Let me preface this post by first of all saying that I'm not a great player, not even good. I'd probably say I'm average at best.

Anyway over the last couple of weeks in various threads I've seen people mention that one should never 'stomp newbies' and I really want to explore what's meant by that.

In the places I play at now and have played at in the past there seems to be a steady stream of players that are new to the game and so plenty of opportunity to play against them. I certainly would never want to put anyone off playing the game and so I'm always friendly, offer advice and when appropriate give encouragement and / or congratulations. However when I go to the store to play the list I'll have will be whichever list I'm trying to get good with and what I hope will be competitive. So that being the case how far do you take not 'stomping newbies'?

Is what I'm already doing enough or should I play badly (on purpose), by making silly moves, not spending tokens at the best times or even forgetting to take actions altogether? The last thing I want to do is beat them super easily as I'm sure it's demoralising for them and frankly boring for me, but unless I play badly on purpose (which is a waste of my gaming night, at least with regard to getting better) then it's often difficult not to.

Thoughts?

I think there's a line between the two.

I think intentionally throwing the game is rude, insulting and unlikely to get the person involved in the game. But on the other hand, completely destroying them is about the same.

So if you're playing someone new, maybe they know the rules maybe they don't... I'd play in such a way that it's not a complete blowout but not apparent you're throwing the game.

This could be admittedly a fine line to walk.

For one thing I'd make sure and explain the rules to them, and depending on how much experience they have offer advice either before or after they take an action.

For example someone who's played 2-3 times before, so they got a good grasp of the basic rules. I'd say things like 'ok in this case you really want to do X rather than Y' and explain why they should pick X.

But perhaps they've played a dozen games or so, so they're still learning but know how to play, in that case I may say the same thing but do it after they had picked Y.

One other thing, is while you shouldn't take bad moves you could take less than ideal ones. Try to shoot from range 2 or get shot from range 2, rather than trying to close to range 1, or stay at range 3, for example.

For me, if I knew I was playing someone really new, I wouldn't play a tournament level list against them. I'd play something that I had kicking around in the back of my head. Or I'd throw together a B-list to try against them. Something that wasn't tournament level and play to have fun.

No, it doesn't help you that you are trying to get good with a certain list, but hopefully it helps grow the community.

If they set up their ship backwards in their starting area, it gets flown off the map. Haven't seen the guy since lol.

If I am playing someone that is newer I make a terrible list, (play 90 points or no upgrade cards) or I play something I think is fun but might not be something ever to run in a tonry so they have a much better chance at winning. Also remember don't be a jerk and offer advice when you can if its welcome. Use those games to practice movement and perfect flying over winning.

I don't intentionally make mistakes like in your last paragraph. That does the exact opposite and gives a new player a false sense of how they are playing. Personally I take one of two approaches depending on the "newness" of the player:

Brand new player who is literally still learning the game:

Against this player, I'm a teacher, not an opponent. I will not "throw the game" by being silly or making foolish mistakes (intentionally, anyway, I always make some dumb mistake). I will help walk a player through each phase, emphasizing stuff like "move, then action, then next ship."

What I won't do in this game is bring a super competitive list or one I know like the back of my hand. Look, it's a teaching game. Chances are, I'm gonna win. Why do I need to throw trip U-boats or Super Dash at them to prove it? Against these players I will play something I'm not familiar with or try out a bit. For example, I suck at formation flying, so maybe I will play 5 Khiraxz to sharpen those skills. I will not play a list designed to lose, but at the same time I won't toss together an overly strong list.

New player who knows the rules well, but not too many games under their belt:

Same as above, but less tips unless I see a continuing issue, and the lists will start to get better. Here is where I will play lists that I enjoy a lot, but may not be meta defining. I may bring out variations on tournament lists, but I would rather test that against more experienced opponents, rather than newbies.

Remember, teaching the game is about list building as much as maneuvers and actions. I will play a slightly better list and show it to a newer player to point out synergies so they start thinking that way and can up their list building ability.

There's actually a third category, new players playing in a tournament:

Tough luck. I may help out with some reminders and I won't be a jerk, but I will be playing more people than you. I need to be at the top of my game and using the list that I am best with. Sorry, if that means I table you 100-0, I will talk it over after the game, but this is a tournament. I will probably still give you some breaks, but not after multiple mistakes of the same kind (I may let you take a missed action, but next turn remember).

At the Fathers Day event, I flew a rebel squad consisting of an A, B, X, Y and Z. All generics with an Ion turret on the Y and proton rockets on the X-Wing. The idea was to have a straight forward list that introduced all of the available actions (minus cloaking, bombs, and SLAM) as well as ion effects and secondary weapons.

Despite not being very competitive, it was extremely fun to fly!

What Heychadwick said. Don't drop some S-list tourney list like palp aces on them. Also be forgiving let them take missed actions or change actions if something is super obviously a mistake to you. If something is super close like maybe just out of arc or just maybe hitting as asteroid or not I always rule in their favor. Also give them advice during the game and after the game to help them improve. Don't go easy on them and just throw the game though play to the best of your ability. No one ever learns by being babied. Losing games is sometimes the best teacher.

I played a new player yesterday -- as in had just bought into the game that day -- with a list I'd never tried before and wasn't all that sure of. And, well, it worked better than I thought and it wasn't much of a match. I didn't gloat, didn't rub it in, and made sure to point out things he could have done differently (he set up Guri WAAAAAAAY away from the rest of the ships when her ability wants her in close, he had an Accuracy Corrector on Zuckuss, things that just come from not being very familiar with the game). I tried to be as encouraging as possible.

"Crush your enemies. See them driven before you. Hear the lamentations of their women." - heard this from something???

If they set up their ship backwards in their starting area, it gets flown off the map. Haven't seen the guy since lol.

This is good good for your community and lgs because

I technically did this to a newer player on Saturday.

In my defense, I had a squad made and ready to go and had been waiting for 2 hours to play before I got matched with him. And it was my first live game in 6 months.

Besides being new his squad was very unoptimized and his green dice were horrible. I did give him a free kill on my damaged xwing when I did a risky kturn that barely went off the board.

I think the key is more the focus of the gameplay. Be friendly and give pointers if they want them. You can win, but you can win and inspire someone to get better or you can win and make them feel like quitting forever. If you play a new play and just take it as an opportunity to beat them to a pulp and take your win... that would be stomping.

For me, if I knew I was playing someone really new, I wouldn't play a tournament level list against them. I'd play something that I had kicking around in the back of my head. Or I'd throw together a B-list to try against them. Something that wasn't tournament level and play to have fun.

No, it doesn't help you that you are trying to get good with a certain list, but hopefully it helps grow the community.

Playing newbies is a great time to break out all those models you wish were tournament competitive.

You know, like using X-Wings in X-Wing.

It also helps to just teach them how to play as they do. If they're the type to take suggestions, help them select actions. Also, if they do something generally inadvisable with their dials, tell them afterwards and show them how a different move would have potentially been better.

Bring an experimental list. It's as easy as that. You won't have to play dumb. You'll likely benefit from the game with some at least lower impact testing.

I do things simply when facing a new player:

- If no tournaments are on the horizon, I'll default to an experimental list (or a list for fun). I always keep one of those on hand.

- If a tournament is on the horizon, I'll give them a choice between a tournament grade list or an experimental list.

Some new players actually want to see what a good list looks like or how the game is so much more when you play against an experienced player. A well played Soontir, Whisper or IG-88 can actually open up combos that a new player never even considered before and get him twice as excited (if he's that kind of guy). I don't play the usual "meta" either, so showing how other stuff can be good is not a bad idea either.

As for the game itself, I'll do a whole lot of things that I would not do during a competition like remind them of optional abilities, actions, allow them to change their mind about a few things, etc. This is a fun night and my opponent is learning, so why not?

That being said, whether I am playing an experimental list or a competitive one, I will always play at my optimal level. I consider it a mark of respect to actually want to defeat your opponent.

If I'm playing a new player I usually straight up joust (even more then I usually do) and don't try to setup blocks. I go after them aggressively and try not to worry about setting up favorable circumstances for myself.

theres one guy in particular at my flgs that prefers to play against me even though i usually crush him every game, because i dont bring the netlist tournament stuff against him and he doesnt have the funds to bring such lists himself.

Hes getting a lot better but still hasnt beaten me. Basically all i do is i throw curveballs at him, things that a well-rounded player would recognize and adapt to and probably wouldnt even phase once they notice it. But i would never bring palpmobile against him lol.

He says that he doesnt feel outmatched against me, even when i run a more mean list than usual and hasnt beaten me yet. But when he faces the usual Chopper build, uboats, or imperial aces he feels outclassed because those builds involve owning a LOT of kits he cant get yet. Though he has gotten very **** close to winning a few times lol so he is improving. I dont steamroll him, its usually down to 1 fighter and im just a vastly better dogfighter so i win in the end anyway.

I wont offer help unless hes about to do something insanely stupid (which is getting rarer each game) or he asks though. You learn through failure more than you do through victory....but im not going to let you fly off the board because you forgot you jump the maneuver template for a moment instead of moving to the end of it like other tabletop games and tape measures lol

I was playing at a fun tournament (double asteroids) at the weekend and round 1 I was against a guy who had only played 4 or 5 times before and was running Dengar/Boba, beautifully painted. I had a new headhunter list I thought would be fun to try. Long story short he landed Dengar on an asteroid round 2, losing a shield. He then got killed by 3 headhunters and an e-wing all shooting at range 3 through an asteroid. He only got 1 evade on around 14 evade dice.

We still had a great time as after that one finished quickly, we went again. This time he'd learned and played much better and I enjoyed watching him arc dodge the Z95s, now he knew what their moves were (even when somehow his use of expose worked). He then went on to show huge improvement round on round and finished having really enjoyed the day.

I usually try to handicap myself in the list-building phase against newer players.

Sounds to me like I need to come up with and carry around a list containing ships I rarely see and use it as an excuse to learn them. Everything else I'm doing already.

Thanks for the advice guys :-)

Sounds to me like I need to come up with and carry around a list containing ships I rarely see and use it as an excuse to learn them.

While you could do that and doing it may be worth the time. I wouldn't see you need to do it. If the point is to demo the game or get the person interested in X-Wing, most any list could do.

That said if you were going to do such a thing I'd consider something highly thematic like a mini-swarm of some sort or maybe list with X and Y's in it.

I think the term stomping newbies might be a little off the mark. I think what happens is new players lose because they are new and don't quite know all the tricks yet but they have this sense of what their ships can do when used properly and thus feel as if they lost horribly when really, that's just X-Wing. When two really skilled players fly against each other the results will be the same. One player will win by capitalizing on the others mistake and the result looks much the same. I don't think many people are out there actively looking to turn away new gaming prospects by humiliating them, I think that's more of a by-product of untrammeled internet access than anything else. I think that if you forget what the forum says and just approach people in a normal manner things will turn out okay no matter how the game gets played.

The main thing for the super new players is forgiving every mistake. If they forget their action, or if they forget to spend a focus, etc, let them know and let them do it. The tolerance for those things starts to tighten up as they get their basics on how to make sure their dial is actually the piece they intend to use (independent of if it's what they actually wanted to do).

You're effectively guiding them through the process moreso than competing against them. As they're starting to migrate into playing their own lists, it's still fair to be more appropriately casual with them. I typically pack a goof-off list for those sorts of matches, which allows me to indulge in flying ships that would otherwise make my skin crawl trying to fly them in a more competitive context.

I also aim to make that goof list absent of more complicated equipment (I fly scum, so that can be tricky sometimes) - but generally I find those matches to still be very engaging for me as I'm struggling to fly ships I'm less experienced with, effectively bringing me closer to their level.