I can not come up with a fleet were I want to spend those extra points over the base one. Blue AS I'd nice but.... Idk just not really feeling that version. Anyone end feel this way? Sure anyone end feel the opposite?

eh it's the same as with most ships, there's almost always a far preferred default due to the changes between versions not seeming to merit the increase in points

the cr90 is the opposite as the A is vastly preferred, especially ever since TLRCs

Nebs can actually be rocked either way, depending on what you want out of them (squadron dedicated or not, basically)

the VSD-1 is overwhelmingly preferred from what I've seen. The VSD-2 has a nice battery armament but a crazy 12 point jump

literally havn't seen a GSD-2 fielded ever

Afmk2s are almost exclusively B

The raider-1 seems to see far more table time than the raider-2, even though the raider-2 has ion weapon shenanigans

havn't seen much of the shrimp, but when I have it's the torpedo frigate. I can imagine the scout with Akbar, though

I personally don't see the appeal of the assault mon-cal at all; always stuck to the cheaper Command variant even if I don't use it to support squadrons ever

the ISD is actually like the Neb, one of the few ships I see interchange frequently between the mark 1 and 2 (generally mark 1 for squadrons and mark 2 for gunship, i.e gunnery team + ECM)

I agree with most of that but I use the cr90b a decent amount, and I think we may start to see the af2 A pop up a little more often. I have definitely settled on the torp over the scout though.

I think the primary appeal is the blue anti squadron dice, which allows the GR75s to flak from a further distance; this seems to be a more appealing chassis to combine with Boosted Comms for that reason (rather than the regular transports which would be better with Expanded Hangar Bays).

Torryn Farr seems to "unlock" the combat GR75s. You can reroll a blue flak dice or your single blue anti-ship dice to "fix" accuracy results. Plus on that note Concentrate Fire is much more valuable with combat GR75s than with the unarmed ones.

This isn't to say "Combat GR75s are clearly the best GR75s." This is to say "there appears to be a good argument made for including them in the right fleet builds instead of always defaulting to the unarmed GR75s."

I can not come up with a fleet were I want to spend those extra points over the base one. Blue AS I'd nice but.... Idk just not really feeling that version. Anyone end feel this way? Sure anyone end feel the opposite?

I can see fleets wanting more AS and willing to pay for it (and black AS range usually doesn't cut it for transport). Another reason for the upgrade is the ability to sit on a remote fire lanes token.

6 points difference seems to be a lot.. The black AA die might not defend against Rhymer and is more defensive in nature due to limited but has much more consistent damage. The single blue anti-ship armament is not worth it.

As to the MC30 i really like the Scout version when paired with Ackbar and TRC and it does a surprising amount of consistent damage at red range . Add Ordnance experts and perhaps APTs and it does horrific damage at black range with 4 red + TRC and 4 Black + APT and rerolls.

i feel that way about literally every ship. The alternative makes no sense...either in points vs what you get or what you get to begin with lol.

I used to like the VSD with black die because it was cheaper for some reason and black die hit harder. Then i noticed i almost never get range with it since that ship is so sluggish lol. Havnt used that ship variant since.

I used to like the VSD with black die because it was cheaper for some reason and black die hit harder. Then i noticed i almost never get range with it since that ship is so sluggish lol. Havnt used that ship variant since.

The funny thing is, this seems to fly in the face of what a lot of other people say about the Victory....

...

So that must mean both ships have merit and a place, right? Its not that one is Crap. Its just that one is crap for you.

i almost never get front arc with black dice unless my opponent does something stupid or i risk being unable to turn sharp enough to not go off the edge. Im always JUUUUST out of range.

i almost never get front arc with black dice unless my opponent does something stupid or i risk being unable to turn sharp enough to not go off the edge. Im always JUUUUST out of range.

The opposing argument to this is that with the VSD 2 you get into *blue* range you also tend to be in black range. So maybe its about deployment or activation order or even (and this is often under-estimated) skill at placing obstacles.

Can I put in a petition to make this about GR75s again?

The Assault Mon cal showing up isn't entirely the ship's fault. I would gladly take one... if there was a second defensive retrofit worth a **** after the reversal on the Xi7 ruling (Personally, I think Xi7 should have limited you to one shield per section, allowing it to limit the effectiveness of Advanced Projectors without totally killing them).

Can I put in a petition to make this about GR75s again?

You can.

But I still need to go make that All Ships are Beautiful meme...

Can I put in a petition to make this about GR75s again?

You can.

But I still need to go make that All Ships are Beautiful meme...

That still looks like a turd...

except the 80...

That still looks like a turd...

Only when you have a crappy mindset.

Can I put in a petition to make this about GR75s again?

You can.

But I still need to go make that All Ships are Beautiful meme...

DO IT!

The Assault Mon cal showing up isn't entirely the ship's fault. I would gladly take one... if there was a second defensive retrofit worth a **** after the reversal on the Xi7 ruling (Personally, I think Xi7 should have limited you to one shield per section, allowing it to limit the effectiveness of Advanced Projectors without totally killing them).

Advanced Projectors are just fine. Aside from ISDs and other MC80S what's taking them? Not CR90s. Not Nebulons. Not Gladiators. Not squadrons.

And for such huge ships, the ability to completely mitigate that damage and restrict it only to the biggest threats is frankly quite valuable.

I run an XI7 Devastator. When all 12 dice roll, not much still stand up to it.

But not much will instantly die to it either. That's where Demolisher and squadrons come in, and they can be easily stopped by Advanced Projectors.

AP is wonderful against demo

Getting back to Toryn Farr, there has been some discussion on the wording of her ability as to if it can be used once per attack (meaning once per squadron attacked while flakking, for example) or once while making an attack (meaning once at all while attacking squadrons, for example). I suspect it will be FAQed to the former.

Anyways, assuming Toryn works as I believe, she improves the flakking average damage from an armed GR75 to the same odds (75% chance of a damage on a blue dice) as a black dice, but at longer range. She improves the chance of a single blue dice dealing a point of damage against a ship from 75% to 93.75% (meaning the average damage goes from 0.75 to 0.9375).

If you Concentrate Fire versus a ship, you have a 43.75% chance of rolling 1+ Accuracy results with 2 blue dice. With such a small dice pool, those Accuracy results are usually worthless compared to more damage. Therefore, you should reroll one of those dice (there's a 6.25% chance you get double Accuracies, but generally should usually be only one), which has a 75% chance of coming up as a hit or crit. So therefore... 43.75% * 75% = 33% of the time, Toryn Farr would add one damage to a Concentrate Firing Combat GR75, which improves its average damage from 1.5 to (1.5 + (.33*1)) 1.83, a 22% overall increase.

Therefore Toryn is likely best situated on a non-blue dice ship(say... Salvation Nebulon-B Refit or an unarmed GR75) that wants to linger near combat GR75s and/or other ships with substantial blue flak (Nebulon-B Escort Frigates) for maximum benefit. This is particularly true if the flotillas plan to push some fighters around, as they benefit from Toryn as well.

Those numbers are small, but significant.

I agree - She needs to sit somewhere nearby, but on a ship she can't do squat for, to maximise her potential.

6 points difference seems to be a lot.. The black AA die might not defend against Rhymer and is more defensive in nature due to limited but has much more consistent damage. The single blue anti-ship armament is not worth it.

As to the MC30 i really like the Scout version when paired with Ackbar and TRC and it does a surprising amount of consistent damage at red range . Add Ordnance experts and perhaps APTs and it does horrific damage at black range with 4 red + TRC and 4 Black + APT and rerolls.

I made a list with two MC30's with exact that combo two days ago

Cheap anti squadron plinker with point defence reroute circuits maybe?

Although we see almost one version of each ship so far preferred in most builds, my sense is that most ship types have specific builds that are suited to them. The issue is likely that we're just not seeing the kinds of builds in which one type thrives. Some of that is the current meta, but some of it is simply a failure of imagination. Flotillas are going to shake up the meta. That blue die may come in handy in a number of ways eventually, especially when we look at ways to get a little extra dice around the margins. Margins make a big difference.

Cheap anti squadron plinker with point defence reroute circuits maybe?

Toryn Farr goes a lot further and provided her benefit is spread between 2+ targets, is more cost-effective. The two together wouldn't seem to be very cost-effective.

Plus I like keeping that offensive retrofit slot open for Expanded Hangars, Boosted Comms, or Tractor Beams, depending.

My Demolishing opponent seems to do quite well with the APT critical effects, so repair crews may just slow his damage curve down enough.

I remain unconvinced that Tractor Beams and Slicer Techs will cut Demolisher down enough to matter. Slowing him down with Tractor Beams isn't doing anything if you manage just one TB and Slicer Techs are void if he takes a Navigation Team. Not just that but in terms of points the Flotilla is now in the 40 points range and well worth looking at shooting for the VP's at 25(ish) the repair crews may be deemed harmless enough as to pass under the radar.