The upgrade says that if you are cloaked at the "End of the round" you roll an attack die and on a focus, discard the upgrade and decloak.
1) Does this happen AFTER the End Phase, after focus and evade tokens are removed from the board?
2) If I have a Stygium Particle Accelerator , do I get to perform the evade and keep the token going into the next round?
1) It's not confirmed but I believe so.
2) As long as you didn't already use an evade action earlier in the round.
No and yes, so no.
Because it occurs during the end phase, that evade doesn't make it.
That card really would have been fine if it was a "discard the token or the card" and not both.
No and yes, so no.
Because it occurs during the end phase, that evade doesn't make it.
That card really would have been fine if it was a "discard the token or the card" and not both.
You clean up during the end phase. Then you roll a die at the end of the round which happens after the end phase finishes.
So you absolutely get to keep the SPA granted token if you decloak as part of loosing the Cloaking Device.
This question is explored in an older thread that ended unresolved on the subject of splitting hairs between "end of the round" and "end phase" and we're still waiting on clarification. I don't know of any examples of other interactions that occur within that theoretical space. However, my read on the intent is that "end of the round" is the "end of the end phase" and not "after the end phase" meaning that the tokens would still be removed given that it's still "during" the end phase. To suggest otherwise, without some other precedent using other cards or abilities, or formal rulings, would be inventing a new trigger space to fit an assumed interaction.
I agree with Mozic. This "end of the round" timing is still an undefined point, and until FFG clarify what their intent was, any answer here is purely speculative and based on personal opinion rather than actual rulings.
To push the point further, I would expect that if they intended for the evade to carry over, they would simply have made the roll occur "at the start of the round" rather than at the end of the previous one, which is understood to mean the start of the Planning Phase (in such a way that the players can plan their dials in reaction to the results of that interaction).
Plus, thematically, getting the evade token when you decloak feels like it belongs as part of the benefit of having a cloaking device. Which you no longer have if you blow the roll and have to decloak.
No clear raw answer, needs faq or errata.
To push the point further, I would expect that if they intended for the evade to carry over, they would simply have made the roll occur "at the start of the round" rather than at the end of the previous one, which is understood to mean the start of the Planning Phase (in such a way that the players can plan their dials in reaction to the results of that interaction).
You imply that FFG take care of these interaction when designing... something that is clearly not the case when we look at blunder they had to "fix" with weird ruling...
Like the Upgrade card name rule not applying to the Tie/X1 title versus Tie Advance Prototype for no rule reason, other then it would be WAY to powerful.
They could have looked at their stuff and said... MMmmmmm lets just name it Tie Prototype to prevent any confusion... but no it would have been to easy...
This question is explored in an older thread that ended unresolved on the subject of splitting hairs between "end of the round" and "end phase" and we're still waiting on clarification. I don't know of any examples of other interactions that occur within that theoretical space. However, my read on the intent is that "end of the round" is the "end of the end phase" and not "after the end phase" meaning that the tokens would still be removed given that it's still "during" the end phase. To suggest otherwise, without some other precedent using other cards or abilities, or formal rulings, would be inventing a new trigger space to fit an assumed interaction.
Since FFG already already splits hairs on wording such as "Touching - the End Phase and End of the Round are 2 distinctly different things.
I ask this because I plan to try a list with this combo and just want to know what to do. I will send it on to FFG and see if I can get an answer.
Agent Kallus is another card that technicaly comes into play outside of the defined phases of a round, at the "start" of the first round before the planning phase.This question is explored in an older thread that ended unresolved on the subject of splitting hairs between "end of the round" and "end phase" and we're still waiting on clarification. I don't know of any examples of other interactions that occur within that theoretical space. However, my read on the intent is that "end of the round" is the "end of the end phase" and not "after the end phase" meaning that the tokens would still be removed given that it's still "during" the end phase. To suggest otherwise, without some other precedent using other cards or abilities, or formal rulings, would be inventing a new trigger space to fit an assumed interaction.
Since FFG already already splits hairs on wording such as "Touching - the End Phase and End of the Round are 2 distinctly different things.
I ask this because I plan to try a list with this combo and just want to know what to do. I will send it on to FFG and see if I can get an answer.
"At the start of the first round" would still be, like all other "At the start of the round" cards, the start of the planning phase. Contacting FFG is definitely the best bet on this one though. A very good question!
A Round is a well defined term in the RRG.
It consists of 4 phases.
Winning the game takes place if at the end of a Round one player has no ships left on the table.
So we have clear examples ofa Round and things that happen at the end of the round.
A Round is a well defined term in the RRG.
It consists of 4 phases.
Winning the game takes place if at the end of a Round one player has no ships left on the table.
So we have clear examples ofa Round and things that happen at the end of the round.
I'm not trying to deny that rounds exist and that a round must end for another to begin, but there's currently nothing that suggests card text telling you to do something at the end of the round would somehow evade the phase that is inseparably linked to the ending of a round, which is the End phase. There's no space between the end of the End Phase and the start of the Planning Phase. "End of a round" and "Start of a round" refer to both of those specific points and not a pocket in-between.
I'm definitely going to keep an eye out for the eventual FFG ruling/clarification on this, and I won't be surprised if it results in the SPA Evade token not sticking around, but until and unless that happens, in events I judge I'm going the other way.
Why? The clearing away of Focus and Evade tokens is a singular event that happens "during" the End phase, and I see no reason to assume that "during the End phase" happens after "at the end of the End phase". (I skipped the step where we stipulate that "at the end of the turn" is the same as "at the end of the End phase", or at least not before it.)
All phases have a start, a during, and an end, in that order.
No one seems to disagree that decloaking happens before the first ship activates during the activation phase.
So why would something that happens at the end of a phase happen before something that happens during that phase?
Nobody disagrees on when decloak occurs because it's explicitly stated in the rules reference:
At the start of the Activation phase, after players have resolved all other abilities that trigger at the start of the Activation phase, each ship may spend a cloak token to decloak, starting with the ship with the lowest pilot skill (using initiative to break ties).
Clearly enough people are falling onto both sides of the scenario that this thread should probably end the same way that the old one did with one of those "agree to disagree and sit tight" type conclusions.
The new FAQ says you get to keep your evade token going into the next round if you lose the cloaking device.
Yup. It definitely needed to see some clarification, I'm glad that they settled it for us.