My Demolishing opponent seems to do quite well with the APT critical effects, so repair crews may just slow his damage curve down enough.

I remain unconvinced that Tractor Beams and Slicer Techs will cut Demolisher down enough to matter. Slowing him down with Tractor Beams isn't doing anything if you manage just one TB and Slicer Techs are void if he takes a Navigation Team. Not just that but in terms of points the Flotilla is now in the 40 points range and well worth looking at shooting for the VP's at 25(ish) the repair crews may be deemed harmless enough as to pass under the radar.

The only reliable way for Demolisher to wipe out a flotilla is to devote a first+last attack to it with Intel Officer or generate reliable Accuracy results (Sensor Teams on a Gladiator-II). You can get around the Slicer Tractor* combination with a Nav Officer, but it increases the cost of the Gladiator to largely counter a specific build of flotilla and the Nav Officer sits in the chair that Wulff or an Intel Officer would've preferred; there are ways around it but they're expensive in terms of points and/or effort and can leave you with a Demolisher which is much less potent against heavier targets just to handle flotillas.

*"Slicer Tractor" is the name of my Slayer-style heavy thrash metal band that only covers Toby Keith songs.

Has anyone else heard the rumour that I got from my local store manager last night saying that flotillas will not be classified as a small ship? But actually as a new class thus no tractor beaming...

Could be a mistake, not hanging my hat on it but will be interesting.

Slicer Tools is a small dagger. It can really keep you from doing what you want but it won't stop much of an attack. It will annoy, aggravate, and very Demolisher and other such ships becuase it will limit their options.

The main goal of a Slicer Beams Flotilla is to negate that Engine Techs. 1 hit with the Tractor Beams and that token is gone, one hit with the Slicer Tools and you won't be using that Engine Techs next turn either. It doesn't have to be a silver bullet but it is a great stab to the thigh.

Cheap anti squadron plinker with point defence reroute circuits maybe?

Toryn Farr goes a lot further and provided her benefit is spread between 2+ targets, is more cost-effective. The two together wouldn't seem to be very cost-effective.

Plus I like keeping that offensive retrofit slot open for Expanded Hangars, Boosted Comms, or Tractor Beams, depending.

*slow claps*

Has anyone else heard the rumour that I got from my local store manager last night saying that flotillas will not be classified as a small ship? But actually as a new class thus no tractor beaming...

Could be a mistake, not hanging my hat on it but will be interesting.

Flotillas follow the same rules for ships with one exception.

My Demolishing opponent seems to do quite well with the APT critical effects, so repair crews may just slow his damage curve down enough.

I remain unconvinced that Tractor Beams and Slicer Techs will cut Demolisher down enough to matter. Slowing him down with Tractor Beams isn't doing anything if you manage just one TB and Slicer Techs are void if he takes a Navigation Team. Not just that but in terms of points the Flotilla is now in the 40 points range and well worth looking at shooting for the VP's at 25(ish) the repair crews may be deemed harmless enough as to pass under the radar.

The only reliable way for Demolisher to wipe out a flotilla is to devote a first+last attack to it with Intel Officer or generate reliable Accuracy results (Sensor Teams on a Gladiator-II). You can get around the Slicer Tractor* combination with a Nav Officer, but it increases the cost of the Gladiator to largely counter a specific build of flotilla and the Nav Officer sits in the chair that Wulff or an Intel Officer would've preferred; there are ways around it but they're expensive in terms of points and/or effort and can leave you with a Demolisher which is much less potent against heavier targets just to handle flotillas.

*"Slicer Tractor" is the name of my Slayer-style heavy thrash metal band that only covers Toby Keith songs.

Actually, a number of non-accuracy options can kill flotillas. Accuracy results are simply the most effective for the cost.

Method one: use Intel to eliminate the defense token

Method 2: Use multiple attacks to force the player to spend the token before Demolisher activates

Method 3: Ram the flotilla to death.

Method 4: Use a special effect to force the flotilla to discard defense tokens (currently not cost effective).

Method 5: Summon the power of Thor, smite your opponent from across the table, and take his plastic spaceships as your own.

All 5 are perfectly legitimate strategies, and I'm looking forward to using each at the right moment at Gencon.

My Demolishing opponent seems to do quite well with the APT critical effects, so repair crews may just slow his damage curve down enough.

I remain unconvinced that Tractor Beams and Slicer Techs will cut Demolisher down enough to matter. Slowing him down with Tractor Beams isn't doing anything if you manage just one TB and Slicer Techs are void if he takes a Navigation Team. Not just that but in terms of points the Flotilla is now in the 40 points range and well worth looking at shooting for the VP's at 25(ish) the repair crews may be deemed harmless enough as to pass under the radar.

The only reliable way for Demolisher to wipe out a flotilla is to devote a first+last attack to it with Intel Officer or generate reliable Accuracy results (Sensor Teams on a Gladiator-II). You can get around the Slicer Tractor* combination with a Nav Officer, but it increases the cost of the Gladiator to largely counter a specific build of flotilla and the Nav Officer sits in the chair that Wulff or an Intel Officer would've preferred; there are ways around it but they're expensive in terms of points and/or effort and can leave you with a Demolisher which is much less potent against heavier targets just to handle flotillas.

*"Slicer Tractor" is the name of my Slayer-style heavy thrash metal band that only covers Toby Keith songs.

Actually, a number of non-accuracy options can kill flotillas. Accuracy results are simply the most effective for the cost.

Method one: use Intel to eliminate the defense token

Method 2: Use multiple attacks to force the player to spend the token before Demolisher activates

Method 3: Ram the flotilla to death.

Method 4: Use a special effect to force the flotilla to discard defense tokens (currently not cost effective).

Method 5: Summon the power of Thor, smite your opponent from across the table, and take his plastic spaceships as your own.

All 5 are perfectly legitimate strategies, and I'm looking forward to using each at the right moment at Gencon.

I like the options but let's go over them with some of my thoughts.

Method 1: this is my plan. They won't be my first target to get rid of but if they pose an issue or I can get a Commander by jove I will use this most likely.

Method 2: The option of the TRC user.

Method 3: please? If I can get a ship to waste an entire turn or 2 by just sitting in one place at the cost of 18 to 31 points. . . I think I will be happy.

Method 4: While special effects? Injured Crew is a crit, NK7 still requires that you have a crit after defense tokens, Nym is the same as NK7's.

Method 5: Please get this on camera.

Method 5: Please get this on camera.

I used to like the VSD with black die because it was cheaper for some reason and black die hit harder. Then i noticed i almost never get range with it since that ship is so sluggish lol. Havnt used that ship variant since.

The funny thing is, this seems to fly in the face of what a lot of other people say about the Victory....

...

So that must mean both ships have merit and a place, right? Its not that one is Crap. Its just that one is crap for you.

I somewhat think this is the most accurate and important post in this thread. And the most applicable to the OP's original question.. The game isn't a steady state. What you consider good might only be good due to your skill, your bias, your meta's preference, a perception of the larger meta. And it can all change it a unrelated release or a slightly missed interaction.

Has anyone else heard the rumour that I got from my local store manager last night saying that flotillas will not be classified as a small ship? But actually as a new class thus no tractor beaming...

Could be a mistake, not hanging my hat on it but will be interesting.

As Amanal has Shown:

The Flotilla Rules Card they spoiled and showed, says they are a Ships with only one specific exception. (Overlapping)

Anything else would be another Exception, of which they are not excepting.

Ship Size is based on the Size of its Base.

A Flotilla follows all rules for Ships. (Which would include Base Size)

Which would make Gozantis and GR-75s "Small Ships" with the Flotilla Rule.

Your Local Store manager is, as far as we can tell at this point in time, incorrect... And since there is no more information (everything is spoiled) before release, it would require an Errata in the FAQ (not just an FAQ) to change it now.

A lot of people want it to not be a small ship so a lot of things (Motti, Tractor Beams) don't apply with it... But its unfortunately wishlisting.

Note, this does not proclude the eventuality of having "Massed Flotillas" on Small or Large Bases... And following the Flotilla Rules with them...

Has anyone else heard the rumour that I got from my local store manager last night saying that flotillas will not be classified as a small ship? But actually as a new class thus no tractor beaming...

Could be a mistake, not hanging my hat on it but will be interesting.

As Amanal has Shown:

The Flotilla Rules Card they spoiled and showed, says they are a Ships with only one specific exception. (Overlapping)

Anything else would be another Exception, of which they are not excepting.

Ship Size is based on the Size of its Base.

A Flotilla follows all rules for Ships. (Which would include Base Size)

Which would make Gozantis and GR-75s "Small Ships" with the Flotilla Rule.

Your Local Store manager is, as far as we can tell at this point in time, incorrect... And since there is no more information (everything is spoiled) before release, it would require an Errata in the FAQ (not just an FAQ) to change it now.

A lot of people want it to not be a small ship so a lot of things (Motti, Tractor Beams) don't apply with it... But its unfortunately wishlisting.

Note, this does not proclude the eventuality of having "Massed Flotillas" on Small or Large Bases... And following the Flotilla Rules with them...

If it was not a small ship it could not affect Demolisher. . . I would be so crushed. . . It would be 10 points that would go to another Intel Officer hough

But as I've demonstrated, beyond an out-of-the-blue errata (and a whole new definition of what is a ship and what isn't), I think its safe.

The usefulness of the combat retrofit I see at the moment comes from the slicer/speed bump builds. The blue dice allows it to pepper it's target with fire for your other ships to then lay into. At the same time, being a throwaway ship it wants to be cheap which makes transport desired.

For 20 points I can have that on a Flotilla that just pokes around behind my more important ship feeding it the commands I want or enhancing the ones it is taking.

If you are playing Rebels pay the extra three points hand hand over dials and tokens.

Amanal, I don't think the question was "what are GR75s good for?" so much as it was "what is the combat retrofit GR75 specifically good for compared to the regular unarmed GR75?"

For what it's worth I do really like the Leia + Comms Net combo and there's nothing wrong with mentioning it. Definitely one of the configurations I was most excited to see on the table.

Leia basically lets you set up another ship as Raymus combo, which can be a great option for running stuff like Yavaris and Salvation together.

Fire lanes

Opening Salvo

Precision Strike

There ya go, thats what the combat refits are for.

Real Trolling:

Combat Retrofit

Bright Hope

Lando

Slicer tools

=37 points

As long as you avoid major arcs, your opponent isn't going to take this out in 2 shots, and probably not even 3. Scatter, Evade, Lando, -1 damage, still mess with their strategy. And you can continue to plunk away at their ships and squadrons for every turn that you go unhindered. With some prodigious maneuvering, you can use your opponent's ships to obstruct squadron attacks to your rear, and thereby severely reduce the vast majority of squadron threats against you.

Has anyone else heard the rumour that I got from my local store manager last night saying that flotillas will not be classified as a small ship? But actually as a new class thus no tractor beaming...

Could be a mistake, not hanging my hat on it but will be interesting.

As Amanal has Shown:

The Flotilla Rules Card they spoiled and showed, says they are a Ships with only one specific exception. (Overlapping)

Anything else would be another Exception, of which they are not excepting.

Ship Size is based on the Size of its Base.

A Flotilla follows all rules for Ships. (Which would include Base Size)

Which would make Gozantis and GR-75s "Small Ships" with the Flotilla Rule.

Your Local Store manager is, as far as we can tell at this point in time, incorrect... And since there is no more information (everything is spoiled) before release, it would require an Errata in the FAQ (not just an FAQ) to change it now.

A lot of people want it to not be a small ship so a lot of things (Motti, Tractor Beams) don't apply with it... But its unfortunately wishlisting.

Note, this does not proclude the eventuality of having "Massed Flotillas" on Small or Large Bases... And following the Flotilla Rules with them...

The thing is, there is only the inference that these are small ships because they are on a small ship base. And the rule card doesn't even refer to a small ship base.

So I think at present the only answer is "there is not enough information either way - only an inference that may not be relevant to the decision"

The thing is, there is only the inference that these are small ships because they are on a small ship base. And the rule card doesn't even refer to a small ship base.

So I think at present the only answer is "there is not enough information either way - only an inference that may not be relevant to the decision"

Disagreed. If flotillas counted as a different size of ship, then it would be on their summary card. It isn't, so they don't. There's not going to be an extra summary card hidden away somewhere that amounts to "oops, they also by the way don't count as small ships."

Ship sizes are classified by their base size. Please check the Rule book. Also the FAQ which changes the size of a large base to what we use now.

If Flotillas didn't count as Small Ships, they would break a number of upgrades in the game, including General Cracker (who comes with the GR75), Tractor Beams and G-8 Grav Well Projectors.

They are small ships. They are also Flotillas.

If Flotillas didn't count as Small Ships, they would break a number of upgrades in the game, including General Cracker (who comes with the GR75), Tractor Beams and G-8 Grav Well Projectors.

They are small ships. They are also Flotillas.

Yup. This will be the first Subclass of ship in Armada which means we could see more in the future

FFG will have to update their FAQ on what ship is what. The Rules Reference Guide has all of wave 1 and that's it.

Lets see. To me either option is valid, although i think its better for the game if they are not small ships.