :-) This could also have effect of maybe starting an official US ruling dynasty instead of the unofficial Clinton/Bush ones you have going on :-)

Another advantage to the swap, trump would only have to rebuild (the Roman foundations are still there in most places) a wall 84 miles long to keep the foreigners out. And I'm betting the Scots wouldn't mind giving a few quid to make sure the wall was high enough to stop escapes from the south.

See how easy solutions are? I should apply to be a diplomat :-)

Any other suggestions would be most welcome I need a laugh :-)