I'm feeling as if my armada ability has peaked. It's mainly due to lack of avaliable time but after the game vs Dhat, who played very well, I have decided it's time for me to take a break from my hobby because it just isn't worth it for me at the moment. I'm getting next to no practice, and it really took its toll in today's game.

I'll hang around the forums still but I reckon I won't take part in any more tournaments for the time being (maybe a month or so).

Good luck to everyone else and I look forward to seeing the result of what looks like a very interesting competition.

That's a shame, man.

I hear ya on peaking in Armada, I've had that happen in a few hobbies over the years.

Hope you don't go too far, though - looking forward to playing with you again down the line.

If you want a game message me Vip. I will play you with some fun lists (though what I think is fun is still competitive so be wary )

I'm feeling as if my armada ability has peaked. It's mainly due to lack of avaliable time but after the game vs Dhat, who played very well, I have decided it's time for me to take a break from my hobby because it just isn't worth it for me at the moment. I'm getting next to no practice, and it really took its toll in today's game.

I'll hang around the forums still but I reckon I won't take part in any more tournaments for the time being (maybe a month or so).

Good luck to everyone else and I look forward to seeing the result of what looks like a very interesting competition.

oh, I will be running through that vassal save for people in a bit if they want to watch it

I think Vip had a similar frustration as you Lyr in miscalculating moves slightly due to the perspective difference from vassal and tabletop. I did too once but in my case it didn't have any real effect, (rock hit on a ship that didn't take any real fire).. we both had at a case where our top dial wasn't what we set it too (both times we allowed the change, it was turn 1 for me and on a 1 stack ship for him).

I will say I am up to play others some as it is fun, but a big timesink and my availability is somewhat limited for this kind of game too often. Looking forward to round 2.

I know the frustration of not having practice also.. I just got smoked in a big Blood Bowl tourney before I played Vip, and I have barely played that game in months. Mostly due to Armada

Mala will report the full results, I asked him to and he kindly agreed. For now my congrats for a fine win, well done Mala! I was first player, we played Hyperspace Assault.

I think Vip had a similar frustration as you Lyr in miscalculating moves slightly due to the perspective difference from vassal and tabletop. I did too once but in my case it didn't have any real effect, (rock hit on a ship that didn't take any real fire).. we both had at a case where our top dial wasn't what we set it too (both times we allowed the change, it was turn 1 for me and on a 1 stack ship for him).

I will say I am up to play others some as it is fun, but a big timesink and my availability is somewhat limited for this kind of game too often. Looking forward to round 2.

I know the frustration of not having practice also.. I just got smoked in a big Blood Bowl tourney before I played Vip, and I have barely played that game in months. Mostly due to Armada

I went over the game with another player on here and and he had a different opinion on a ram that changed the entire game. It is frustrating with Vassal because there is no real way to tell if they nicked or not and it is all guess work

I went over the game with another player on here and and he had a different opinion on a ram that changed the entire game. It is frustrating with Vassal because there is no real way to tell if they nicked or not and it is all guess work

I went over the game with another player on here and and he had a different opinion on a ram that changed the entire game. It is frustrating with Vassal because there is no real way to tell if they nicked or not and it is all guess work

vassal is VERY precise so if you are having a problem with a borderline ruling it is not an issue with vassal but with miniature games in general and it would have been 10x worse on the tabletop were there is no Undo button and zoom feature

No a table top would have been crystal clear. They would either be fine or the miniature would not sit right on the board so it would overlap.

Check the log file. It is the first ram I did from my MC30 to his Yavaris turn 2.

I went over the game with another player on here and and he had a different opinion on a ram that changed the entire game. It is frustrating with Vassal because there is no real way to tell if they nicked or not and it is all guess work

vassal is VERY precise so if you are having a problem with a borderline ruling it is not an issue with vassal but with miniature games in general and it would have been 10x worse on the tabletop were there is no Undo button and zoom feature

No a table top would have been crystal clear. They would either be fine or the miniature would not sit right on the board so it would overlap.

Check the log file. It is the first ram I did from my MC30 to his Yavaris turn 2.

These happen, vassal is more precise, that is fact.

Don't confuse the Inability to Correct a mistake with precision

Don't confuse the Inability to Correct a mistake with precision

Once again. Check. The. Vlog.

Don't confuse the Inability to Correct a mistake with precision

Once again. Check. The. Vlog.

It's not going to change my statement though as I have no doubt it was a "disputable" event, I am just saying these events are incredibly rare compared to IRL games

Basically complaining about these rare events is a major Pet peeve of mine.

I guarantee the situation was avoidable and blaming Vassal or the game system is diverting attention away from the real cause witch is almost ALWAYS a player choice

Ok i watched the vlog, yes the ram was very close

I went over the game with another player on here and and he had a different opinion on a ram that changed the entire game.

the problem is *YOU* agreed that it was a ram...

"Lyraeus> - I think I will overlap. . .

Ok i watched the vlog, yes the ram was very close

I went over the game with another player on here and and he had a different opinion on a ram that changed the entire game.

the problem is *YOU* agreed that it was a ram...

"Lyraeus> - I think I will overlap. . .

<Lyraeus> - or not. . . I was worried about that rock

<gowtah> - I'd say you do overlap yav though

<Lyraeus> - side arc for DAYS!

<Lyraeus> - NOOO we nick!

<Lyraeus> - darn. . . "

there is absolutely nothing that can be debated now because YOU agreed with him, if you hadn't (which you were perfectly in your rights to do) and had brought a 3rd party in to rule on it or simply rolled for it, you *Might* have grounds to stand on

as it is now you are simply Contradicting yourself...

You are missing the point. Yes I agree ld that it was a ram because I don't have the experience with Vassal you do or many others. There is also no way to be sure that it was a ram.

I am still new to Vassal so i have to take this on faith till I get the experience to know otherwise.

So it's not a question of whether or not it was my fault. I want to know if it was or was not a ram. This way I can learn for what to look for.

I don't have these issues on a table. I don't have them because I can hover the tool and get a much more accurate representation of where my ship will be. You can't do that in Vassal.

Schrodinger's Collision?

Anyways, thanks for the result postings, guys - I'll update the OP shortly.

Ok i watched the vlog, yes the ram was very close

I went over the game with another player on here and and he had a different opinion on a ram that changed the entire game.

the problem is *YOU* agreed that it was a ram...

"Lyraeus> - I think I will overlap. . .

<Lyraeus> - or not. . . I was worried about that rock

<gowtah> - I'd say you do overlap yav though

<Lyraeus> - side arc for DAYS!

<Lyraeus> - NOOO we nick!

<Lyraeus> - darn. . . "

there is absolutely nothing that can be debated now because YOU agreed with him, if you hadn't (which you were perfectly in your rights to do) and had brought a 3rd party in to rule on it or simply rolled for it, you *Might* have grounds to stand on

as it is now you are simply Contradicting yourself...

You are missing the point. Yes I agree ld that it was a ram because I don't have the experience with Vassal you do or many others. There is also no way to be sure that it was a ram.

I am still new to Vassal so i have to take this on faith till I get the experience to know otherwise.

So it's not a question of whether or not it was my fault. I want to know if it was or was not a ram. This way I can learn for what to look for.

I don't have these issues on a table. I don't have them because I can hover the tool and get a much more accurate representation of where my ship will be. You can't do that in Vassal.

I'm pretty new to vassal too so could end up in the same boat in my game. I guess I'll just ask the observers if there are any, maybe I can draw on people who know this stuff better. I agree though that the tabletop can be just as dodgy at times,I've always found the best way to reduce the impact of the "bumping" issue is just to vocalise more so when I measure a squadron it's about saying that should be in range and having very one agree on that call even before the move. It's not perfect but The more you talk the better it goes IMO. Vassal is a different sort of beast.

Mala will report the full results, I asked him to and he kindly agreed. For now my congrats for a fine win, well done Mala! I was first player, we played Hyperspace Assault.

NebulonB and I played on Saturday.

I scored 233 (picking off 2 corvettes, an Mc30, and gr-95) and Neb scored 112 (getting my Mc30, bright hope gr-95, and an x-wing).

It was a very interesting game between my Dodonna Wave 3 boosted bombers and his speedy Cracken fleet. Neb had the bid and he choose first player. We played my Hyperspace Assault.

I really learned a lot from this game. I'd have to say my biggest takeaway is that Cracken is very forgiving to play against. You can block your own shots and suffer no extra penalty from the obstruction. It can actually be very useful for defense and flotillas can make great little obstructions. I used to think Cracken was a huge bargain buy Admiral but now his 26 points seem more fair. Cracken definitely demands a lot more from the user than the opponent.

It was a really fun game and I want to thank NebulonB again for putting up with my vassal inexperience and shoddy temp internet. First vassal game was a ton of fun and I'll definitely be back for more!

Ok i watched the vlog, yes the ram was very close

I went over the game with another player on here and and he had a different opinion on a ram that changed the entire game.

the problem is *YOU* agreed that it was a ram...

"Lyraeus> - I think I will overlap. . .

<Lyraeus> - or not. . . I was worried about that rock

<gowtah> - I'd say you do overlap yav though

<Lyraeus> - side arc for DAYS!

<Lyraeus> - NOOO we nick!

<Lyraeus> - darn. . . "

there is absolutely nothing that can be debated now because YOU agreed with him, if you hadn't (which you were perfectly in your rights to do) and had brought a 3rd party in to rule on it or simply rolled for it, you *Might* have grounds to stand on

as it is now you are simply Contradicting yourself...

You are missing the point. Yes I agree ld that it was a ram because I don't have the experience with Vassal you do or many others. There is also no way to be sure that it was a ram.

I am still new to Vassal so i have to take this on faith till I get the experience to know otherwise.

So it's not a question of whether or not it was my fault. I want to know if it was or was not a ram. This way I can learn for what to look for.

I don't have these issues on a table. I don't have them because I can hover the tool and get a much more accurate representation of where my ship will be. You can't do that in Vassal.

I'm pretty new to vassal too so could end up in the same boat in my game. I guess I'll just ask the observers if there are any, maybe I can draw on people who know this stuff better. I agree though that the tabletop can be just as dodgy at times,I've always found the best way to reduce the impact of the "bumping" issue is just to vocalise more so when I measure a squadron it's about saying that should be in range and having very one agree on that call even before the move. It's not perfect but The more you talk the better it goes IMO. Vassal is a different sort of beast.

Correct. With Vassal there are a few things I have noticed. Such as ships shifting, points on the maneuver tool shifting, etc. These things also occur which make it more realistic and less precise.

It is what it is. I guess I will go from the bottom ranks and just have to get some 10-0's to catch up.

Hartley and I started our game tonight. We're just through turn 2 but Hartley is having connection problems. (Guess his cable modem is going south)

Anyway, few shots fired in Anger but not too much for damage yet. We're playing Dangerous Territory. Currently I'm up 3 victory tokens so 45-0 for the moment. The real battle is yet to come.

I guess I will go from the bottom ranks and just have to get some 10-0's to catch up.

Don't forget the wildcard entry for final spot in the top 8. A player can lose in the first three rounds and still make the cut.

I guess I will go from the bottom ranks and just have to get some 10-0's to catch up.

Don't forget the wildcard entry for final spot in the top 8. A player can lose in the first three rounds and still make the cut.

I would rather not gamble that.

Ok i watched the vlog, yes the ram was very close

I went over the game with another player on here and and he had a different opinion on a ram that changed the entire game.

the problem is *YOU* agreed that it was a ram...

"Lyraeus> - I think I will overlap. . .

<Lyraeus> - or not. . . I was worried about that rock

<gowtah> - I'd say you do overlap yav though

<Lyraeus> - side arc for DAYS!

<Lyraeus> - NOOO we nick!

<Lyraeus> - darn. . . "

there is absolutely nothing that can be debated now because YOU agreed with him, if you hadn't (which you were perfectly in your rights to do) and had brought a 3rd party in to rule on it or simply rolled for it, you *Might* have grounds to stand on

as it is now you are simply Contradicting yourself...

You are missing the point. Yes I agree ld that it was a ram because I don't have the experience with Vassal you do or many others. There is also no way to be sure that it was a ram.

I am still new to Vassal so i have to take this on faith till I get the experience to know otherwise.

So it's not a question of whether or not it was my fault. I want to know if it was or was not a ram. This way I can learn for what to look for.

I don't have these issues on a table. I don't have them because I can hover the tool and get a much more accurate representation of where my ship will be. You can't do that in Vassal.

I was watching the game live, I magnified the situation (albeit not to maximum because it looked clear enough), for me the bump was evident.

I didnt review, sorry if I hurt feelings, was my objective view then.

Ok i watched the vlog, yes the ram was very close

I went over the game with another player on here and and he had a different opinion on a ram that changed the entire game.

the problem is *YOU* agreed that it was a ram...

"Lyraeus> - I think I will overlap. . .

<Lyraeus> - or not. . . I was worried about that rock

<gowtah> - I'd say you do overlap yav though

<Lyraeus> - side arc for DAYS!

<Lyraeus> - NOOO we nick!

<Lyraeus> - darn. . . "

there is absolutely nothing that can be debated now because YOU agreed with him, if you hadn't (which you were perfectly in your rights to do) and had brought a 3rd party in to rule on it or simply rolled for it, you *Might* have grounds to stand on

as it is now you are simply Contradicting yourself...

You are missing the point. Yes I agree ld that it was a ram because I don't have the experience with Vassal you do or many others. There is also no way to be sure that it was a ram.

I am still new to Vassal so i have to take this on faith till I get the experience to know otherwise.

So it's not a question of whether or not it was my fault. I want to know if it was or was not a ram. This way I can learn for what to look for.

I don't have these issues on a table. I don't have them because I can hover the tool and get a much more accurate representation of where my ship will be. You can't do that in Vassal.

I was watching the game live, I magnified the situation (albeit not to maximum because it looked clear enough), for me the bump was evident.

I didnt review, sorry if I hurt feelings, was my objective view then.

Its fine, I am getting both sides of this though which is where my confusion is coming from

You are missing the point. Yes I agree ld that it was a ram because I don't have the experience with Vassal you do or many others. There is also no way to be sure that it was a ram.

I am still new to Vassal so i have to take this on faith till I get the experience to know otherwise.

So it's not a question of whether or not it was my fault. I want to know if it was or was not a ram. This way I can learn for what to look for.

I don't have these issues on a table. I don't have them because I can hover the tool and get a much more accurate representation of where my ship will be. You can't do that in Vassal.

I pondered for a while whether to stay mute or comment on your behaviour, but I just have to speak up.

There is absolutely a way to be sure it was a ram. Load up a screenshot in MS paint, zoom up, draw boundary lines. I'd do it for you but you might argue I selected the wrong pixels with the gradient.

Vassal is actually MUCH more precise than table top, where maneuver tools have some leeway, get angled because of obstacles, can't fit because of other objects, figs get nudged, and people don't even notch a lot of the time. Contact maneuvers will work on a table because you can usually make them work. Vassal is just unforgiving. Claiming the opposite is nothing else than dishonesty.

But arguing after the fact is irrelevant. We agreed it was a ram, we played it that way, just the way you would do on a table top, and the game is over. What you're doing now is not just contradicting yourself, it is being a very vocal bad sport about making your own mistakes, and grasping at straws to shift the blame wherever you can.

The inevitable result of your numerous posts is that I can't help but feel that you're implying I abused vassal to get an advantage. And I can't let this fly. I made mistakes, you made bigger mistakes, I came out on top, end of story.

That game was probably my worst experience ever playing swa, I would enjoy greatly not to have to deal with this kind of aftermath too.

But arguing after the fact is irrelevant. We agreed it was a ram, we played it that way, just the way you would do on a table top, and the game is over. What you're doing now is not just contradicting yourself, it is being a very vocal bad sport about making your own mistakes, and grasping at straws to shift the blame wherever you can.

The inevitable result of your numerous posts is that I can't help but feel that you're implying I abused vassal to get an advantage. And I can't let this fly. I made mistakes, you made bigger mistakes, I came out on top, end of story.

That game was probably my worst experience ever playing swa, I would enjoy greatly not to have to deal with this kind of aftermath too.

You make a fair point Gowtah and frankly I hope everyone has said their peace and can now be done with it. Did he come across agressive, sure, but I didn't get the impression that he was accusing you of anything and as an observer I didn't think your name was being attacked so I hope that's not what you're take away was.

I think it's a good time for us all to remember the issues that occur when you try to translate emotion into written words on forums in general and just let the issue drop. You guys both made the best call you could in the circumstances and if one player walks away deconstructing that then I'm sure we've all been there.

This back and forth isn't adding anything useful to peoples perceptions of Vassal and not productive to the ecology of our game so hopefully all parties can just take their opinions offline now that everyone has had a voice.

Hell we aren't even playing for a prize!

Can someone please think of the children!