The priority for targets with my current fleet is in order of easiest to kill, so Flotillas are much much higher than ISD's or MC80's.

Its all very dependant on the exact matchup.

I think the thing that will keep those things the safest is that they have a scatter and are 30 points. Everyone talks about flotillas in a bubble, like here's all my ways I will be able to kill them (myself included), but please do kill my 30 point troll ship instead of shooting my other ship that really wants to shoot the crap out of your ship. PLEASE throw your squadrons at it.

With an activation critical fleet, its extremely useful to have a fast way of one shotting flotillas as they are likely the reason why your opponent has similar activation numbers. Win that game fast, cause you know what I'm not wasting my squadrons on that pest.

All I mean is if I have an MC30/Gladiator/ISD/MC80/Anything Else in the same arc/range as a flotilla, I promise I won't be wasting that shot on a flotilla unless there are some gunnery teams on that ship.

well that's the idea, right?

I mean, I have been out of the loop for a long time so I have no idea with the whole Akbar gunline still exists

then again, it's not as bad as I initially thought

not a big math guy (as I may immediately show) but 62.5% of 5 reds is 3 - 1 for the evade, and we're at half health instead of popped. If the roll is lucky and has a natural accuracy for the evade as well, you're still not popped yet

So Bright Home actually has it very good, especially if obstructed. we're looking at an average 2.5 (so 2/3) hits, which could go down to 0 or 1 after the evade and Bright Hope

small wonder they come with Cracken, as he just makes the average damage absolutely pitiful

might give it a whirl now

So did the GR75 have a troll face on the side whilst it shut Indi down?

So did the GR75 have a troll face on the side whilst it shut Indi down?

You sir, have won the day! *golf clap*

Here we go:

It was just so obvious with me...

Especially since the bloody Independence was involved...

It was just so obvious with me...

Especially since the bloody Independence was involved...

"You're obsessed with the fat lady!"

In keeping with the 90's-movies-with-Jeff-Goldblum theme...

so hard to imagine what the state of the game will be like, but it would be hilarious to see this on the table

Cr-90a

*Cracken

[70]

4 Cr-90as w/TLRC (51 ea.)

[204 total]

Slicing Hope

[27]

still leaves so much room at 301 total and 6 ships farting out activation advantage

gut instinct is just to fill it out with YT-2400s. the GR-75 can command two squads no problems, but the CR-90s are probably busy farting around doing their own thing and if Hope's denying squadron command advantage then Rogue just becomes a tipping point (plus YT-2400s outfight Sprays no problem, at least they should)

even four YT-2400s only get you to 365, though

6 YT-2400s for 397?

Do we need more Slicer tools?

swap out a TLRC Cr-90 for Raymus Slaved Turret Salvation?

I was looking at doing a 3 flotilla, 3 CR90 full squadron Cracken fleet. I think he's going to be fun.

Yesterday I zoomed Bright Hope with Slicer Tools across the board and into Independence's rear arc, and just sat there the rest of the game feeding it engineering commands while I dismantled the rest of the fleet. Because the B-wings were dead in the water.

The danger of ST isn't in locking down carriers for the one critical turn when the squadrons clash; it's that it can completely suppress the carrier for the entire game if you can't deal with it.

Awesome.

Honestly, I expect to see some people even put a Slicer tool ship in Hyperspace Assault so that they can lock people down.

Yesterday I zoomed Bright Hope with Slicer Tools across the board and into Independence's rear arc, and just sat there the rest of the game feeding it engineering commands while I dismantled the rest of the fleet. Because the B-wings were dead in the water.

The danger of ST isn't in locking down carriers for the one critical turn when the squadrons clash; it's that it can completely suppress the carrier for the entire game if you can't deal with it.

Awesome.

Same with Demolisher. You can just keep feeding it Engineering commands or even concentrate fire while it will never get to Engine Techs again. Make sure to have tractor beams and it is a 33 point ships of major annoyance.

Honestly, I expect to see some people even put a Slicer tool ship in Hyperspace Assault so that they can lock people down.

Excellent idea for Hyperspace assault

Yesterday I zoomed Bright Hope with Slicer Tools across the board and into Independence's rear arc, and just sat there the rest of the game feeding it engineering commands while I dismantled the rest of the fleet. Because the B-wings were dead in the water.

The danger of ST isn't in locking down carriers for the one critical turn when the squadrons clash; it's that it can completely suppress the carrier for the entire game if you can't deal with it.

Awesome.

Same with Demolisher. You can just keep feeding it Engineering commands or even concentrate fire while it will never get to Engine Techs again. Make sure to have tractor beams and it is a 33 point ships of major annoyance.

Honestly, I expect to see some people even put a Slicer tool ship in Hyperspace Assault so that they can lock people down.

Excellent idea for Hyperspace assault

The threat of slicer tools makes Wing Commander mandatory on carriers imho

The thing is, they're a very specialized tool. They'll still be disruptive against non-squadron based fleets, but not nearly as potent. There's also the risk of someone using lots of flotillas to provide lots of redudant squadron commands, which mitigates the damage slicer tools can do. Independence, Yavaris, and a dedicated carrier with flight controllers are ships that are massively vulnerable to slicer tools because they have to use the command. Everything else, not so much. This leads me to think slicer tools might not be as command as I originally thought. This also leads me to think that I might be able to get away with just Leia in my squadron-centric rebel fleets. 3 points looks a lot better than 12 (one wing commander for each major carrier), even if that means incurring some risk.

The threat of slicer tools makes Wing Commander mandatory on carriers imho

The thing is, they're a very specialized tool. They'll still be disruptive against non-squadron based fleets, but not nearly as potent. There's also the risk of someone using lots of flotillas to provide lots of redudant squadron commands, which mitigates the damage slicer tools can do. Independence, Yavaris, and a dedicated carrier with flight controllers are ships that are massively vulnerable to slicer tools because they have to use the command. Everything else, not so much. This leads me to think slicer tools might not be as command as I originally thought. This also leads me to think that I might be able to get away with just Leia in my squadron-centric rebel fleets. 3 points looks a lot better than 12 (one wing commander for each major carrier), even if that means incurring some risk.

Well, care to take bets on how many ships will be flown off the board because that Navigate command disappeared? Or ships get destroyed because that engineering command got lost in the system? What about Demolisher never going faster than speed 1 ever again?

On a side note, now Tractor Beams are amazing G on all ships because you can have the clicker tool ship make sure they can't speed up again!

The threat of slicer tools makes Wing Commander mandatory on carriers imho

The thing is, they're a very specialized tool. They'll still be disruptive against non-squadron based fleets, but not nearly as potent. There's also the risk of someone using lots of flotillas to provide lots of redudant squadron commands, which mitigates the damage slicer tools can do. Independence, Yavaris, and a dedicated carrier with flight controllers are ships that are massively vulnerable to slicer tools because they have to use the command. Everything else, not so much. This leads me to think slicer tools might not be as command as I originally thought. This also leads me to think that I might be able to get away with just Leia in my squadron-centric rebel fleets. 3 points looks a lot better than 12 (one wing commander for each major carrier), even if that means incurring some risk.

I hear you. That said, there are commands other ships really need. MC30s live and die by navigate commands. CR90s with TRCs really want those Concentrate Fires. Engine teched Glads really like Navigates, as do Victories. Raiders, ISDs, AF MkIIs, and MC80s don't care so much I suppose. We are all theory crafting here, but I think Leia can be mitigated with activation planning, is my only issue with her, though I believe she is going to be very helpful, for sure. Now that I think about it, you would probably only need one Wing Commander, on your carrier with the most activations. I do think having one slicer tool in my fleet might be awesome. I originally thought slicer+tractor, but that's really only awesome against Gladiators and Cracken, so might be too specific to build for.

The threat of slicer tools makes Wing Commander mandatory on carriers imho

The thing is, they're a very specialized tool. They'll still be disruptive against non-squadron based fleets, but not nearly as potent. There's also the risk of someone using lots of flotillas to provide lots of redudant squadron commands, which mitigates the damage slicer tools can do. Independence, Yavaris, and a dedicated carrier with flight controllers are ships that are massively vulnerable to slicer tools because they have to use the command. Everything else, not so much. This leads me to think slicer tools might not be as command as I originally thought. This also leads me to think that I might be able to get away with just Leia in my squadron-centric rebel fleets. 3 points looks a lot better than 12 (one wing commander for each major carrier), even if that means incurring some risk.

Well, care to take bets on how many ships will be flown off the board because that Navigate command disappeared? Or ships get destroyed because that engineering command got lost in the system? What about Demolisher never going faster than speed 1 ever again?

On a side note, now Tractor Beams are amazing G on all ships because you can have the clicker tool ship make sure they can't speed up again!

I can attest to the first point. My last regional tournament saw me lose my navigate to com noise, and a virtually untouched Admonition under Mon Mothma flew right off the board. 86 points.

How dirty are we talking here... like oil change then straight into bed dirty? Or Christina Aguilera dirty??

How dirty are we talking here... like oil change then straight into bed dirty? Or Christina Aguilera dirty??

Just oil change dirty. I'd quit the game if it were Aguilera dirty.

I think Demo is hugely susceptible to this. Fly a flotilla straight at it, take away its Nav command, and laugh as Demo flops forward and unloads into said flotilla, only to Scatter the attack. If you can get a Tractor Beam or Interdictor its speed down, it's going to be very, very vulnerable.

It's not gonna be as reliably good at defeating Demo as all that. First, the Demo can pack away a Nav token early in the game to prepare for the inevitable Slicer tool. Adding a tractor beam to that mix will definitely help, but tractors are a little harder to bring to bear before the Demo's first jump since they work before . A well flown Demo tends to not be in tractor range before it needs that speed 3+ET move. I'm not trying to poo-poo on everyone's parade, but I'm starting to see the flaws of the Slicer tool+tractor combo to try to counter Demo. It's not quite the 'screw you Demo' tool I originally foresaw.

It's not gonna be as reliably good at defeating Demo as all that. First, the Demo can pack away a Nav token early in the game to prepare for the inevitable Slicer tool. Adding a tractor beam to that mix will definitely help, but tractors are a little harder to bring to bear before the Demo's first jump since they work before . A well flown Demo tends to not be in tractor range before it needs that speed 3+ET move. I'm not trying to poo-poo on everyone's parade, but I'm starting to see the flaws of the Slicer tool+tractor combo to try to counter Demo. It's not quite the 'screw you Demo' tool I originally foresaw.

Agree.

Certainly, it will make Demo's job harder. I often see Demo players navigating on turn 1 to make sure they're positioned right for turn 2... Slicer Tools takes that away. That's pretty much it, though: you just have to make sure you're positioned well off the bat, which isn't terribly difficult to do.

One possibility, though, is to fling Quantum Storm with tractors out at full speed right off the bat to stiffarm the Demo charge. Demo either doesn't close with QS immediately, buying the rest of the fleet time to deal with it, or it does, and QS gets the tractor + ST off. What the flotilla brings to the table in this case is that normally, if you do this with a CR90, it'll get popped right off the bat and you lose the activation. QS's scatter means it can (probably) weather the alpha strike from Demo.

It's not gonna be as reliably good at defeating Demo as all that. First, the Demo can pack away a Nav token early in the game to prepare for the inevitable Slicer tool. Adding a tractor beam to that mix will definitely help, but tractors are a little harder to bring to bear before the Demo's first jump since they work before . A well flown Demo tends to not be in tractor range before it needs that speed 3+ET move. I'm not trying to poo-poo on everyone's parade, but I'm starting to see the flaws of the Slicer tool+tractor combo to try to counter Demo. It's not quite the 'screw you Demo' tool I originally foresaw.

No it is not but this is why I run 2 of them. I fully expect Demo to get in one attack and then possibly flee but at the same time I think that having 2 will significantly hinder not only Demo but all other small ships.

What's that? You have a flotilla over there with BCC's, well, let's just slow you right down and make you play catch up.

What? That CR90 is now going speed 1, well now it can't escape!

It is a very versatile set of tools that can function even when there are no small ships around.

It's not gonna be as reliably good at defeating Demo as all that. First, the Demo can pack away a Nav token early in the game to prepare for the inevitable Slicer tool. Adding a tractor beam to that mix will definitely help, but tractors are a little harder to bring to bear before the Demo's first jump since they work before . A well flown Demo tends to not be in tractor range before it needs that speed 3+ET move. I'm not trying to poo-poo on everyone's parade, but I'm starting to see the flaws of the Slicer tool+tractor combo to try to counter Demo. It's not quite the 'screw you Demo' tool I originally foresaw.

Agree.

Certainly, it will make Demo's job harder. I often see Demo players navigating on turn 1 to make sure they're positioned right for turn 2... Slicer Tools takes that away. That's pretty much it, though: you just have to make sure you're positioned well off the bat, which isn't terribly difficult to do.

One possibility, though, is to fling Quantum Storm with tractors out at full speed right off the bat to stiffarm the Demo charge. Demo either doesn't close with QS immediately, buying the rest of the fleet time to deal with it, or it does, and QS gets the tractor + ST off. What the flotilla brings to the table in this case is that normally, if you do this with a CR90, it'll get popped right off the bat and you lose the activation. QS's scatter means it can (probably) weather the alpha strike from Demo.

I am seeing people put Sensor team on Demo now.....It makes it a very good Flotilla killer if you have APT's. Issue a concentrate fire order after your initial navigate token banked from round 1. Cancel a blank die from your front arc to get your accuracy and you just need to roll 1 other damage and a hit/crit black to kill the Flotilla. That being said its not a very cost effective use of your Demo and you lose ordinance experts re-rolls but you could get in behind the lines and wreck some flotillas.

I have always liked Wulff on Demolisher to keep the nav command returning each use. Slicer tools & tractors may make it even more needed.

Veteran captain is a cheaper alternative. Bank a Nav token turn one and you have another if you really need it to activate engine techs for 2 turns in a row even if Slicer tools change your command dial to squadron.