IMO, talking to the players and getting their input is almost always a good choice for any GM who wants to collectively help build a universe where everyone gets to have fun.

For GMs that are “My way or the highway” sort, obviously they’re not going to do much of that.

IMO, talking to the players and getting their input is almost always a good choice for any GM who wants to collectively help build a universe where everyone gets to have fun.

For GMs that are “My way or the highway” sort, obviously they’re not going to do much of that.

Right. I shall discuss this with them when they obtain a ship.

Deciding on what is true and what isn't in a world full of Space Magic, cute robots and talking animals is Serious Business, evidently. And it saves him from working at McDonald's.

Judging by the posterior blunt trauma many people around here seem to feel around the issue, I guess so!

In retrospect, I'm pretty sure his 'talents' could be put to better use deciding if the 'Big Tasty' was canon this week, or relegated to the realm of 'Legends'...

What I'm trying to get at, unsuccessfully, is that there are canon examples of both, so a GM can use whichever they like.

A GM can do whatever they like, regardless of what the powers that be have decided is canon this week or not.

My main point is that canon used to be a meaningful, consistent, reference, and now, it contradicts itself in so many ways...that any notion of adhering to the present canon over anything else is simple subjective preference. Simply put, any setting bothering to have a "canon" implies that they're making an effort at consistency. Star Wars has taken steps in a bold new direction away from consistency, even within the very limited scope of the current canon, so why bother with it? Just say that everything we see is an account of events in the setting, from a storyteller within the setting, and as such, is prone to the pitfalls of an unreliable narrator, with inconsistencies, exaggeration, etc. It's already there anyway, so all they're doing by pretending they still have consistency is providing fuel for the pedantic side of nerd debates like this.

In terms of the knew cannon, all I know about is TFA and a comic that wookieepedia says explains how c3p0 got the red arm. Can someone explain to me/give examples of the non consistencies of the new cannon (something that can't be explained by 30 years of technology advances)

In terms of the knew cannon, all I know about is TFA and a comic that wookieepedia says explains how c3p0 got the red arm. Can someone explain to me/give examples of the non consistencies of the new cannon (something that can't be explained by 30 years of technology advances)

The issue with your disclaimer is that there's no accounting for what you might feel is within the realm of acceptable given 30 years of tech advancement.

It's also worth noting that 30 years of tech advancement is only relevant on Earth, since we've seen 30 years of tech advancement in Star Wars before (prequel-era to Rebellion era), and the tech advancement was effectively zero in terms of overall capabilities.

On earth, in recent history, the perception of tech advancement over time is out of pace with the SW universe, or even Earth itself at any other time. Heck, a given span of 30 years in the past 200 can take you from horses to hot rods, muzzleloaders to gatling guns, prop job airplanes to the space race, or 8-tracks to the iPod.

I think it's also interesting that we're seeing a clear need to qualify SW tech, especially in terms of computers and communication. What seemed incredibly advanced in 1977 is now clumsy and dated...but that doesn't change the setting. For my gaming, it's important to accept and embrace the different ways tech advances in the SW universe compared to our own. No, you can't just wirelessly hack into a military communications network from the safety of your ship in the next system over, while interstellar communication is a thing, it's not nearly so well developed as our internet, in terms of data connections. For that, you;ll need to physically connect your computer to whatever grid you wish to interact with. Then again, you can shoot lasers, travel faster than light, and move ships with your mind. Tradeoffs, not just gains, and the tech has now taken on a more nuanced tone (it's no longer just a facilitator...in-universe, sure, but in some ways it can be played as an impediment to accomplish something that may well be more easily accomplished using tech that is common on Earth)...and I think it's really cool that we're at a point where we have common tech in our world that not only rivals, but in many cases eclipses that of the Star Wars setting.

The inconsistency issue is actually interesting to me, in that is it an issue at all? Has anything since the legends change contradicted itself (e.g. Rebels shows a ship which decouples in hyperspace to revert to realspace while a different post-Legends source says a ship decoupling from another will stay in hyperspace)? (Hint: I honestly don't know, I haven't read all the novels/comics) It's fine if it contradicts legends stuff because they implied they'd do that. It's fine if the new model is different than before, but I too would like the new model to not contradict itself.

Sidenote: Personally, i haven't seen too much (Star Destroyers in atmo and mando history are two that do come to mind though) which directly contradicts legends stuff either. I admit I have forgotten quite a bit probably, so it'd be interesting tohave a list of these as well.

A GM can do whatever they like, regardless of what the powers that be have decided is canon this week or not.

But of course! I am a champion of this and what I've been saying this entire thread.

Deciding on what is true and what isn't in a world full of Space Magic, cute robots and talking animals is Serious Business, evidently. And it saves him from working at McDonald's.

Judging by the posterior blunt trauma many people around here seem to feel around the issue, I guess so!

In retrospect, I'm pretty sure his 'talents' could be put to better use deciding if the 'Big Tasty' was canon this week, or relegated to the realm of 'Legends'...

Sounds like someone has a case of the green-eyed gazongas!

WEG 1st edition. Didn`t they pretty much lay the groundwork?

Given that the galaxy is say a hundred thousand lightyears across and you can travel that distance in say 10 days, so 10 thousand light years a day, and assuming 1440 minutes in day, you're talking about 7 light years a minute, and assuming you need at least 2 seconds to adapt and avoid a collision, you have to be able to see the CURRENT STATE OF THE GALAXY out to a distance of roughly .2 lightyears in front you... I just don't believe star wars sensors are that good.

You don't need to detect the state of the galaxy. All that information is already inside your Navcomputer. As for reaction speed, it's all done by computer so your reaction time is in milliseconds.

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Deciding on what is true and what isn't in a world full of Space Magic, cute robots and talking animals is Serious Business, evidently. And it saves him from working at McDonald's.

Judging by the posterior blunt trauma many people around here seem to feel around the issue, I guess so!

In retrospect, I'm pretty sure his 'talents' could be put to better use deciding if the 'Big Tasty' was canon this week, or relegated to the realm of 'Legends'...

Sounds like someone has a case of the green-eyed gazongas!

Nah, always hated the 'canon police' and always will.

Thanks to Ed Greenwood for designing a decent campaign world. And then he can bugger off on the Mary-Sue God-Mode Asgardian-Superhero GMPCs he rode in on. Dribble and Munchminster mean nothing to me, because I'm going back to the original grey box set, and in any game I run they'll be eaten alive by baby harp seals when they are still 1st level.

Subsequent settings like Eberron, 13th Age and even Pathfinder's Golarion understood this, that the PCs were meant to be the heroes and GMs should run their game how they wanted.

I understand perfectly why Disney needs to cut back the EU - they don't want a deux-ex-machinae from their latest movie contradicted by some half-baked fanfiction book released in 1985.

But this is an RPG, and we're not beholden to use any of it, and FFG are smart enough to realise this.

'Metaplot' is the ruination of many games for many players and GMs. Forgotten Realms, like Star Wars, is just a series of reboots and retcons anyway, and any 'canon' will be airbrushed away when the next Time of Troubles or Spellplague or Sundering comes along. For me, it's more fun to play like it's 1984 and - like George Lucas - we have no idea what hyperspace is, or what a 'Clone Wars' or 'Dark Lord of the Sith' is. (I do know what a rodian or a twi'lek is though, thanks to WEG, so I'm one up on Lucas in that regard...)

'Star Wars' in particular always relished it's matinee, science-fantasy roots, and never really made a stab at anything like 'hard science' the way Star Trek did. There's a certain mystique to it that I enjoy, and that I try to preserve.

The writers of books and movies use 'hyperspace' to achieve whatever effect they are currently trying to achieve, so I think we should do the same.

Nah, always hated the 'canon police' and always will.

I er ah, I was meaning to convey how nice it must be to have THAT as one's job. No more, no less.

The writers of books and movies use 'hyperspace' to achieve whatever effect they are currently trying to achieve, so I think we should do the same.

The exception being that writers of books and movies don't have a pack of players trying to exploit any inconsistency and vaguely defined tech. RPGs need the setting's technological limitations to be clearly laid out and understood by all players before it becomes an issue.

• 1: Yes. Going from A to B often involves short stops to re-calculate the route. This is evident in the "in less than 12 parsecs" retcon where it's told that Han made the route in the shortest amount of jumps.

The writers of books and movies use 'hyperspace' to achieve whatever effect they are currently trying to achieve, so I think we should do the same.

The exception being that writers of books and movies don't have a pack of players trying to exploit any inconsistency and vaguely defined tech. RPGs need the setting's technological limitations to be clearly laid out and understood by all players before it becomes an issue.

Depends on what kind of game you are playing. In a narrative game where players are being granted narrative power and are used to it, Hyperspace can be a lot more than one narrowly defined thing.

It is mysterious, flexible and great.

Edit: as mentioned in WEG Star Wars 1st ed., not even the scientists fully understand Hyperspace and what it is.

This means that new ways of using hyperspace and taking advantage of it is plausible within the rules of the fictional universe already established.

Given that the galaxy is say a hundred thousand lightyears across and you can travel that distance in say 10 days, so 10 thousand light years a day, and assuming 1440 minutes in day, you're talking about 7 light years a minute, and assuming you need at least 2 seconds to adapt and avoid a collision, you have to be able to see the CURRENT STATE OF THE GALAXY out to a distance of roughly .2 lightyears in front you... I just don't believe star wars sensors are that good.

You don't need to detect the state of the galaxy. All that information is already inside your Navcomputer. As for reaction speed, it's all done by computer so your reaction time is in milliseconds.

Not to mention the predictive calculations of stellar movement that the navicomputer does constantly.

That's why the main dangers are roaming black holes and supernovas... things that arent' part of the larger model.

Given that the galaxy is say a hundred thousand lightyears across and you can travel that distance in say 10 days, so 10 thousand light years a day, and assuming 1440 minutes in day, you're talking about 7 light years a minute, and assuming you need at least 2 seconds to adapt and avoid a collision, you have to be able to see the CURRENT STATE OF THE GALAXY out to a distance of roughly .2 lightyears in front you... I just don't believe star wars sensors are that good.

You don't need to detect the state of the galaxy. All that information is already inside your Navcomputer. As for reaction speed, it's all done by computer so your reaction time is in milliseconds.

So you're sayin that every Navicomputer knows where every object the size of a grain of sand or bigger in the entire galaxy?

Beyond the obvious counter examples of there being "unknown regions" and Kamino not being in the jedi temples archives at the beginning of the attack of the clones (and yes the reason for that was that someone didn't want uninvited guest finding the planet, but do think that's the only thing in therror galaxy that someone didn't want anyone else to find), other ships, and debris from space combat...

Well even ignoring those glaring counter examples, if every navicomputer knows where every grain of sand in the galaxy is, why are hyperspace routes a "thing" if you can fly off in any direction without risking crashing into something?

Also if a computer's reaction time was 1 milisecond the computer would need to be able to see the current state of the galaxy out to about 1 light hour (which I find highly dubious), and out of all of that be able to identify the ship you told it to follow (again processing that much data that fast, is highly dubious).

I'm a bit confused on some hyperspace stuff in the game, based on the information in the EotE CRB. Page 247 has a table for hyperspace travel times based on a Class 1 hyperdrive. There is nowhere that I've found that clearly defines what Sectors and Regions are.

I've assumed that Sectors are each square on the grid map of the galaxy on pages 328-329 but I want to be certain.

If I'm traveling, say, from Nar Shaddaa to Kwenn Space Station, that's slightly over one square. Assuming a square is a Sector and this trip is slightly longer than one square, travel time should be 10-24 hours + additional time for the additional distance.

So something like 14-28 hours.

Is this correct?

What is a Sector? Is it one square on the grid?

What is a Region? Is it the area of space defined by the blue bold words, such as Bothan Space, Hutt Space, etc?

I'm a bit confused on some hyperspace stuff in the game, based on the information in the EotE CRB. Page 247 has a table for hyperspace travel times based on a Class 1 hyperdrive. There is nowhere that I've found that clearly defines what Sectors and Regions are.

Okay, so let’s take a look at a fairly standard map of the Star Wars Galaxy:

That central section of the map where it is mostly white? That’s the Deep Core Region, and is labeled “Deep Core”.

The layer outside of that is the “Core Region”. The same onion layer method applies to the other labels there, like “Colonies”, “Inner Rim”, “Expansion Region”, “Mid Rim”, “Outer Rim”, and “Unknown Regions”. Each of them has a line that demarcates where you cross over from one region to the next, and it goes all the way around the map — the dividing line for some regions is difficult to see in some areas of the map, but when you go to another map that is zoomed in on that region, you should be able to see it.

There are some other Regions also listed on this map. Like “Hutt Space” (at the top of the map), the “Gordian Reach” on the left side of the map. There are also some sectors listed on this map, like the Arkanis Sector on the top right (Grid coordinate R16), and the Corporate Sector (at the intersection of grid coordinates S3/4 and R3/4 on the top left).

I've assumed that Sectors are each square on the grid map of the galaxy on pages 328-329 but I want to be certain.

As you zoom in further on the map, there are many, many sectors listed, and almost all of them are very organic in shape. The grid you see here is never referenced anywhere in Canon that I know of, and I don’t recall FFG making reference to it, either. Usually, they make reference to a particular sector (which you have to find), or make reference to a well-known place, like a well-known planet or the Rishi Maze.

If I'm traveling, say, from Nar Shaddaa to Kwenn Space Station, that's slightly over one square. Assuming a square is a Sector and this trip is slightly longer than one square, travel time should be 10-24 hours + additional time for the additional distance.

I don’t know that anything official from FFG has ever made any statements regarding travel time relative to grid coordinates. They always talk about travel time along specified hyperlanes, or straight distances, etc….

Okay, thanks for the explanation on regions... I'm still not sure what's classified as a sector. If it isn't each individual square, what, exactly would be classified as a Sector? The book as absolutely no information on the distances used in hyperspace travel so I'm really confused on that one. Clearly it's smaller than a region because it takes less time to travel around but what are sectors represented by as shown on the map is kind of what I'm trying to understand.

Okay, thanks for the explanation on regions... I'm still not sure what's classified as a sector. If it isn't each individual square, what, exactly would be classified as a Sector? The book as absolutely no information on the distances used in hyperspace travel so I'm really confused on that one. Clearly it's smaller than a region because it takes less time to travel around but what are sectors represented by as shown on the map is kind of what I'm trying to understand.

For Sectors, let’s look at a different map:

This map highlights just the Expansion Region.

That odd patchwork you see inside of the Expansion Region? Each one of those “patches” is a Sector.

Each Sector has a name, and there is usually at least one or two moderately well-known systems.

There’s a book out there called the “Star Wars Atlas” that goes into way more detail than you ever thought possible, I highly recommend it.

Given that the galaxy is say a hundred thousand lightyears across and you can travel that distance in say 10 days, so 10 thousand light years a day, and assuming 1440 minutes in day, you're talking about 7 light years a minute, and assuming you need at least 2 seconds to adapt and avoid a collision, you have to be able to see the CURRENT STATE OF THE GALAXY out to a distance of roughly .2 lightyears in front you... I just don't believe star wars sensors are that good.

You don't need to detect the state of the galaxy. All that information is already inside your Navcomputer. As for reaction speed, it's all done by computer so your reaction time is in milliseconds.

So you're sayin that every Navicomputer knows where every object the size of a grain of sand or bigger in the entire galaxy?

Beyond the obvious counter examples of there being "unknown regions" and Kamino not being in the jedi temples archives at the beginning of the attack of the clones (and yes the reason for that was that someone didn't want uninvited guest finding the planet, but do think that's the only thing in therror galaxy that someone didn't want anyone else to find), other ships, and debris from space combat...

Well even ignoring those glaring counter examples, if every navicomputer knows where every grain of sand in the galaxy is, why are hyperspace routes a "thing" if you can fly off in any direction without risking crashing into something?

Also if a computer's reaction time was 1 milisecond the computer would need to be able to see the current state of the galaxy out to about 1 light hour (which I find highly dubious), and out of all of that be able to identify the ship you told it to follow (again processing that much data that fast, is highly dubious).

It doesn't "see", it calculates on the latest known information.

That's why it's somewhat safe to fly on well known hyperspace routes, but it's very dangrous to go exploring in the unknown regions.

A vast region of the galaxy is mapped. And those maps are not static, they are constantly updated inside the navicomputer based on predictive calculations that it makes about the movement of stars and objects inside the galaxy.

As for "every grain of sand", it doesn't need to. Those grains of sand don't actually exist inside hyperspace, only a "shadow" of them do.

A shadow based on their gravity, so a grain of sand wouldn't have much of an impact.

But an asteroid belt would.

Look, according to wookieepedia, you don't actually "hit" a planet or star or black hole in hyperspace. You can get sucked out into realspace too close to it and impact at the velocity you reach when moving in or out of hyperspace (which is substantial).

So no, the navicomputer doesn't "see" anything. It calculates using models of the known universe.

Which is why there's deadly hyperspace accidents every year in even the most well travelled hyperspace lanes.

Travel time based on sectors and distance are only there in this system for the convenience of the game. As I gave examples of, with my pictures earlier, the WEG star wars game from the 80's said real space distance is irrelevant when traveling in hyperspace, since you traveled faster than light in this dimension. Not distance, but how complicated the route was, with shadows from realspace or traffic in hyperspace.
Even the most specialized scientists don't really understand the mysterious diminsion that is Hyperspace fully. They understand some ways to use it.

It can be like this in this game too. If the characters have the right coordinates and codes or know the best hyper-routes.
The ffg CRBs also mention traffic, better routes, secret routes and the effects of trafficated routes and the fact that the same route might have different traveling time everytime, based on traffic and the changes in realspace and shadows in hyperspace.