Love epic but still trying to find a decent cheap build for the CR90. I do have a theory I want to test but it's rather radical so not exactly confident about it. Hoping to test it before Gencon epic...

Curious question though. Conner nets. Obviously the ion is bad for an epic ship as it kills energy generation. The one damage is never terrible. But can it deny the actions?

To answer the OP, after 100+ posts in 24 hours, The Future of the Epic Format is so bright that I have to wear polarized flight goggles

I love epic but have always gotten the feeling that FFG does not care about it other than as a means to make players buy up grade cards that they want to use in 100 pt games

Well, now that FFG is hosting tournaments for epic maybe some of that feeling will relax a bit. Not all, mind you. The main focus is on the smaller, more easily accessible games.

Indeed. We've run a few epic game night kits, and they've been great fun. The 'feel' is very, very different, and the upgrades and refits in the gozanti box (looking at you, ordnance tubes and optimized generators) do a lot to make the corvettes much more effective.

An optimized generator equipped CR-90 can actually maintain a decent rate of turbolaser fire, for example, which makes it very, very scary for larger ships.

My LGS typically does 400 point, 2-player team epic tournaments. I'm a huge fan of the GR-75 in epic play. Either our opponents are forced to focus on it or they don't get many tokens thanks to Toryn Farr being on-board.

Player 1

GR-75: Auto Protocols, Toryn Farr, Carlist Rieekan, Bright Hope, Slicer Tools, Tibanna Gas [Can Toryn Farr tokens and still reinforce. Hard to take down the from the front and a total annoyance.]

3 Gold Squad Y's with Title and TLT

2 Rookie X's

Roark with TLT (To help deal with aces... because... you'll see.)

Player 2

8 Blue Squadron B's

1 Gold Squad Y with Title and TLT

It's 399 total. Silly amounts of fun to field so many B wings.

Love epic but still trying to find a decent cheap build for the CR90. I do have a theory I want to test but it's rather radical so not exactly confident about it. Hoping to test it before Gencon epic...

Curious question though. Conner nets. Obviously the ion is bad for an epic ship as it kills energy generation. The one damage is never terrible. But can it deny the actions?

Huge ships have a Perform Action step just like any other ship, and conner nets instruct you to skip your perform action step (subject to timing) - there's no huge ship related FAQ that says otherwise - so yeah - they work.

Seems a little OP for a 4 point upgrade that's pretty easy to drop on a big slow moving ship to neutralise it so effectively - so I wouldn't be surprised if it was FAQ-ed to say it only affects the section it hits - but as things stand that's not the case

Love epic but still trying to find a decent cheap build for the CR90. I do have a theory I want to test but it's rather radical so not exactly confident about it. Hoping to test it before Gencon epic...

Curious question though. Conner nets. Obviously the ion is bad for an epic ship as it kills energy generation. The one damage is never terrible. But can it deny the actions?

Huge ships have a Perform Action step just like any other ship, and conner nets instruct you to skip your perform action step (subject to timing) - there's no huge ship related FAQ that says otherwise - so yeah - they work.

Seems a little OP for a 4 point upgrade that's pretty easy to drop on a big slow moving ship to neutralise it so effectively - so I wouldn't be surprised if it was FAQ-ed to say it only affects the section it hits - but as things stand that's not the case

It is actually somewhat difficult to drop and not get run over in the process though. So I think it works out ok. Even with Advanced Slam it is not easy. Deathrain has an ok time, but has to be careful trying to get in close with escorts trying to murder him. Emon is expensive enough that it doesn't really matter.

But yes you are correct CN does work on Epic ships. -2 energy generation and skip actions is pretty powerful, but not easy or quick to set up. Very careful planning is needed of sure.

Love epic but still trying to find a decent cheap build for the CR90. I do have a theory I want to test but it's rather radical so not exactly confident about it. Hoping to test it before Gencon epic...

Curious question though. Conner nets. Obviously the ion is bad for an epic ship as it kills energy generation. The one damage is never terrible. But can it deny the actions?

Huge ships have a Perform Action step just like any other ship, and conner nets instruct you to skip your perform action step (subject to timing) - there's no huge ship related FAQ that says otherwise - so yeah - they work.

Seems a little OP for a 4 point upgrade that's pretty easy to drop on a big slow moving ship to neutralise it so effectively - so I wouldn't be surprised if it was FAQ-ed to say it only affects the section it hits - but as things stand that's not the case

It is actually somewhat difficult to drop and not get run over in the process though. So I think it works out ok. Even with Advanced Slam it is not easy. Deathrain has an ok time, but has to be careful trying to get in close with escorts trying to murder him. Emon is expensive enough that it doesn't really matter.

But yes you are correct CN does work on Epic ships. -2 energy generation and skip actions is pretty powerful, but not easy or quick to set up. Very careful planning is needed of sure.

If you're not making suicidal bombing runs you're not doing it right

@ Gilarius: Man....I went back to read what the last thing I typed in this thread was....and realized I didn't type that! Then, I noticed it was you. I need to get used to someone else with the same avatar.

Is it weird that I thought he was you as well? Lol!

Since heychadwick was here long before I joined, I've changed my avatar. Albeit only slightly.

@ Gilarius: Man....I went back to read what the last thing I typed in this thread was....and realized I didn't type that! Then, I noticed it was you. I need to get used to someone else with the same avatar.

Is it weird that I thought he was you as well? Lol!

Since heychadwick was here long before I joined, I've changed my avatar. Albeit only slightly.

I wouldn't worry about it. There are 5 or so Gand like me posting here and a few top posters hqve the same TIE Advanced icon. You just get used to it after a while. Like others have said, it just means you've gotta check the name instead of relying on the picture.

@ Gilarius: Man....I went back to read what the last thing I typed in this thread was....and realized I didn't type that! Then, I noticed it was you. I need to get used to someone else with the same avatar.

Is it weird that I thought he was you as well? Lol!

Since heychadwick was here long before I joined, I've changed my avatar. Albeit only slightly.

You can use the same one if you want. I'll just have to get used to it. There are a lot of cool ones in that section, though.

Problem with getting a huge ship with a mine is the movement template doesnt trigger anything, so only the ship's final placement will matter. Unless you're deathrain dumping it out the front it'd be pretty hard to get him to land on it, since if he turned he can easily dodge it. They turn sharper than you might think.

CN wouldnt skip the energy step though, so they can still do "actions" where its energy not an action. Albeit with less energy lol. Though i can only think of a couple that arent an action that also takes an energy...one being Comms Booster other being Engines Booster...which who the hell would take that 2nd one lol. Huge ships dont have enough slots to justify such a minor and highly situational upgrade vs one you could easily use every round like the Comms Booster.

Two ways to handle it:

Fighters may not attack huge ships if there are enemy fighters within range 1.

OR

Attacking huge ships is a phase of it's own, after all the fighters did their thing against each other. Now the escort can gun the attackers down that simply ignore them!

(actually all huge ship combat should get an additional phase, not worked out with the rest, just like moving. Attacks from and against huge ships. Each ship may participate only in one attack, fighter phase or huge phase).

[edit: I still recommend to change the way damage is done to huge ships; make primary weapon attacks from non-huge weaker by discarding all normal hits and downgrade crits to normal hits; that way primary weapons cannot seriously damage huge ships, you will need torpedoes or missiles or cannons for that]

I love these ideas. In the movies the fighters have to deal with the other fighters before engaging the capitol ships and the big ships have incredible shielding that the regular ship weapons would barely scratch.

i think the second one is a little much. Maybe make 2hits only deal 1 damage and a crit is a hit on its own.

Otherwise nonhuge would almost never hurt them. Personally its quite rare i see more than 1 crit per ship attacking w/o mods, and if hes not doing any faceup damage to me i can repair alllll day long. Especially considering he's going to take a LOT longer to eat through my shields.

I think the shields are the key here though. Why are the shields on a massive ship the same durability as a lowly Awing? My shields should protect me from most attacks, but if you get through it im in a world of hurt. But i basically get my shields back each round depending on energy usage.

the issue with demanding you bring an epic ship is

1) not everyone can afford that much at once. Even the ~70USD ones are a price dump and pretty hefty for some people. The main reason theres so many in this game in my area is everyone can pay ~20 a month for a kit or splurge a little more for 2 kits so they can still play. Im one of the few that doesnt have that issue so even though ive been playing for 4 months i already own all the imperial stuff and all the rebel stuff except the rebel huge ships and Dash lol. (most of the "skill" i claim to have comes from previous games applied to this one)

2) Scum have no epic ship yet. And yes scum do play epic lol.

i still think the best way to deal with the epic ships' durability is an escort rule. Would be really easy to add and it would prevent alphastriking a huge down...atleast as easily.

Reinforce helps but its not that amazing. Usually you can still target the other section that isnt reinforced: thats how my friend was able to vaporize my raider in a single round (1 section i mean). I reinforced the one he was near, and only 1 ship was required to hit the fore section so he hit the aft with everything, even the ones that were losing range1 or losing torpedo range.

Unless i misread the rules about that blue line and it technically extends beyond the base, making it impossible to hit the aft if youre in the fore area regardless of the angle. I got the impression if it passed the actual printed line you had to hit the other section.

Quite frankly i dont get why it doesnt. You cant recover and reinforce, since the mod card says "or" in the restriction that implies you cant do either of them to get the free action. Reinforce is easily dodged, but without it you take soooooooooooooo bloody much damage...

I am also hoping that they make the ships changeable between the factions

I would love it if S&V could side with either the Rebellion or Empire. Of course any abilities they have that affect 'friendly' ships are still limited to S&V. Also you shouldn't be allowed to win with only S&V ships remaining. But!!!

If either side could field, up to a certain percentage, of their squad points as S&V that would stir the pot and lists a lot.

I don't see any problems with that, however, I would allow the huge ship upgrades to interact with S&V. The transport in particular is a mobile buff bot. No real reason to not let it impact Scum.

So I'd just make it so all small and large ships must be from S&V. Heck, if Palp wants to hire Boba and the 'Bots to go Tantive hunting for a weekend, have at it, I say.

One of the reasons for not allowing cross faction abilities is we don't know all of the interactions. Some may show up unexpectedly over powered. FFG never intended for S&V abilities to buff Imperial ships and vise versa. LImiting it to Huge ships brings it down a bit but there is still the future unknowns.

I am also hoping that they make the ships changeable between the factions

I would love it if S&V could side with either the Rebellion or Empire. Of course any abilities they have that affect 'friendly' ships are still limited to S&V. Also you shouldn't be allowed to win with only S&V ships remaining. But!!!

If either side could field, up to a certain percentage, of their squad points as S&V that would stir the pot and lists a lot.

I don't see any problems with that, however, I would allow the huge ship upgrades to interact with S&V. The transport in particular is a mobile buff bot. No real reason to not let it impact Scum.

So I'd just make it so all small and large ships must be from S&V. Heck, if Palp wants to hire Boba and the 'Bots to go Tantive hunting for a weekend, have at it, I say.

One of the reasons for not allowing cross faction abilities is we don't know all of the interactions. Some may show up unexpectedly over powered. FFG never intended for S&V abilities to buff Imperial ships and vise versa. LImiting it to Huge ships brings it down a bit but there is still the future unknowns.

Just imagine a TIE Swarm of Howlrunner + Serissu. That's a lot of dice being rerolled. And do you target Holwrunner first, hoping to get rid of the offensive buff, or do you need to go after Serissu first to remove the defense buff before moving on to Howlrunner?

@ Gilarius: Man....I went back to read what the last thing I typed in this thread was....and realized I didn't type that! Then, I noticed it was you. I need to get used to someone else with the same avatar.

Is it weird that I thought he was you as well? Lol!

Since heychadwick was here long before I joined, I've changed my avatar. Albeit only slightly.

You can use the same one if you want. I'll just have to get used to it. There are a lot of cool ones in that section, though.

There are; I nearly picked this one in place of the other from the beginning anyway, so I might as well reduce the confusion slightly and use it. For a while, anyway - I'm likely to change it if I spot another that I like.

One thing that might kindle a little more interest in Epic would be if FFG released some Official-Unofficial pilots and upgrades specifically for the Epic format.

By that I mean pilot and upgrade cards that are available as free downloads and only legal in Epic format games.

FFG could retire existing ones and introduce new ones every couple of months - possibly even hint as some of them making their way to the standard format.

With a steady trickle of new content, that's free to the players - and inexpensive to FFG - it might be enough to keep the Epic pot bubbling.

One thing that might kindle a little more interest in Epic would be if FFG released some Official-Unofficial pilots and upgrades specifically for the Epic format.

By that I mean pilot and upgrade cards that are available as free downloads and only legal in Epic format games.

FFG could retire existing ones and introduce new ones every couple of months - possibly even hint as some of them making their way to the standard format.

With a steady trickle of new content, that's free to the players - and inexpensive to FFG - it might be enough to keep the Epic pot bubbling.

What will help Epic is just more tournament style formats and prize support. They started this last year at Worlds, and expanded it more at Nationals and the upcoming North American Championship. People like rare hard to find things. Epic itself also takes a particular mind set. It isn't for everybody. Personally I like Epic over the standard tournament format, because I like putting a ton of models on the board and controlling an entire attack squadron with multiple attack wings in it.

I'd love to see them adopt some sort of objective based goal for Epic so that it wasn't just destroying every ship on the board, but it is what it is right now. I'm happy to own one of the few official FFG double sided maneuver templates for epic ships that I won at Nationals.

I don't know if I'd say it's tournaments specifically that will make Epic play take off. I think it's just getting more people to try it and realize, "Hey, this is fun!" I agree with many that team epic is among the most fun I've ever had playing X-wing, and I'm sad I won't be able to attend that event at GenCon this year.

EDIT: And it appears that more and more are being vocal about how fun epic is here on the forums, which is definitely a step in the right direction.

Part of the drawback (if that's the right word) to Epic is that the size of the ships makes it kind of prohibitive to bring them along every single time we play. I'm already lugging two full Plano tackle boxes full of regular ships; throwing two or three Epic ships in there gets to be a little unwieldy. So any kind of Epic game usually has to be planned ahead of time rather than being something where people show up and decide to play it. Sure, you can always just put together 300 points of non-Epic ships (and I really dig my 4x IG-88/2x YV-666 build), but then it just feels like a bigger Standard game.

I am also hoping that they make the ships changeable between the factions

I would love it if S&V could side with either the Rebellion or Empire. Of course any abilities they have that affect 'friendly' ships are still limited to S&V. Also you shouldn't be allowed to win with only S&V ships remaining. But!!!

If either side could field, up to a certain percentage, of their squad points as S&V that would stir the pot and lists a lot.

I don't see any problems with that, however, I would allow the huge ship upgrades to interact with S&V. The transport in particular is a mobile buff bot. No real reason to not let it impact Scum.

So I'd just make it so all small and large ships must be from S&V. Heck, if Palp wants to hire Boba and the 'Bots to go Tantive hunting for a weekend, have at it, I say.

One of the reasons for not allowing cross faction abilities is we don't know all of the interactions. Some may show up unexpectedly over powered. FFG never intended for S&V abilities to buff Imperial ships and vise versa. LImiting it to Huge ships brings it down a bit but there is still the future unknowns.

Just imagine a TIE Swarm of Howlrunner + Serissu. That's a lot of dice being rerolled. And do you target Holwrunner first, hoping to get rid of the offensive buff, or do you need to go after Serissu first to remove the defense buff before moving on to Howlrunner?

Yeah, that's why I'd only allow the same faction for Large and Small ships. I'd only allow the crew and abilities of the huge ship to cross factions. I mean, Palpatine on the Raider and Xizor in a Starviper is actually somewhat thematic.

I don't think there's any current combos that would be broken, obviously Scum crew can't hitch a ride on the raider or Gozanti.