it is a simple easy to pick up easy to play game. But like a lot of games like that, theres a peak in play where it transitions from easy-going "fly casual" to hardcore blood n guts tournament play. Unfortunately since most of that is flying skills its kinda difficult to phase between the two lol.

For 40k its more about knowing what rules counter what than it is tactics. I can play against a lesser player (sorry cant think of a way to say that nicer) and still have fun and not curbstomp because i brought a weird list, banking more on focus firing and knowing what to take out first than i am trying to make the ultimate unkillable unit and just banking on not rolling 1s. I ... kinda cant do that in xwing because 80% of the game is flying straight lol

I try to play the same vs. any opponent. New players get advice, but only if they want it. Some don't, so I respect that.

A new-ish player played against me six or seven times, once every week or so, finally beating me during a weekly X-wing night. He was elated! He actually smiled in relief and said "That's the first time I ever won against you."

Gotta say, I felt a little proud of him.

If they set up their ship backwards in their starting area, it gets flown off the map. Haven't seen the guy since lol.

This is good good for your community and lgs because

I get a free win. My opponent's fun doesn't matter, only mine. As long as I'm polite and follow the rules.

In fact, there is no rule that allows me to allow you to flip your ship around/change your dial even if I wanted to. That would be breaking the rules, which is cheating.

The more posts I read of PGS the more I cement my opinion that they are a very sad individual that probably doesn't have a lot going for them. So much so that beating someone who doesn't know the rules very well means something to them. If they are just trolling then that reinforces my opinion. I have never blocked anyone on any forum, but this cancer is bad for my enjoyment. I hope your life improves PGS, I really do. Winning a game means nothing.

Now to the point of the thread. I think as has been said before playing intentionally bad is rude and I don't believe they will learn anything from it. I think being loose with the rules ie doing actions etc slowly easing it back after a few games until they get the hang of it. If you play like PGS you won't get anyone new to play at all.

If they set up their ship backwards in their starting area, it gets flown off the map. Haven't seen the guy since lol.

This is good good for your community and lgs because

I get a free win. My opponent's fun doesn't matter, only mine. As long as I'm polite and follow the rules.

In fact, there is no rule that allows me to allow you to flip your ship around/change your dial even if I wanted to. That would be breaking the rules, which is cheating.

The more posts I read of PGS the more I cement my opinion that they are a very sad individual that probably doesn't have a lot going for them. So much so that beating someone who doesn't know the rules very well means something to them. If they are just trolling then that reinforces my opinion. I have never blocked anyone on any forum, but this cancer is bad for my enjoyment. I hope your life improves PGS, I really do.

I'd also like to clarify that in casual games I'll give people advice and make them power lists with what they have. But not a tournament game.

Yesterday I took a list to play at the flgs and ended up playing a guy with 5 games under his belt. He had the Inquisitor and 4 FOs against my Wedge, Keyan and Hobbie. During the game I explained how and why I moved. Wedge with BB8 and PTL, Keyan with Hera. Showed him the cards. After the game we talked about set-up and that his squad was better flying tight rather than spread out over the board. We covered some other stuff as well.

Anybody with any time playing this game is going to beat a new player. The big difference between beating someone and trouncing them is attitude. Play them as you would a regular opponent but cut them slack regarding forgotten actions and pilot abilities. It's the difference of being beaten by Paul Heaver and PARAGOOMBASLAYER.

Do a post mortem of the game. What was good, what wasn't and how to change or improve other things. Beating someone 100-0 isn't necessarily a trouncing unless you get up and do your happy dance.

If they set up their ship backwards in their starting area, it gets flown off the map. Haven't seen the guy since lol.

This is good good for your community and lgs because

I get a free win. My opponent's fun doesn't matter, only mine. As long as I'm polite and follow the rules.

In fact, there is no rule that allows me to allow you to flip your ship around/change your dial even if I wanted to. That would be breaking the rules, which is cheating.

Why waste your time? That win is worth nothing. Even in your whacked out world where non-event wins have any value, a win over a completely hapless opponent can't have any value to you.

Please stop feeding the troll.

Yesterday I took a list to play at the flgs and ended up playing a guy with 5 games under his belt. He had the Inquisitor and 4 FOs against my Wedge, Keyan and Hobbie. During the game I explained how and why I moved. Wedge with BB8 and PTL, Keyan with Hera. Showed him the cards. After the game we talked about set-up and that his squad was better flying tight rather than spread out over the board. We covered some other stuff as well.

Anybody with any time playing this game is going to beat a new player. The big difference between beating someone and trouncing them is attitude. Play them as you would a regular opponent but cut them slack regarding forgotten actions and pilot abilities. It's the difference of being beaten by Paul Heaver and PARAGOOMBASLAYER.

Do a post mortem of the game. What was good, what wasn't and how to change or improve other things. Beating someone 100-0 isn't necessarily a trouncing unless you get up and do your happy dance.

But you Didn't tell him to take basic ties instead for a mini swarm did you...

As a recent new player to X-Wing I actually didn't mind what list I faced. As it happens my opponents never took a tier-1 list but that was their choice.

What I appreciated is not the downgrading of their list but the attitude where they took the time to explain what ships they had, what the upgrades did, what the synergy was and how, in general, they intended to fly them. They ensured I didn't miss simple things like actions and some, before dials, would talk me through the thought process. Now they never said, 'Poe is going to do a 2 bank so prepare for it', that would have been annoying. It was more like; 'this x-wing will want to try and get behind your TIE somehow, you want to do your best to make sure that doesn't happen. You can either try and avoid it, or because you move first you can try and predict what it will do and force it to bump you.'

This made my first few games educational and enjoyable as I felt like I was actually playing the game rather than having no clue what was going on.

first off against people who are new to the game if I know before hand I will bring out a different list as throwing newbies against my normal phantom OL and soontir is just plain mean.

next what I like to do with people who are more new to the game is at the beginning of the turns before we do any moves I try to talk to them about some of the decisions I might need or if say I have a stress ship will point out that a ship has certain green manoeuvres. I also allow for any mistake of left or right because lets face it we all do it.

I think till someone has at minimum 10 game sunder the belt you don't want to be throwing ships with lots of actions of massive arc dodging into the mix as it just gives newer players to much to think about and that doesn't help.

I think the first few games should be about patience explaining things and just more about having a good time with the other person then about winning. That's how it was for my first few games

I have backup lists that are more casual.

Nobody gains anything from you playing your competitive list against a new player. They certainly didn't have a great time and you didn't really get any useful or valid practice out of it.

I think the OP is going wrong where he sticks to playing whatever list he's trying to get good with at the moment. You have to adapt to your opponent's level and do something more experimental.

Yesterday I took a list to play at the flgs and ended up playing a guy with 5 games under his belt. He had the Inquisitor and 4 FOs against my Wedge, Keyan and Hobbie. During the game I explained how and why I moved. Wedge with BB8 and PTL, Keyan with Hera. Showed him the cards. After the game we talked about set-up and that his squad was better flying tight rather than spread out over the board. We covered some other stuff as well.

Anybody with any time playing this game is going to beat a new player. The big difference between beating someone and trouncing them is attitude. Play them as you would a regular opponent but cut them slack regarding forgotten actions and pilot abilities. It's the difference of being beaten by Paul Heaver and PARAGOOMBASLAYER.

Do a post mortem of the game. What was good, what wasn't and how to change or improve other things. Beating someone 100-0 isn't necessarily a trouncing unless you get up and do your happy dance.

But you Didn't tell him to take basic ties instead for a mini swarm did you...

Nope. Only talked about what he had on the table.

Personally, I like having a chance to play a list that isn't all tournament hard. If I play a nasty list and full tilt at someone new, I'm just going to crush them. I'll pull out something that's not as hard, but not a push over, either. I play a full game with them. I'll remind them of the things they forget to do. If they keep forgetting, I might not let them skip as they need to learn. After a turn is done and I think they did something wrong, I will suggest what they could've done better. After the game, if there is time, I'll talk about his list and how he flew it. I'll talk strategy and tactics.

To me, these things are important:

• growing a community of gamers that like to have fun and be decent to each other.
• letting someone learn the game without getting their face smashed in.
• give them a real challenge and not too easy a game.
• go over what happened in the game so they actually learn. If they don't learn, they won't be valued opponents in the future.

If you are hung up on wanting to get practice in with your nasty list, then look for a different opponent.

So the community's consensus is you want to beat them, but just barely?

This really isn't hard. All you need to do is quick and dirty figure your handicap.

1) If you are a veteran and they are brand new, give them a 12 point starting bonus. Means they can add a Z-95 or Academy Tie to their list.

2) If you are using a top tier list and they are picking sub optimal, add another 12 points. They can add another Z, academy, or maybe buff up to an X-Wing, Interceptor, or Kihrahxz.

If you win, encourage them to try again, give them another 12 points.

If they win, congratulate them, tell them they are too good for that big of a bonus, adjust the handicap down by 12.

You don't have to fly sub-optimally, you will get a good match, you will eventually find the appropriate range band, regardless of how bad they are. I can get about a 50/50 WL ratio against my son with a 36 point handicap in his favor just as an example.

Golfers have been doing this for years. My brother is a scratch golfer, I'm closer to a bogey golfer. When we step onto the course together the question of who is better has already been decided. We are essentially playing against our handicap. Whoever plays better compared to their skill level is the winner. Challenge yourselves to get better!

In addition to having a less competitive list, try to keep things simple and abilities rather straightforward. Sure, performing an action that triggers a pilot's ability which allows so-and-so to react which forces the opponent's fighter to take a token is fun, but it could be a bit overwhelming to follow for someone who's still trying to learn basic movement. A couple small combos may be ok to let them get a glimpse of the possibilities, but remember that a training game's purpose is to help the trainee learn, NOT for the trainer to stroke his own ego by showing off how diabolically clever he is.

Okay guys, this all sounds great but...

What are we teaching five year old kids here? I mean, these are all noble ideals and great ideas for procedure, but it sounds like you're going to be teaching children with strategies such as these. Gentle reminders? Being considerate of feelings? The last time I taught someone how to play X-Wing they were a grown adult and if I'd had to act like such a milksop as described here, I'd have given up.

I think if you're a grown up, you shouldn't have to worry about things like how to not stomp newbies. If other grown ups can't handle losing while they gain experience then I don't want to bother with them.

So the community's consensus is you want to beat them, but just barely?

Mmm, no not at all. You shouldn't be trying to beat them, you should be trying to ensure they have an enjoyable game and their understanding of the rules/strategy is increased afterwards.

Ideally you experimented with something and learned a little bit too.

Who gives a flying **** if you won or lost? What's that worth?

its more about teaching them the span the game has to offer and not just hammer them with the current meta until they can deal with it.

I have faced people that play at a tournament level that simply do not know how to adapt to an odd list. When they see a list that isnt a typical "meta" list they pretty much auto lose because they dont know what to expect or how to handle it. Theres a reason i like playing such lists lol it throws so many people off its hilarious.

im known for running completely unorthodox crap all the time. I ran a bumper-han with 2 Awings a few weeks ago lol people were flabbergasted at wth i was doing and didnt know how to react, even though the proper response would have been simple if it was Oicunn and an ace or two ties. Im also the guy in the area that came up with the expert handling decimator, nobody ever thought of that until i did it and wow that was funny lol.

If you teach people to adapt rather than simply what counters this specific list, they become vastly better in the end. Come wave9, hotr, and even imp vets the meta may shift dramatically anyway so any meta knowledge would be moot.

Also, winning isnt everything. Only time losing irritates me is when the luck was just so bad i didnt have a chance. When Oicunn takes 8 damage from 2 ships in the first round (w/o rerolls) and the 2 crits i take are bumps = damage and damage = faceup so i lose him in less than 2 rounds (since the 2nd ship didnt even fire), theres literally nothing that could have helped that situation. That was just pure bad luck. Or a defender with stealth device at range3 through a rock and a focus taking 3 damage and not using the focus token...again thats just sheer bad luck. THAT is the only time i get irritated when i lose when its not because i got bested but because my fistfull of dice went full blanks lol.

The last dogfight i had ended in such a way, though i wasnt on the receiving end. Talk about an unsatisfying way to finish off a 1hp Guri was at range3 with 3 dice when he had autos and a focus lol. I did 2 damage, he auto dodges 1, rolled 4 blanks >.< even though i wasnt on the receiving end of that i wasnt pleased with that outcome.

I think if you're a grown up, you shouldn't have to worry about things like how to not stomp newbies.

There's a difference between losing and getting stomped. Getting stomped is seldom going to be enjoyable for anyone and is unlikely to do much to encourage someone to try the game again let alone buy it.

So the goal is to help them become comfortable with the game, and enjoy playing it.

You should still be trying to win. It's a game, that's the objective. To do any less is to give a dishonest experience

Which is why you handicap yourself in the squad building phase (the simpler the list the better; easier to learn from) and then do your darnedest to make it work on the table

Okay guys, this all sounds great but...

What are we teaching five year old kids here? I mean, these are all noble ideals and great ideas for procedure, but it sounds like you're going to be teaching children with strategies such as these. Gentle reminders? Being considerate of feelings? The last time I taught someone how to play X-Wing they were a grown adult and if I'd had to act like such a milksop as described here, I'd have given up.

I think if you're a grown up, you shouldn't have to worry about things like how to not stomp newbies. If other grown ups can't handle losing while they gain experience then I don't want to bother with them.

You clearly either didn't bother to read or fail to understand the majority of posts on here. It's not about people not being able to handle losing, it's about making sure the other person is able to learn. It's about letting them figure things out without overwhelming them with every single possible trick out there. There will be plenty of time for that, but we must all learn to walk before we can run.

Just as an example, imagine if Obi-Wan, instead of having Luke train on the remote, had pulled out his own lightsaber, told Luke to come at him, and then simply cut him down. Not only would the series have been much shorter, but Luke wouldn't have learned anything and Obi-Wan would come off as somewhat of a sadistic jerk. (Though now I'm picturing him in some weird version of the Monty Python "Defending Yourself Against Fresh Fruit" sketch. XD)

You should still be trying to win. It's a game, that's the objective. To do any less is to give a dishonest experience

Which is why you handicap yourself in the squad building phase (the simpler the list the better; easier to learn from) and then do your darnedest to make it work on the table

Exactly, though for handicapping, I still recommend you give the points to them to push their list past 100 points. It has the side benefit of giving new players an additional ship which for training purposes is better in the long run.

I would NOT go past 100 unless that's the local norm

Stick to the game as normal so you don't force them into habits that don't fly in normal situations

Stick to the game you're teaching, fly simpler and less-than-immensely powerful ships yourself (vanilla X's are gold for this) and try to win as you would any other game

flying less than 100pts would be better than more. Even if you just have them make a list like normal and then slap an Academy on top, theyre still going to get used to having an extra ship than normal.

I would NOT go past 100 unless that's the local norm

Stick to the game as normal so you don't force them into habits that don't fly in normal situations

Stick to the game you're teaching, fly simpler and less-than-immensely powerful ships yourself (vanilla X's are gold for this) and try to win as you would any other game

I'm not aware of different rules that apply to additional ships.

The big difference is you are talking about "eyeballing" a subpar list to get them a decent match. What I'm suggesting allows the experienced player to fly whatever list they want, how they want. The handicap for the new player is ratched up and down accordingly.

The 100 point barrier is pointless in this regard as you are playing casual untimed. Should a newbie decide to learn during a tournament, well then, that's their choice.

A single Z is not going to help a novice against a standard competitive list

I'd anything it just hurts their chances by giving them more to have to think about with little to no gain, as the Z is perhaps the most worthless filler I've ever had the displeasure of working with

Sure Paul'd disagree but we're not showing Mr heaver the ropes over here