One idea: make Reinforce cover all sections with more than 1 shield token. This would make the Bright Hope basically immune any 2 attack ships, but eh. I'm ok with a mechanic that causes people to bring TIE Bombers along.

Also. An errata to remove the first 3 words from Gunnery Team. Or even a rule update to let Huge ships spend energy exactly like focus tokens. Part of Huge ships' problem is that they don't defend themselves well. The other part is that their attacks are not at all easy to make accurate.

Yeah i noticed that. Theyre almost strictly raw dice since they cant freely targetlock either, and even then a reroll isnt that huge. Focus usually does more for me than targetlocks.

I had multiple times with the main gun on my raider where all 3 (yes, 3, for those wondering how rules do not factor in pilot abilities and rules say i attack twice, pilot says i spend 1 energy to attack again) would be 1 hit and rest focus..maybe 1 blank. Literally no **** way to get it to change those to hits without bringing very dumb crew that would hamper the ship more than help lol.

A 4 die attack on its own should be feared, let alone one that attacks twice if not 3 times. Against a 2agi ship at range2 so no range bonus, i did 2 damage in one round...wat lol

Agent Kallus would let me change 1 focus to a hit or evade against a SINGULAR ship i declare at the start of the game. Even if this idiot was 0pts i wouldnt take him because its a crew slot wasted on this shmuck. And he is the ONLY crew that affects focus results for imperials, iirc the only rebel one requires you to be stressed so thats out too.

The rebels have Han Solo crew, which is usually an auto-include on my CR-90 builds.

Imperials need a way for their Raider and Gozanti to change focus into hits.

I'm generally okay with the huge ships not having super accurate attacks. In the lore fighters had a place on the battlefield because they were nimble enough to avoid the large turbolasers used by capital ships. Armada represents this well by having less effective separate attack dice ratings for anti-squadron attacks.

Love epic but still trying to find a decent cheap build for the CR90. I do have a theory I want to test but it's rather radical so not exactly confident about it. Hoping to test it before Gencon epic...

Curious question though. Conner nets. Obviously the ion is bad for an epic ship as it kills energy generation. The one damage is never terrible. But can it deny the actions?

As I said before Huge ships are cheaper than buying smaller ships. Unless you already have a collection of 300 points of ships getting a huge ship will be enough to fill out your list. 1 CR-90 can easily take up 150 points for ~$90 while 7 X-wings will cost >$100.

Really I don't get while people claim Epic to be so expensive is it because they see that $100 Raider box and say woah too much? Of course Epic will be more expensive to get in because it is 3 times as many points which means 3 times as many ships. Now take a look at standard competitive format and you see players buying huge ships anyways because of certain upgrades. Or buying 3 of the large $30 packages to get U-boats, which cost just as much as getting a CR-90.

Epic is no more expensive than competitive play.

Technically that is in xwing: the heavy hitting long range Single Lasers are outright terrible against anything 2+ agi, which is a lot of ships. Bwings, good chunk of large ships, upcoming ARC, Punishers, and Kwings are all that comes to mind with 1 or less agi. That actually get used anyway lol

Still, the point of the Raider was to support the fighters in ways the star destroyers couldnt because of their sluggish speed. It makes total sense that it is armed to the teeth with twin lasers that fire rapidly, thus harder to dodge but do less damage as a result. Not all of its attacks should be concrete accurate but atleast ONE of them should be (han would be able to make the cr90 have one pretty solid attack). Also nevermind the fact that outside Xwing, if a fighter DID get hit by a single laser cannon he's freakin' toast. No shields no armor nothing just BOOM. Large ships might survive but they'd be in a world of hurt. That hardpoint should be multiplying any damage that goes through unevaded to show this. (4 die attack like it is, double agi. Any uncanceled hits and crits are doubled in the Compare Results stage. That way it isnt just a fistful of dice and is easily evaded with higher agility, but it actually WRECKS those that fail to dodge. Small/large ship only)

And people claim Epic is expensive because of the price difference. Originally i played 40k, so i was used to paying insane ~85USD for a SINGLE **** model...of which i have 3 of in a normal list (ghostkeels, riptides, broadsides, hammerheads, blah blah blah) and that isnt even half the list either so .. yeah it gets bad lol. I played Armada before Xwing and i thought it was dirt **** cheap, with the ISD being the only actual pricy ship at $50. Nobody plays it though, so i got into xwing. I really want to get back into Armada, but i dont have the ISD or Home One so i looked up what i'd be spending to get the kits i dont have (also dont have the stand-alone VSD/Nebulon/CR90) and it was ~160USD lol. After buying so much xwing stuff for 15-30USD each kit every other week, that feels like a LOT of money even though i know its not.

I felt the same way when i bought my huge ships, since i bought them at once to utilize a 10% discount card.

At face value only, Xwing even in Epic format is dirty, dirt dirt cheap. Look at an Xwing kit vs the CR90 though...its hard to not go "WOW THAT IS EXPENSIVE!!!" even though it isnt lol

Love epic but still trying to find a decent cheap build for the CR90. I do have a theory I want to test but it's rather radical so not exactly confident about it. Hoping to test it before Gencon epic...

Curious question though. Conner nets. Obviously the ion is bad for an epic ship as it kills energy generation. The one damage is never terrible. But can it deny the actions?

As I said before Huge ships are cheaper than buying smaller ships. Unless you already have a collection of 300 points of ships getting a huge ship will be enough to fill out your list. 1 CR-90 can easily take up 150 points for ~$90 while 7 X-wings will cost >$100.

Really I don't get while people claim Epic to be so expensive is it because they see that $100 Raider box and say woah too much? Of course Epic will be more expensive to get in because it is 3 times as many points which means 3 times as many ships. Now take a look at standard competitive format and you see players buying huge ships anyways because of certain upgrades. Or buying 3 of the large $30 packages to get U-boats, which cost just as much as getting a CR-90.

Epic is no more expensive than competitive play.

I thought that LagJanson was referring to the build point cost, not the money cost?

And I'd like to see the actual build - not just a teaser post!

The rebels have Han Solo crew, which is usually an auto-include on my CR-90 builds.

Imperials need a way for their Raider and Gozanti to change focus into hits.

I'm generally okay with the huge ships not having super accurate attacks. In the lore fighters had a place on the battlefield because they were nimble enough to avoid the large turbolasers used by capital ships. Armada represents this well by having less effective separate attack dice ratings for anti-squadron attacks.

It seems like it wouldn't be broken to just allow huge ships Han's ability or have hits on small and large ships worth 2 damage to reflect huge ships being less accurate, but doing more damage when they do hit?

I don't know if I'd say it's tournaments specifically that will make Epic play take off. I think it's just getting more people to try it and realize, "Hey, this is fun!" I agree with many that team epic is among the most fun I've ever had playing X-wing, and I'm sad I won't be able to attend that event at GenCon this year.

EDIT: And it appears that more and more are being vocal about how fun epic is here on the forums, which is definitely a step in the right direction.

Nailed it!

Love epic but still trying to find a decent cheap build for the CR90. I do have a theory I want to test but it's rather radical so not exactly confident about it. Hoping to test it before Gencon epic...

Curious question though. Conner nets. Obviously the ion is bad for an epic ship as it kills energy generation. The one damage is never terrible. But can it deny the actions?

As I said before Huge ships are cheaper than buying smaller ships. Unless you already have a collection of 300 points of ships getting a huge ship will be enough to fill out your list. 1 CR-90 can easily take up 150 points for ~$90 while 7 X-wings will cost >$100.

Really I don't get while people claim Epic to be so expensive is it because they see that $100 Raider box and say woah too much? Of course Epic will be more expensive to get in because it is 3 times as many points which means 3 times as many ships. Now take a look at standard competitive format and you see players buying huge ships anyways because of certain upgrades. Or buying 3 of the large $30 packages to get U-boats, which cost just as much as getting a CR-90.

Epic is no more expensive than competitive play.

Er... Cheap as in points. Not dollars. For the past year this has been my only expensive vice so I've thrown way more $$$ into this game than I should have. I'm ready for the 800 point weekend game with my Rebel fleet.

I thought that LagJanson was referring to the build point cost, not the money cost?

And I'd like to see the actual build - not just a teaser post!

I think I posted it in your CR90 build thread. Simply put just Solo crew and Sensor Team and maybe one more upgrade. Really it's just running the ship light to the extreme. Still fine tuning it. Usually I think to get the points worth I like to get multiple attacks a turn so running this project decoy is very odd to me.

I played one Epic tournament and it was fun but very long. I was undefeated but lost to the person I beat my first round, because my second game went to time. I was facing a player that had no epic ships and was a newer player and he was taking forever to do everything causing our game to go to time.

You know....I just thought of something. I think that the reason why the epic ships are too weak....is because the whole point of each game is to kill it. I mean.....each side gets 300 pts to mess with. That's a lot of firepower you can get at that point level. Nothing can really withstand firepower of that magnitude. Maybe the issue is the focus on destroying the large ships?

What if the solution is various missions with goals that are NOT about destroying the other capital ship? At that point, the epic ships become pretty powerful weapons, but maybe you aren't focusing your entire effort on them? If you focus too much on the enemy big ship, they end up winning the mission by focusing on the task. Then again, if you can work both ends and can kill their epic ship, you might do well towards reducing their ability to complete the mission. Make epic about doing something other than destroying each other and I think you will see the epic ships really shine.

Problem with getting a huge ship with a mine is the movement template doesnt trigger anything, so only the ship's final placement will matter. Unless you're deathrain dumping it out the front it'd be pretty hard to get him to land on it, since if he turned he can easily dodge it. They turn sharper than you might think.

It was this post that made me think of it. I was going to say that before the Raider came out, I made a mission based on my space station that I built. The station didn't move, but the CR-90 needed to close the distance on it. So did the Y-wings and X-wings. I played a few games and the Proximity Mines were really important. It made zones that no one really wanted to go through. I think in one, the CR-90 said "Dang the Torpedoes" and went through them, but it did take damage.

So, if you are playing something that is more than just rushing at each other and shooting, I think mines really works in epic. I was designing a mission that was about the CR-90 trying to run a blockade. So, it started on the short end of a 6x3 table and needed to get off the other side. I gave the Imperials starting on either side of the last 3 feet on the long end to represent them coming in and trying to close the gap. Using mines in that mission is great in trying to block the CR-90 from getting through.

Aside from having a spacestation be the focus though that needs to die what would you do in this game for general games and not scenario-based? Kinda cant do the king of the hill type stuff to take over a mining facility if you are on it for X turns when majority of ships cant stand still lol. An odd CTF type map would be weird too....though might be interesting....hmm i might have to try to come up with that one.

The only nonscenario nondeathmatch game ive seen people play is deathrace. Wouldnt really work with huge ships lol.

Could simply have a base in the middle of the board thats dormant. One side is attempting to reclaim it, the other is attempting to take it. Flying into it by accident (tractor beams HOO!!) is fatal, even for a huge ship. If either side has 3+ ships within range 1-2 of the station and no enemy ships in the same range for 2 turns, they win. Puts a lot more emphasis on blockade strats and such because if you can keep them from getting a ship in range you win that way rather than destruction. Which would make the huge ships rather important because theyre NOT easy to fly around and not crash into, also since they can 1shot any ship they run into.

Station is a 6" wide template and you cannot shoot over the center 3" (marked by a circle) while the outer 3" is obstructed with 2 bonus dice.

Scenarios for Epic:

1) Classic death match - we know this one

2) blockade run - one side needs to cross off the other side of the map with X amount of points or ships

3) capture mission - capture key ship while other side tries to prevent it

4) ???

Didn't say I was good at writing these scenarios, just that we needed something beyond scenario 1. And yes, heychadwick has it right. The big ship is a big target and 200-300 points comes screaming in on them. Hard to defend anything against that.

I think you can do things like the blockade run. Use the same rules. Play long ways on 6x3. Big ship needs to get off the board. Yes, it is about killing one of the big ships, but it is still a bit different. Blockaders start on their half on the 3 ft of long edges.

You can also do some sort of capture the cargo missions. So, place X many cargo containers around the board. I'd say at least 3, but have it an odd number. You can come up with all sorts of different rules. Can small based ships grab the cargo? Or is it only large or epic based ships? Could be a reason to use large based ships in Epic games. If you allow small based ships to grab cargo, it might be better to have more cargo...such as 5.

Escort missions are also an option. Have a large based ship that needs to be escorted...or maybe the Senator's Shuttle? Give it enough of a defensive stats that it can't be smashed too easily, but reward getting to it fast and protecting it. Make sure you can have protect actions for the shuttle. Or....maybe make a new epic sized cargo ship that has energy and can redo shields. Give it a simple dial and action options. It can go fast and get less energy for rebuilding shields, or it can slow down and stock up on energy. Give it the Reinforce option, too.

Space Station destruction is also an option. Make a template for that. I've done some rules for mine, but I'm sure it could use some testing. I broke mine into quarters and had it rotate one quarter each round for spinning. I just thought it was a cool rule.

I'm sure there are other ones we could do, but I can't think of any at this moment.

If we did some of these missions, then Scum could even do them, which is cool. You don't have to have an epic ship for them, but they can help.

To avoid someone min-maxing for the mission, you could even randomize the mission based on what you have. Of course, that puts Scum out of it until they get an Epic ship. You can't do a blockade run without one.....unless you go with the Senator's Shuttle stats for an epic blockade runner. It would be weaker when compared to other epic ships, but it would be free and allow Scum to have more points for other stuff.

Scenarios for Epic:

1) Classic death match - we know this one

2) blockade run - one side needs to cross off the other side of the map with X amount of points or ships

3) capture mission - capture key ship while other side tries to prevent it

4) ???

Didn't say I was good at writing these scenarios, just that we needed something beyond scenario 1. And yes, heychadwick has it right. The big ship is a big target and 200-300 points comes screaming in on them. Hard to defend anything against that.

it would be kind of cool if there was a scenario selection much in the same way as Armada. Each pick a single Blue Red and Yellow scenario to go with their fleet. Person with initiative gets to chose go second and have opponent select one of heir scenarios or go first and select one of your opponents scenarios.